View Full Version : flushing fish
Moonstream
06/25/2007, 08:53 PM
I have seen many people telling others to flush there fish. Now, this is a bad idea and is very creuel! Even dead fish should not be flushed! The live fish dont die on impact, they die slowly from the ammonia and chlorine in the water. Please don't flush fish, it is wrong and creuel! Oh and by the way the fish can live up to 2 weeks in the plumbing.
humbugy
06/26/2007, 12:17 AM
just out of curiosity, what do you base the two weeks on?
J. Montgomery
06/26/2007, 09:33 AM
Why shouldn't dead fish be flushed? What alternative do you suggest?
RichConley
06/26/2007, 10:41 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10214899#post10214899 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Moonstream
I have seen many people telling others to flush there fish. Now, this is a bad idea and is very creuel! Even dead fish should not be flushed! The live fish dont die on impact, they die slowly from the ammonia and chlorine in the water. Please don't flush fish, it is wrong and creuel! Oh and by the way the fish can live up to 2 weeks in the plumbing.
I'd think this is entirely conjecture.
I have a septic system. If I flush a fish, I guarantee there is nothing left within 24 hours. Thats what septic systems do, dissolve organic waste.
Also, even on sewer, how is my saltwater fish going to survive for 2 weeks in freshwater?
HBtank
06/26/2007, 06:18 PM
Hey..
All drains lead to the ocean!
Reeferon
06/26/2007, 07:17 PM
A more humane way might be to put the fish in a plastic bag and then put it in the freezer for a day or two...
then flush it.
This way you will be sure that the fish is dead when you flush him.
and if he wasn't dead when you put it in the freezer, it died an easy death.
wazbot
06/27/2007, 09:51 AM
I bury my deceased fish around my fruit trees.
I bury them deep enough so that the local animal population can't dig them up.
Then I eat the fruit!
:rollface:
RichConley
06/27/2007, 10:21 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10221455#post10221455 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Reeferon
A more humane way might be to put the fish in a plastic bag and then put it in the freezer for a day or two...
then flush it.
This way you will be sure that the fish is dead when you flush him.
and if he wasn't dead when you put it in the freezer, it died an easy death.
Theres plenty of reasons why freezing a fish isnt humane. Its not accepted as a humane death by the AZA, or any other organization. MS222, a drug, or decapitation are really the only humane options.
Reeferon
06/27/2007, 11:19 AM
What's AZA?
Moonstream
06/27/2007, 12:35 PM
I have used the freezer meathod many times for my FW fish. I even used it on one of my prized female bettas. I was under the immpresion that it was very humane.
cwilson
06/27/2007, 12:59 PM
how is this advanced?
Paul B
06/27/2007, 01:46 PM
I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings but I think you are getting a little carried away. I eat fish almost every day and my family was in the fish market business for hundreds of years. Every fish caught and there are hundreds of millions of tons caught every year suffocate to death in the hold of a ship. Every fish that does not get caught (or collected) gets eaten alive by something larger.
Even Christ ate fish that died on a ship. I doubt he froze them first. They diden't have extention cords to plug in the freezers then
:lol:
I think it is perfectly alright to flush fish. The freshwater will kill them in a few minutes, probably shorter than freezing them.
I would not flush a healthy fish but I don't think anyone else would either.
I also believe that fish do not feel pain but we already went through a post about that and I don't want to start it again, so flush away.
By the way, that hamburger you ate for lunch also was not put to sleep before they shot a dart through it's head. And don't get me started on chickens. :eek1:
Paul
Icefire
06/27/2007, 04:34 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10226797#post10226797 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Paul B
I would not flush a healthy fish but I don't think anyone else would either. Paul
Many do it for the devil's fish, the damsel :lol:
AZA = Association of Zoos and Aquarium.
Weezel111
06/28/2007, 10:02 AM
where did all this " humane way to kill a fish" talk come from...i didnt realize this was a PETA forum...come on people, its a fish, they dont have feelings, flush 'em down...or (like my post in the other thread) feed them to the cat...its the circle of life and cats love fish...
kevin2000
06/28/2007, 03:24 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10225339#post10225339 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RichConley
Theres plenty of reasons why freezing a fish isnt humane. Its not accepted as a humane death by the AZA, or any other organization. MS222, a drug, or decapitation are really the only humane options.
My 02
Yes MS222 is an approved anesthetic used to euthanize fish .. but the cost and availability make it a useless recommendation to most aquarist. Decapitation doesn't fall into the same accepted category as MS222 and many aquarist would be reluctant to take that approach (accepted or not)
Putting a fish into a bag of SW and placing into the freezer is still the most accepted method of euthanizing fish for std aquarist.
BE-MAC
06/29/2007, 11:05 AM
if the fish is causing problems to the tank do what california does to trouble makers put them in the chair"the microwave". j/k
RichConley
06/29/2007, 12:25 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10234682#post10234682 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kevin2000
Decapitation doesn't fall into the same accepted category as MS222 and many aquarist would be reluctant to take that approach (accepted or not)
Putting a fish into a bag of SW and placing into the freezer is still the most accepted method of euthanizing fish for std aquarist.
Putting the fish in the freezer is no better than just throwing it out on the counter.
Atleast decapitation kills it quickly, and painlessly.
Dell2go
06/29/2007, 02:56 PM
If I don't flush it, I'll deep fry it for the cat.
Dell2go
06/29/2007, 02:59 PM
That way nothing is going to wasted or polluted. I would think it as a recycle rather cruel.
Icefire
06/29/2007, 04:13 PM
there was someone putting them in a blender, quick!
The0wn4g3
06/29/2007, 06:42 PM
Most of my fish that have died have gone to 1 of my cats. They really appreciate those $30 and $45 meals.
In some extreme cases I've been forced to put a suffering fish out of its misery... quickest death I could think of was putting it in a plastic bag and slamming it against a wall. I don't know about fish, but I'd rather go out in one quick blow than suffocating or being frozen :eek1:
bahhareef
06/30/2007, 12:07 AM
why do you guys feed your fish to your pets? they taste great...seriously- clown fish are so good
sunkool
06/30/2007, 08:02 PM
I just took all my rocks and coral out of my 125g just to get a damsel that I have been trying to catch for a year. Since he gave me such a hard time I am going to use him for bait next time I go fishing.
blazzent
07/01/2007, 11:37 PM
this is an advanced topic? just smash with a hammer.
honda2sk
07/02/2007, 01:59 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10221455#post10221455 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Reeferon
A more humane way might be to put the fish in a plastic bag and then put it in the freezer for a day or two...
then flush it.
This way you will be sure that the fish is dead when you flush him.
and if he wasn't dead when you put it in the freezer, it died an easy death.
freezing a fish causes terrible pain. cells rupture, many unpleasant things happen. last thing you should do is freeze a fish to kill it.
honda2sk
07/02/2007, 02:02 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10226797#post10226797 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Paul B
I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings but I think you are getting a little carried away. I eat fish almost every day and my family was in the fish market business for hundreds of years. Every fish caught and there are hundreds of millions of tons caught every year suffocate to death in the hold of a ship. Every fish that does not get caught (or collected) gets eaten alive by something larger.
Even Christ ate fish that died on a ship. I doubt he froze them first. They diden't have extention cords to plug in the freezers then
:lol:
I think it is perfectly alright to flush fish. The freshwater will kill them in a few minutes, probably shorter than freezing them.
I would not flush a healthy fish but I don't think anyone else would either.
I also believe that fish do not feel pain but we already went through a post about that and I don't want to start it again, so flush away.
By the way, that hamburger you ate for lunch also was not put to sleep before they shot a dart through it's head. And don't get me started on chickens. :eek1:
Paul
You are forgetting one key point my friend. All those cows and fish and chickens we EAT. We are all talking about out PET fish, which I am sure many of us have grown fond of and dont want to see suffer.
Ben485
07/02/2007, 04:01 PM
I think you should draw and quarter them, Braveheart style.
:rollface: get the ax people :rollface:
Paul B
07/02/2007, 04:23 PM
You are forgetting one key point my friend. All those cows and fish and chickens we EAT. We are all talking about out PET fish, which I am sure many of us have grown fond of and dont want to see suffer.
Well maybe those cows, fish and chickens were someone else's pet.
I don't consider my fish pets, I think of them as a hobby. I don't name them or sleep with them or talk to them because they are fish. Like I said fish were made to be eaten and for that reason I don't believe they have feelings, I don't know about emotions but I doubt it. Just about every fish ever born was eaten by something else, most of the time, alive. The fish that are not eaten suffocate in the hold of a ship. An animal like that should not feel pain.
They are also cold blooded which means that if you chill them all of their bodily functions including their brain gradually slows down until it stops. They do not feel cold because they were never warm. I believe it is much more humane to flush or freeze a fish then to let it die of ich where it is being eaten alive, although as I said they are usually eaten alive.
Paul
drstupid
07/02/2007, 07:18 PM
two words: lee-enfield
(sorry, wrong thread)
amcarrig
07/02/2007, 07:24 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10259624#post10259624 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Paul B
I don't consider my fish pets, I think of them as a hobby. I don't name them or sleep with them or talk to them because they are fish. [/B]
:thumbsup: Thank you :D
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10226797#post10226797 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Paul B
...
I also believe that fish do not feel pain but we already went through a post about that and I don't want to start it again, so flush away.
Paul
That's a very convenient opinion to have when killing something...
bbehring
07/02/2007, 07:39 PM
Is this the comedy forum? Gees what a laugh! Way too much thought going into how to kill a fish. When I was in Jr. High we use to use ladyfingers to blow the bluegills we caught off our hooks. Quarted, cleaned and cooked them all in one shot! Come on people, just flush, freeze, smash against the wall, hit with a hammer or feed them to your pets. No one needs a lecture on how or why to do it one way vs another for humanity's sake. Fun topic though!
billsreef
07/02/2007, 07:50 PM
Can they feel pain, certainly. That's just based on readily observable reactions to obvious stimuli. If if fish biting into a hook didn't feel pain, it wouldn't bother going off on a long and fast run the second it bit into the hook. Does that stop me from fishing, no. No more than it stops me from eating steak. However, some people do consider their fish to be pets. Even some farmers will have a pet pig or some other livestock that is a pet. That one will often not turn into dinner, yet the others kept in the barn are. So even for animals used for food, some of us can make a distinction between dinner and valued pet. I can easily go catch a large striped bass, fillet it, cook it and eat it. But I would feel bad if something happened to hurt my French Angel. As for freezing, IME a sick fish normally expires from the cold without any obvious signs of pain long before the temp is cold enough to start forming ice crystals.
ralphie16
07/02/2007, 08:46 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10259624#post10259624 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Paul B
I don't consider my fish pets, I think of them as a hobby. I don't name them or sleep with them or talk to them because they are fish.
Paul
You have never owned a Porcupine Puffer I am guessing. That thing is more personable then my wife's cats combined.
BeanAnimal
07/03/2007, 09:31 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10260799#post10260799 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Rue
That's a very convenient opinion to have when killing something...
This kind of stuff just kills me!
Do you use the same logic when YOU take a fish fron the ocean and hold it captive in YOUR tank? What about it's feelings and rights? I am sure you have a convenient explanation about that. :D
This whole thread is silly!
Icefire
07/03/2007, 10:25 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10258618#post10258618 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by honda2sk
freezing a fish causes terrible pain. cells rupture, many unpleasant things happen. last thing you should do is freeze a fish to kill it.
They die way before that. Also even a human who die from freezing is painless, you basicly just go to sleep and don't wake up.
israelnajar
07/03/2007, 11:04 PM
^^Agreed^^
How can flushing a dead fish be cruel? It is dead what does it care?
Also I am sure most anglers gut their fish alive, smashing them between two bricks or hammer them, that would just smash the bones and make it harder to fillet.
BTW I agree with freezing a suffering fish, as its body temp is the same temp as the water. Slowly bringing its temp down until death in a dark place probably eases stress and suffering.
If anyone sees Aqua Man ask him if fish feel pain. :)
Cody Ray
07/04/2007, 05:08 AM
This thread is stupid plain and simple. This does not belong in any forum other than maybe the lounge. Just because YOU believe something doesn't make it true! The fact that you weep over one fish yet don't raise a finger for the millions that are killed annually in the pet and food trade is just hypocritical. I have fish. I try to take good care of them. If they get sick I attempt to treat them until they are either better or die (like at the hospital). If they die they get fed to a larger fish.
Paul B
07/04/2007, 05:45 AM
This thread is stupid plain and simple. This does not belong in any forum other than maybe the lounge. Just because YOU believe something doesn't make it true! The fact that you weep over one fish yet don't raise a finger for the millions that are killed annually in the pet and food trade is just hypocritical. I have fish. I try to take good care of them. If they get sick I attempt to treat them until they are either better or die (like at the hospital). If they die they get fed to a larger fish.
Well alright then, I feel the same way:thumbsup:
BeanAnimal
07/04/2007, 08:29 AM
I would turn vegan, but don't plants have feelings too!
bbehring
07/05/2007, 10:09 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10270607#post10270607 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BeanAnimal
I would turn vegan, but don't plants have feelings too!
Yes especially squash and asparagus!:mixed:
Just kill it, eat it and enjoy life!:smokin:
ralphie16
07/09/2007, 11:08 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10269173#post10269173 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Icefire
They die way before that. Also even a human who die from freezing is painless, you basicly just go to sleep and don't wake up.
nope you, as a human, would develop hypothermia first, dont you think that hurts a little?
BeanAnimal
07/09/2007, 11:12 AM
Warm blooded and cold blooded creatures react to temperature swing differently ralphie. Cold blooded creatures slow down as the temperature drops. As they slow down, so does their nervous system :)
I wonder what they think when a bigger fish chomps on them, or a bear plucks them out of the waterfall?
ralphie16
07/09/2007, 11:15 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10269942#post10269942 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by crrichey
The fact that you weep over one fish yet don't raise a finger for the millions that are killed annually in the pet and food trade is just hypocritical. .
why is that hypocritical? would you weep if someone form your friend or family died? of course right? what if they suffered before they died? absolutely.
how about all the millions of people who die all around the world from cruel governments? so your saying that you would be hypocritical and can only care if someone from your family dies if you also care about all the people around the world who die too that you dont even know?
let me break it down how you said it:
The fact that you weep over one "family member/friend" yet don't raise a finger for the millions "of people" that are killed annually in the "human" trade is just hypocritical.
I would not call someone hypocritical if they felt bad for someone they knew and not for someone all the way across the world....
fishyvet
07/09/2007, 11:58 AM
I really don't care if you think fish can feel pain or not. Fish do respond to noxious stimuli and that is good enough evidence for me to try to make death as "painless" as possible. Many people do consider their fish pets and want the same considerations for them as are made for cats and dogs. Currently it is illegal (and socially unacceptable) to put your cat or dog in the freezer until its dead. So freeze away on the fish for now, just know that there are many scientists interested in humane methods of euthanizing fish and the freezer, and microwave for that matter, don't cut it. For those of you who are interested in humanely euthanizing a fish, please refer to the following document. Page 20 (JAVMA, Vol 218, No. 5, March 1, 2001 p. 687) has the fish section.
http://www.avma.org/issues/animal_welfare/euthanasia.pdf
RichConley
07/09/2007, 12:03 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10303113#post10303113 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BeanAnimal
I wonder what they think when a bigger fish chomps on them, or a bear plucks them out of the waterfall?
Bean, how is that relevant? My pet rabbit would feel lots of pain if my neighbor's dog tried to eat him, but that doesnt mean I shouldnt try to ease his suffering if I put him down.
BeanAnimal
07/09/2007, 12:08 PM
fishyvet, please make the arguement that the garbage disposal, blender, or a hammer are not humane :D
Just because we find the idea of instant violent death uncomfortable from a human perspective, does not mean that it is inhumane. Instant lights out is instant lights out. Yet, we will spend millions on laws and methods to make the act more comfortable for the bleeding heart humans that have to carry it out.
Don't get me wrong, I would not smash my dog over the head with a hammer or freeze him to death. I also despise the fact that people torture pets. I can also understand people having feelings for their pets, as my dog is like a member of the family.
Just don't spend my tax money trying to make yourself feel better when you kill lab rats. It is utter nonsense. Your worried about the freezer or microwave, but I would bet that you don't think twice when you sit down to eat that haddock fillet or prime rib. When was the last time you told the manager of the meat counter that the current harvesting methods "just don't cut it?"
Sure scientists are working on things like that... the world is full of scientists that waste money working on things like that. Hell an entire industry is built around spending on feel good science.
More food for thought.
fishyvet
07/09/2007, 12:46 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10303440#post10303440 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BeanAnimal
fishyvet, please make the arguement that the garbage disposal, blender, or a hammer are not humane :D
Just because we find the idea of instant violent death uncomfortable from a human perspective, does not mean that it is inhumane. Instant lights out is instant lights out. Yet, we will spend millions on laws and methods to make the act more comfortable for the bleeding heart humans that have to carry it out.
Don't get me wrong, I would not smash my dog over the head with a hammer or freeze him to death. I also despise the fact that people torture pets. I can also understand people having feelings for their pets, as my dog is like a member of the family.
Just don't spend my tax money trying to make yourself feel better when you kill lab rats. It is utter nonsense. Your worried about the freezer or microwave, but I would bet that you don't think twice when you sit down to eat that haddock fillet or prime rib. When was the last time you told the manager of the meat counter that the current harvesting methods "just don't cut it?"
Sure scientists are working on things like that... the world is full of scientists that waste money working on things like that. Hell an entire industry is built around spending on feel good science.
More food for thought.
none of your methods would be inhumane if it severed the spinal cord appropriately on the first go round. But since I could not guarantee that the fish would be instantly dead the first time I attempted it, I say it has the potential to be inhumane and I would never use it in front of a client. There are just better ways.
Just by the way, you have no say where your tax dollars are spent. I admit ignorance about where the money comes from to fund these studies but I do feel that there is a place for them to ensure animals have a painless death. Maybe you don't see the need for animal research but there are a lot of people who disagree with you.
I don't feel bad about ribs, steak, or chicken. I've been to production facilities and seen the slaughter houses. It's gruesome but the animals were not suffering or in pain in the end. But I do feel bad for the fish because they suffocate and their swimbladders burst when being hauled from the deep. I am a bleedingheart animal lover and I hate to see any creature suffer. I see no point in trying to make a butcher feel badly for providing fillets because the animals suffocated to death. He is on the retail end of things and has no influence over the process. I can't think of a more effective way to kill thousands of fish for market than suffocation, but yeah, it makes me feel bad about the animal's end when I eat it.
BeanAnimal
07/09/2007, 12:57 PM
Sadly, we do not have direct say in where our tax dollars are spent.
I would not smash a fish in front of a client either :) As I said, I can understand the feelingst that people have for their pets, not matter what that pet is.
I also fully understand the need for animal research and also feel that the animals should be treated as well as possible.
I also do not like to see animals suffer, for any reason. I likely could not eat the pet cow. That said, I do eat steak and somebody elses cow :)
Like I said, just food for thought. Many people are not able to put things in perspective and instead think totaly with their hearts and let logic and the rest of reality be damed.
Bean
Paul B
07/09/2007, 01:07 PM
I believe that people who feel that fish have feelings should not take them from the sea and keep them hostage until they die in their tanks.
Leave them in the sea so they can be eaten alive naturally like they are supposed to do.
Today I killed a bunch of carpenter bees that were making holes all over my house. I don't feel bad about them at all mainly because I believe they feel as much pain as fish.
Paul
ralphie16
07/09/2007, 01:18 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10303810#post10303810 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Paul B
I believe that people who feel that fish have feelings should not take them from the sea and keep them hostage until they die in their tanks.
Leave them in the sea so they can be eaten alive naturally like they are supposed to do.
Today I killed a bunch of carpenter bees that were making holes all over my house. I don't feel bad about them at all mainly because I believe they feel as much pain as fish.
Paul
The argument is not about the fish's feelings Paul. Its that many of us humans have feelings for the fish that we keep and think of them as pets and do not want them to suffer more then they have to when they their time comes. If you don't think of them as pets like dogs then thats your thing but don't take that away from people who do think of them in that respect. Same thing can be said about dogs, we keep them hostage in our little homes & backyards, instead of in nature where they would be eaten alive like they are supposed to. So what if someone has a soft spot for fish too?
BeanAnimal
07/09/2007, 07:08 PM
I don't think paul has a problem with people weeping for their dying fish and wanting it not to suffer. Paul (like many if us) has a problem with the people who use that type of emotion to preach to others about how and why the rest of us should treat our dying fish, or bumble bees, or whatever somebody has decided has feelings and is as high on the food chain as a human... It is not a far stretch to "don't kill that roach, it has feelings too" is the point.
bbehring
07/09/2007, 08:56 PM
Exactly, Well said!
Cantonesefish
07/10/2007, 03:09 PM
To the original question... it doesn't matter if fish have feelings or not (assuming they can't feel pain is rather asinine), flushing fish that are ALIVE is inhumane... it's neither instant nor painless. Hopefully we've gotten far enough in this thread to agree on that.
BeanAnimal
07/10/2007, 05:32 PM
And pulling them from the stream on your next fishing trip is? It is all a matter of perspective, thats all.
Paul B
07/10/2007, 05:48 PM
If you don't think of them as pets like dogs then thats your thing but don't take that away from people who do think of them in that respect.
Ralphie, it's perfectable acceptable to think of fish as pets. I never said not to. I don't, but of course you can if you like.
Cantonesefish, I must be asinine because I don't think fish feel pain.
I am not saying that because I am heartless or because I don't think of fish as pets. I am saying that because I have been studying them for over fifty years and I have been diving with them for almost forty of those years. I have seen a lot of fish die from many causes and in my observations I don't think they feel pain. You can love your fish like they are your family but they are cold blooded creatures, very low on the evolutionary scale with almost no areas in their brain dedicated to feeling any pain. They obviousely feel something but an animal that is designed to be eaten alive almost 100% of the time really should not feel pain.
I have seen sharks with their intestines ripped out trailing 10 feet behind them and the same animal trying to keep turning around to eat them himself. I have caught many flounder and thrown them back because they were too small only to catch the same animal a few minutes later even though their mouth was practically torn off. I once had a hippo tang that had a shrimp in his mouth, a trigger fish tore off his entire lower jaw. That hippo continued to try to eat even though he had no mouth.
I came to this conclusion from many years of observation not just because I feel bad if a fish dies.
You can't compare dogs to fish, a dog is a mammal like us.
A fish metabolism is controlled by temperature like a snake, frog, insect or worm. Those animals do not feel cold because they are always cold. When you warm them up they move faster, if you chill them they go slower. Goldfish live all winter under the ice, they are not cold, they are in a state of hybernation. It is not pain, it is a natural thing for cold blooded animals to slow down in the cold. Their bodily functions slow down with no harm to the animal. In that state even their brains are not functioning.
In a freezer their heart keeps slowing down until it stops. They do not get cold. It happens to fish in northern climates all the time. I don't know what you do with a fish that is obviousely dying but if you feel for the animal you would do better freezing it than to let it die slowly. I don't think they are in pain but I can tell they are not real "happy" for lack of a better word.
My fish live a very long time I don't torture them, I don't abuse them, I do everything I can to let them live their normal lifespan which is sometimes 18 years. I collect their food in the sea and I Have dove with every type of fish that I have had. I think I know enough about them to have a fairly good Idea about what they need and although I am not the God of fish I have studied them longer than anyone I know so thats my educated opinion about what they feel.
Hows that for two fingered typing? :rolleyes:
Stanton
07/10/2007, 06:46 PM
The way I see it... If you truly care about whats humane and whats not..You have to ask yourself is keeping your fish in a glass box humane? No it's not! You can train them to respond positvely so we think they are just tickled to freakin death to be our pets. Wheres the best place for a fish? In it's natural habitat!
If certain people are so worried about whats humane...Then theyshould flie their fish back to where they came from and wish them well. Thats humane! Until you do that ...HUSH. Your no better than the next guy.
royaloaksmoke
07/10/2007, 06:52 PM
Humane...since when are fish human?
billsreef
07/10/2007, 07:07 PM
I think all the points for every possible outlook have been made and leave this thread no where to go but into arguments. So, thread closed.
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