Black Tang Census!!

[salt-rookie]

I have heard MANY times that Black Tangs are VERY rare...but it seem that I know too many people who have them for them to be that incredibly rare. I'm just wondering how many people here actually own a Black Tang right now?

I have 1.

Thanks,
Phil

[thor32766]

I have one.

[-jjla-]

I have 1.

[Village Idiot]

I don't have one, but I see them from time to time in the LFS's. Maybe you're thinking of the truly rare Gem Tang?

[zemuron114]

black tangs are rare even if everyone has one. Only collected from christmas island and never in great numbers. People now adays know to many people who know people who can get them good deals on certain things etc etc. They have actually gone down in numbers recently....

[triggerfish1976]

Maybe Zemeron can confirm this but I find Black Tang availability to be seasonal. You can generally find them readily available in certain months of the year and then not see them for several months. As far as their "rarity" I wouldn't put them in the class of Gem Tangs or Conspic Angels because stores can usually obtain them without any real connections.

[zemuron114]

Every fish has a season. Summer months the babies drop and can then be collected. The average LFS usually can't get one unless they order a lot to make it worth the while of the wholesaler. Most wholesalers use these to move mass amounts of other fish (especially to other wholesalers)

I have a LFS that didn't get one for years until i sent him one. lol And hes been in the business for 15 or so years. The high end stores with connections get them readily mainly because they can bring in a 10-20 box order with no problems. Its the small mom and pop stores or the small ones that will have a hard time getting them. They are rare no doubt about it, but like triggerfish said they have a season when a lot come in and then none for a while and it repeats. In the wild they are much more rare then gem tangs! :)

[Goodwood]

Ive seen them on wholesalers lists fairly often, just always pretty large in size.

[kimboslice]

1 here

[salt-rookie]

THat's 4 so far? My Black Tang is very small....perhaps 2" from the tip of the nose to the caudal pendical.

[jda]

I have one. It sat at the LFS for 3 or 4 months before I took it home out of sympathy.

[chrisaggie]

They aren't that rare. Many of our locals shops have them many times a year. A couple were about 10"

[fishyz]

I have actually never seen a black tang at any of the lfs's around here. Any pics of your black tangs?

[flinster]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10157592#post10157592 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Goodwood
Ive seen them on wholesalers lists fairly often, just always pretty large in size.
I agree. A local wholesaler here that rarely gets unique fish has them often, but they are usually pretty large.

[salt-rookie]

So....Large ones are rarer than small ones? Is this generally the case?

[Red Sea Purple Tang]

It took our LFS approx. 3 months to get one around 1.5-2 inches. They could get bigger ones a lot faster.

[jda]

Smaller ones are usually harder to find that large ones.

For a while, you could get a dinner plate sized one pretty easily whereas anything under 4" was at a premium.

They are relatively easy to get for the better LFS if you can wait a few months. They are nearly impossible for the medium/small sized store without any connections or large shipments.

[-jjla-]

A LFS near my place has had one for about 3 weeks now. They have had 4 in the last 3 months. All were less then 3.5".

-jjla-

[edwing206]

Need pics!

[thelostrican]

i have one

[blacktip0000]

my local wholesaler gets them in about once every week or so they are like ten inches though but they always have 6-10 of them every week and they sell out every time they come in. i am about to order one of the black tangs for my reef tank in about another week.

[jda]

I would really love the tanks in atl if there is a market for 6-10 ten inch black tangs a week. I will bet that they are awesome. I have a 5-6" one in a 7' 210G and it is going to be too big before long.

[copps]

I own two... one larger one (bought at about three inches, now around six inches) I've owned for a few years and a smaller guy (now about two inches)I bought last year in a separate system. This is the larger one...

http://xs511.xs.to/xs511/07051/black_tang_big2.jpg (http://xs.to)


And the smaller one...
http://xs512.xs.to/xs512/07086/black_tang_little.jpg (http://xs.to)

They are not "very rare", but they are rare relative to most other tangs in the industry. If you asked your LFS to order you 500 yellow tangs they could have them in in a few days, but you need to know where to look to find even one or two black tangs. The LA wholesalers have been getting them recently (one has them in stock right now... surprise surprise dinner plates!), but they offer them at 50% to 100% more than Hawaiian wholesalers, basically because they're buying them from Hawaiian wholesalers at the same or a slightly reduced price similar to what your LFS would buy them for direct from Hawaii. All Christmas Island stuff goes through Hawaii (although a few shipments have gone direct to LA recently I've heard). About 500 or some other ridiculous number of flame angels will come for each black tang, so the wholesalers are usually picky about selling large numbers of them unless your getting alot of the other more common things, because that's exactly what they have to do ordering from Christmas Island. I've heard from a person who's dove the Line Islands that Christmas Island itself has a low number of black tangs (either naturally or because its been fished out), which may explain why the easiest black tangs to find are full grown, with the next most common size being the first year drops at about an inch or two... The other Line Islands are more populated with them according to him. I'm very surprised to see a wholesaler in Atlanta moving 6-10 black tangs a week when the largest of Hawaiian wholesalers doesn't move that many...

[blacktip0000]

i have noticed that the bigger black tangs have a blueish line running down the back and "copps" little black tang doesnt have the blue line why is the blue line there

[copps]

Yeah only the larger black tangs show the line, but it depends on mood it seems... usually mine does not show it, but in that photo it did... Here he is all black...
http://xs117.xs.to/xs117/07283/black_tang_large.jpg (http://xs.to)

And here he is again in the bottom of this photo... he's so black that he doesn't really show up in shots without the flash... you just really see what's behind him and his outline... and his surgeon... but that's what makes them cool to me... one of only a few jet black reef fish...
http://xs211.xs.to/xs211/07034/feeding1.jpg (http://xs.to)

[Bebo77]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10320269#post10320269 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by copps
Yeah only the larger black tangs show the line, but it depends on mood it seems... usually mine does not show it, but in that photo it did... Here he is all black...
http://xs117.xs.to/xs117/07283/black_tang_large.jpg (http://xs.to)

And here he is again in the bottom of this photo... he's so black that he doesn't really show up in shots without the flash... you just really see what's behind him and his outline... and his surgeon... but that's what makes them cool to me... one of only a few jet black reef fish...
http://xs211.xs.to/xs211/07034/feeding1.jpg (http://xs.to)


dude your tank is nuts.. more pics.....:eek1: :eek1: :eek1: :eek1: :eek1:

[Caleb Kruse]

Copps, have you ever won TOTM?

[edwing206]

Wow, amazing tangs. How much do they usually go for?

[GoingPostal]

LiveAquaria has a monster of a black tang but I couldn't see the green line at all, saw it at their frag swap but the pic I took to show friends turned out blurry. :(

[jda]

They aren't always green. Mine is kind of metallic and seems to mimic/reflect the lights on the tank. When I had MH on the tank it was blueish, now with VHO the line is kinda greenish white. The line is not present all of the time.

As far as price, you could pay all kinds of amounts. Our LFS gets them from a HI wholesaler, so they are cheaper than what you can find online most of the time. Online, I have seen them anywhere from $200-1500 but mostly $350-700.

[copps]

Thanks guys... Caleb my old 65 gallon won back in '04, but not this system... you could click on my red house to get linked to it...

edwing, these guys can show a large range in retail price due to many factors (including whether it was bought from LA or Hawaii)... but it's usually between $300 and $600 lately...

[copps]

jda we responded simultaneously... $1500?:D What vendor had the pleasure of posting that price?:)

To give you guys an idea, an LA wholesaler has dinner plates now for $275 WHOLESALE... and that's a whole lotta freight on those puppies who basically need their own box.

[jda]

About a year ago some site of a diver/collector. It has a US and Japanese price, so that probably tells you all that you need to know. :) The had dragon eels for $2500 too. You could probably throw it out as a statistical outlier.

If anybody wants a dinner plate sized one, please buy mine in a few years. I have a hybrid black to replace him that is still really small.

[salt-rookie]

I have a 2" Black Tang...I paid $300 for him, he is small and displays the green line at the base of the dorsal fin. I keep him in my fuge, right below my display in an "over/under configuration. The fuge is filled with pods and macroalgae. Here's a picture.

http://www.saltbucket.com/d/7675-2/Black+Tang.jpg (http://www.saltbucket.com/d/7673-1/Black+Tang.jpg)

I have another question.....Based on the Law of Supply and Demand....WHY don't smaller Black Tangs bring a higher price than the more readily available dinner plate sized ones? I'd like to find a dinner plate sized Black Tang!

[-jjla-]

I'm still not sure how you guy's get such good pics of your tangs, mine move around way too much. Oh well, a healthy tang is an active tang. Here's the best shot I have so far.

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k101/jjla_2006/saltwater/IMG_1791.jpg

-jjla-

[salt-rookie]

Is that a Goldflake Angel with yours? NICE Gorgonian!

[RGBMatt]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10320971#post10320971 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by salt-rookie
I have another question.....Based on the Law of Supply and Demand....WHY don't smaller Black Tangs bring a higher price than the more readily available dinner plate sized ones? I'd like to find a dinner plate sized Black Tang!

Larger fish are more expensive to hold and ship, so dealers often get in the habit of charging more for them. True supply/demand isn't always reflected in this.

[Caleb Kruse]

Copps do you have more info about your current tank anywhere. It's amazing!

[-jjla-]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10322423#post10322423 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by salt-rookie
Is that a Goldflake Angel with yours? NICE Gorgonian!

Yes it is, and thanks.

-jjla-

[jda]

Shipping is a killer on a 10" fish. That one fish will need to bear the entire shipping cost of a box whereas 20 fish could have split it. It seems like the larger black tangs sell, just much slower. The little ones go in a heartbeat. Mine was a special order that came in too big and was at the store for months without a buyer. A 2" one would have gone from the shipping box to a tank in less than an hour.

[copps]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10320971#post10320971 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by salt-rookie

I have another question.....Based on the Law of Supply and Demand....WHY don't smaller Black Tangs bring a higher price than the more readily available dinner plate sized ones? I'd like to find a dinner plate sized Black Tang!

The reasons for this are just as RGBMatt said... the supply of large black tangs is not that much greater than the tiny guys so you don't see enough to counteract the higher freight costs of large individuals... in other words, small black tangs are supplied to the market fairly regularly, although in small numbers.

There are very few fish where small specimens sell for more than larger specimens at all levels of the chain (not just a retailer marking a fish up because "hey... that's cool it's small and I could get more for it!"). A few I could think of right now are Hawaiian bandit angels (the angel shown in RGBMatt's avatar) and conspicillatus angels. With both of these angels the number of juveniles that enter the trade is VERY low compared to larger individuals... much lower than the percentage of small black tangs... for bandit angels 3-4" specimens go for ~50% more at the wholesaler level than 5" plus ones... tiny ones called "skunks" with a complete black back go for 2-3 times what the adults go for at the wholesale level and when that manifests itself at the retail level it's even more (For example, now in Japan a store has multiple bandits for sale... a 3.5 inch one for about $2100 and a 4.5 inch one for about $1300). Thankfully bandits are cheaper in the US, and I have one that's about 5 inches that I've had for over 16 months and a small 3.5 incher I got earlier this year for much less than that Japanese price! Not sure of the exact numbers on conspics as many of the small ones go to Asia and the US never sees them (surprise surprise). I got one of the smallest that came in in the first shipment this year around March or so and it was 6 inches! Liveaquaria offered one last week at 5 1/4" and said "rare small conspic!" or something like that... when true little guys come in they wholesale for almost double what the large guys do because like the bandits they're almost unheard of! To give you an idea of the Japanese market that same store has a 4 inch conspic for sale for less than the 3.5 inch bandit at just $2000! Ask any Hawaiian wholesaler and they'll tell you that the first question Asian wholesalers ask is... "you have bandits!?" :D Fortunately there are more Hawaiian collectors targeting these bandits with the use of deep diving technology, and the ones collected in the 200' range are still the stragglers coming up from the deep so overfishing should never be an issue... a bit long winded but I hope that helps explain it! It takes a major LOW supply to counteract the freight and holding costs to result in higher cost small fish...

jjla, is that a Christmas Island biotope with the black tang and goldflake? sweet! I'm getting some cool angels found at another Christmas Island (the Indian Ocean one!) very soon :)

Caleb, thanks again bud... I'll PM you...

Matt, have you ever collected any complete skunks? If I remember right you collected the one in your avatar? I love these fish and mine have been reef safe, although a bear to get adapted...

[RGBMatt]

I've caught some tiny bandits - including the one in my avatar photo. They're very seasonal - normally you only see them in the fall. I think they grow pretty fast when they're that small, and the "skunk face" stage is very short-lived.

[-jjla-]

jjla, is that a Christmas Island biotope with the black tang and goldflake? sweet! I'm getting some cool angels found at another Christmas Island (the Indian Ocean one!) very soon :)


I can't help it that some of the most beautiful fish come from Christmas Island. :D

-jjla-