Pick a pump for me

[fishymann]

Alright, i'm sort of planning another tank (getting price ideas and such).

The tanks is 20x20x24 and its going to be a reef tank. So flow is crucial. Right now i'm thinking 4 outputs all together, One on the top back (that will use a locline Y and have 2 outputs), another one on the top of the right side same as the other one (locline Y with 2 outputs), then two on the bottom of the tank same deal locline Y with 2 outputs on each. I'm thinking 3/4" pvc. To feed the close loop im thinking a corner overflow to surface skim with a single line going to the intake of the pump (also 3/4?)

So what would be a pump that would be able to do this? I'm thinking head hight would probably be around 5 feet give or take half a foot.

[Hop]

I wouldn't feed a closed loop from an overflow. Larger PVC is better. I would think 1" minimum. Maybe even with a 4-way or SS if your certain on a closed loop.

Also on a closed loop, the headloss is really not a big factor, especially with larger pipe, so the 5' head you mentioned really doesn't count:)

[fishymann]

Okay, thanks, so what would be a good setup for that size tank? since i want even current through out the entire thing?

[Hop]

In reading your post again I think maybe you just transposed a closed loop for a sump return, no biggie.

For a sump return pump, 3-5 times the system volume through a single 1" return or dual from a 3/4" returns. I would then run a closed loop to make up the rest of the flow or look into some nano streams on a controller:)

Just my opinion, many many ways to set up a tank:)

[fishymann]

We'll im looking to run this sumpless. Basically i figured i'd use the overflow so it would surface skim the tank and give me a way to get the water out of the tank.

[Hop]

ahh. Well running a closed loop fed from an overflow isn't a good idea. If your ATO or you fail to keep the water level high enough, it will starve the pump cause issues.

Just keeping one of the outputs agitating the surface should be enough to keep the film off the surface:)

I would run an eheim personally but the ocean runner pumps might be a good choice. Otherwise I like pan world and sequence, but I think they would be overkill for your application:)

[fishymann]

Alright thanks Hop i really apprecaite it. Would just one feed for the pump be okay or should i do more than one? Also about how many gph should it be rated at if i want about 4 outputs from it with out having to use any type of booster. Sorry for all the questions

[Hop]

One feed should be fine and keep it less complicated. Personally I would look into picking up a super squirt to run 4 outputs, which would give you some nice semi-random flow. I know you said you wanted to do a reef, but what kind of corals?

I have no idea how thick the acrylic or glass is on the tank so for arguement sake, we'll call the tank 40 gallons. So for a softie tank maybe shoot for 400-500 GPH and then for a SPS tank I would shoot for a 800-1000 GPH pump.

[fishymann]

I'm pretty sure it would be 1/4" acrylic so around 40 gallons. I'm looking at softies but i think im going to use a 250watt metal halide so really what ever i could keep with that lighting. So would around 900 gph with a few soft zones (for softies) allow me to keep the most range of coral?

[Hop]

You might need some stratigic positioning on a few corals depending on what you wind up putting in it:) But it should be good.

250 IMO, depending on the bulb/ballast combo would be a great choice considering the 24" height.

[fishymann]

Yea the reason i figured a 250 is because i've read alot about 24" height being cut off for 150.

I'm thinking maybe a Panworld 100PX
http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idproduct=JW1143
split the ouput into two main lines, and then have each one go into a scwd which will then go to two more outputs (giving me 4 all together) and creating a random current.

Thanks for all the help you're really answering a ton of questions for me.

[Hop]

I would ditch the scwd idea and grab a oceans motions super squirt. The scwds really cut down on efficiency and people seem to have problems with them not too far after sset up. The OM SS will still be running like the day you bought it four, five years down the road!

You could also cut back on the pump... A pan world 50 will only run 90 watts and deliver near 1000gph... It's cheaper too:D

[Hop]

Actually the squirt will work fine and it's only$150 new, you could likely find a used one in the 90 range. And I'm sorry, the pan workd 50-px x is 90 watts at 1100 gph.

[fishymann]

with the 50-pxx pushing out 1100gph you dont think i could just split the line and be okay? Or do you think the seasquirt is really gonna be the only efficient way of splitting the line.

[Hop]

That way you have random flow. It applies water to basically one output at a time, to create motion in the tank. It's will really liven the flow up in your tank:D

[Jacob D]

Look into the Sequence Snapper. It's more efficient than the panworld; will give you a lot more flow at about the same head and power draw, and it's not as noisy.

[sm007h]

I agree with a lot of the comments already posted.
The only thing to consider about drilling holes is the actual size of the hole versus the plumbing.

I thought it's be great to do 1" returns on a tank your size and I forgot that a 1" bulk takes a larger hole. So by the time I was done drilling my 3x1" bulkhead holes, I didn't have much space on the back of my tank anymore.

The 250 MH is great, but someone mentioned in another post that some 175 SE bulbs put out more PAR then some 250s. So you could get more light for less money ;)

[Hop]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10160017#post10160017 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mothra
Look into the Sequence Snapper. It's more efficient than the panworld; will give you a lot more flow at about the same head and power draw, and it's not as noisy.

Weird... The 50px x is the quietest external pump I have ever owned. Although I've never owned a snapper, it was hands down quieter than my dart which sequence claims to be the quietest in their line:)

but I do like sequence. I have two coming as we speak... Along with another 50 px-x.

[Jacob D]

To be fair I haven't heard that specific pan world. Most of them I have heard are noisy. In the DIY forum has a few threads with people modding them to make them less noisy though. It seems to vary pump to pump also.

FYI, the Snapper is just a Dart with smaller impeller, so that's about how loud it will be (a little less due to less flow).

[sm007h]

I have an iwaki 30 (japanese circ model) and as quiet as it is, it's still louder than my GRI 510 (pressure rated). I *love* GRI pumps.

But I'm waiting to put my Lim Wave pump on line because I can't even tell it's running and it pushes 4000+ GPH :)

Is that panworld the model people swap fans out to make them quieter? My GRI is fanless, so is my smaller model iwaki. I haven't ever heard a panworld (or iwaki) with a fan so I can't comment on the noise.

[Hop]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10160258#post10160258 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sm007h
I have an iwaki 30 (japanese circ model) and as quiet as it is, it's still louder than my GRI 510 (pressure rated). I *love* GRI pumps.

But I'm waiting to put my Lim Wave pump on line because I can't even tell it's running and it pushes 4000+ GPH :)

Is that panworld the model people swap fans out to make them quieter? My GRI is fanless, so is my smaller model iwaki. I haven't ever heard a panworld (or iwaki) with a fan so I can't comment on the noise.
I'm not sure. As long as I kept the vent holes and fan clean I could not hear it in the wetroom. When I could hear it, I knew it was time to clean the fan and shroud. I have heard that the larger pan worlds are louder, but I've never ran one of those either.

[fishymann]

The quieter the better, this will be in a bed room. Since this is all for planning stage i guess i could figure another 150$ for the seasquirt, thanks guys! Also what do you recommend, should i use locline? seems pretty expensive

[sm007h]

I don't know about the loc line. It's pretty convenient stuff, and I just found out the other day that you can buy penductors for the ends...much better than the wide nozzles people normally use.

I don't think it's more expensive than its worth, if that means anything ;) (meaning I've always used it when I had it and bought extra pieces here and there).

[Jacob D]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10160258#post10160258 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sm007h
I have an iwaki 30 (japanese circ model) and as quiet as it is, it's still louder than my GRI 510 (pressure rated). I *love* GRI pumps.

But I'm waiting to put my Lim Wave pump on line because I can't even tell it's running and it pushes 4000+ GPH :)

Is that panworld the model people swap fans out to make them quieter? My GRI is fanless, so is my smaller model iwaki. I haven't ever heard a panworld (or iwaki) with a fan so I can't comment on the noise.


I don't know about that particular model, but yes there are a lot of people removing the fans or making other mods to quiet them. I have a Velocity pump right now which is dead quiet, but runs hot. I also have a GRI 520, but it's slated for another project. I also have a Dart and will soon have a Snapper :)

[sm007h]

How do you rate the GRI's to the sequences?
If your 520 doesn't have a fan, like my 510, then I'd assume you have to touch it to make sure it's running ;)

[Jacob D]

It's got a fan. It's louder than the sequence, but it's also a high pressure pump and the Dart is not. I've never seen a GRI w/o a fan. Did you or someone else remove it or did it come that way?

[sm007h]

It comes that way. I think the 510 is the largest without a fan.

[fishymann]

Alright, only reason i asked about loc line is cuz it seems like every place sells it about the same price. Wow lots of discussion compared to last night