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The Saltwater Kid
06/26/2007, 08:30 AM
What are the benefits of this? What are the drawbacks? I do have a Kent Marine Aquadoser 1400ml. that I could use if this would be beneficial to my tank. Do they make a premixed kalkwasser solution I could use? Is there anything I would have to really keep an eye on as far as water params if I installed a Kalkwasser drip?

Billybeau1
06/26/2007, 09:13 AM
You can either buy something like Seachems reef kalkwasser or a lot of folks use Mrs Wages pickling lime. 2 tsp per gallon max.

pH is what you would want to keep an eye on.

Here is the poop. :D

What your grandmother never told you about lime
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-01/rhf/index.htm

bajabum
06/26/2007, 01:25 PM
I use a kent 2 1/2 gallon drip system. I keep solid lime in bottom. I add RO to container. I target a steady drip that will keep pH above 8.2 and below 8.4 during lights on. I drip into high flow area. The above referenced article covers it pretty well. It is the only way I have found to maintain a stable system while I am gone.

SJimmyH
06/26/2007, 02:51 PM
Bennefits: Constant resupply of Calcium, Carbonates (alkalinity), lowered CO2 in the tank (higher pH for a given alkalinity), precipitates with ionic phosphates (forming CaPO4) which helps to keep phosphates lower. Relatively inexpensive when compared to alternatives of 2 part solutions or aquaria targeted Kalkwasser mix if you choose to use (and can find) Mrs. Wages Pickling Lime.

Disadvantages: Can precipitate Mg and Sr. Over prolonged use, you could find yourself having to suppliment these elements directly when you didn't have to before. Overdose could cloud tank for a few days and potentially kill livestock if pH were to increase to much. Caustic, be careful when handling (children and CaOH don't mix well). Can be used with a dosing pump and pretty much assure that an overdose doesn't happen, but that would greatly increase cost.

I am sure I am missing some things, but these are some that I thought of right off the top of my head. Best to read the above linked article.

Billybeau1
06/26/2007, 03:59 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10219682#post10219682 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SJimmyH
I am sure I am missing some things, but these are some that I thought of right off the top of my head. Best to read the above linked article.

Yes, I'm sure you're missing a lot of things.

I suggest you study a little more before giving advice to people who don't know better. :)

chesapeake
06/26/2007, 08:36 PM
hey jimmy it was goood advise in my opinion.just would add that dripping the solution at night is your best bet for not spiking the ph.

Sk8r
06/26/2007, 08:50 PM
I started using kalk a month or so ago, and am very pleased with it. If you get a kalk reactor, with a stirrer, it will run you about 300.oo---bennies, it mixes itself, just dump in half a container of Mrs. Wages, and it lasts a month before you have to do anything. Any dosing pump can push the kalkwasser from the reactor to drip into the sump as makeup water for evaporation. I have a 54g tank, and it does very well in keeping alk and cal---you have to supplement now and again, but not often.

I'm pleased at the explanation above about phosphate precipitation [someone on another thread had tested a solution of Mrs. Wages, read phosphate, and concluded Mrs. Wages was bringing it in]...and mg and strontium precipitation: my lfs just handed me a big bottle of mg and said I was going to need it sooner or later. So two mysteries are solved.

I debated whether to outlay for kalk or calcium reactor and decided if I were a total fool [as I am occasionally] I could do more damage with a calcium reactor, plus it requires more moving parts, and I already had a barrel full of ro/di and an autotopoff, so kalk it was.

SJimmyH
06/27/2007, 06:12 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10222154#post10222154 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by chesapeake
hey jimmy it was goood advise in my opinion.just would add that dripping the solution at night is your best bet for not spiking the ph.

Thanx, bud. I appreciate it. I personally drip Kalkwasser to remove CO2, so I drip continuously. That's why I didn't really talk about that.

Someday, you and I can give advice to people too though. If we just post one word at a time and talk a lot, we too could have large numbers under our avatar.

I was pretty sure he just asked what were some advantages and disadvantages. If I had known he was asking exactly how to set it all up... I would've known my place and just shut up.

No biggy, I will learn... after a few thousand more posts.

SJimmyH
06/27/2007, 06:16 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10222260#post10222260 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Sk8r

I'm pleased at the explanation above about phosphate precipitation [someone on another thread had tested a solution of Mrs. Wages, read phosphate, and concluded Mrs. Wages was bringing it in]...and mg and strontium precipitation: my lfs just handed me a big bottle of mg and said I was going to need it sooner or later. So two mysteries are solved.


I saw it. Crazy stuff. Oops, did I just give some more advice... damn!

bertoni
06/27/2007, 06:27 PM
I don't see how limewater can precipitate magnesium, at least not permanently. Some magnesium hydroxide might form temporarily, but it will redissolve. I'm not sure about strontium; I'll have to check.

Using limewater as opposed to some other methods of calcium and alkalinity supplementation can allow magnesium to drop over time, since limewater won't supply any, and 2-parts, for example, do.

SJimmyH
06/27/2007, 06:29 PM
Hold on, I just did some more research...

Its white, chalky and makes rings in the water when you kerplop it in.

Hope I didn't overstep my bounds... But I confirmed it through my own experiments just to make sure I wasn't putting any bum dope up.

SJimmyH
06/27/2007, 07:43 PM
Thanks, Bertoni. I think I now realize why I torqued Billy off. Here I thought it was just a petty thing like he just didn't like new guys to RC to talk, but its another petty thing like I have my own opinions. I guess he doesn't agree with my statements on Mg and Sr?

Ah well, Thiel and Moe didn't advocate kalkwasser use at all back in the early nineties (when saltwater, for you, meant a discus tank)... imagine if we all had listened. We'd all be feeding our corals target food and keeping our alkalinity as high as 20 dKH.

Anyway, figure if I put a smiley at the end here you wouldn't mind if I insult you either. :)

chesapeake
06/27/2007, 08:27 PM
I ACTUALLY MADE MY OWN DOSER with food safe 2g square bucket.picked up a small valve from the LFS and I just drip it in 3 nights a week as well as adding Randy's two part cal and alk.with my top of water every evening keeps my cal and alk perfect.Hope this helps alittle.if not I tried

Billybeau1
06/27/2007, 08:50 PM
Actually, Jimmy, looking back on my post, I might have been a little hard on you. I was a newbie once and we all learn as we go.

Your participation in Reef Central is always welcome and encouraged. If it weren't for people like you, we wouldn't have much of a web site, would we.

Thiel, in his time, was very instrumental in educating young aquarists.

Moe was, and still is ..... well Moe. His contributions to the hobby are priceless.

And then there is Boomer. :blown:


:lol:

SJimmyH
06/27/2007, 08:58 PM
I'm actually a little disappointed I was able to get you to come to my level.

I'll even let you get the last one in.

Billybeau1
06/27/2007, 09:07 PM
Your a Navy man...... What can I say. :D

SJimmyH
06/27/2007, 09:12 PM
Yeah, I woulda stooped to my level too... hmm, is that possible? Maybe I woulda just fit in the door without duckin.

adtravels
06/27/2007, 09:28 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10219682#post10219682 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SJimmyH
Bennefits: Constant resupply of Calcium, Carbonates (alkalinity), lowered CO2 in the tank (higher pH for a given alkalinity), precipitates with ionic phosphates (forming CaPO4) which helps to keep phosphates lower. Relatively inexpensive when compared to alternatives of 2 part solutions or aquaria targeted Kalkwasser mix if you choose to use (and can find) Mrs. Wages Pickling Lime.

Disadvantages: Can precipitate Mg and Sr. Over prolonged use, you could find yourself having to suppliment these elements directly when you didn't have to before. Overdose could cloud tank for a few days and potentially kill livestock if pH were to increase to much. Caustic, be careful when handling (children and CaOH don't mix well). Can be used with a dosing pump and pretty much assure that an overdose doesn't happen, but that would greatly increase cost.

I am sure I am missing some things, but these are some that I thought of right off the top of my head. Best to read the above linked article. Overdose could cloud tank for a few days and potentially kill livestock if pH were to increase to much.


unfortunatly found this point out the wrong way:(

SJimmyH
06/28/2007, 10:13 AM
Was it due to toxic levels of Mg depletion?

Na, just joking.

I am sorry to hear this, though. Hope you didn't loose everything.

The Saltwater Kid
06/28/2007, 11:10 AM
I just battled a Magnesium dip (down to 900) that must have been going on incrementally over the last year or so. That being said I just got it back up to where it should be so I'm not in a rush to dose something that could/will decrease it again. Maybe I'll just stick with the 2-part supplements...is there a 2-part supplement that can be mixed together and dosed by the drip method in my aquadoser?

MJAnderson
06/28/2007, 11:54 AM
I guess I need to keep up on my reading. I thought dripping calk did reduce both mag and strontium. Did Randy reverse himself after this article?

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/dec2003/chem.htm

"It also turns out that magnesium is very insoluble at high pH. In limewater, its low solubility can result in precipitation of magnesium hydroxide on the bottom of a limewater reservoir. This precipitation limits how much of the magnesium in the lime is delivered to aquaria, as will be shown below."

SJimmyH
06/28/2007, 03:06 PM
I cannot recall who makes it, but there is a 1 part calcium/alkalinity supplement out there I have seen for sale. Can't tell you anything about it though, since I really just don't know that much about it.

I wouldn't worry about a kalk drip and Mg or Sr too much. I am more or less going on what people experience more than actual chemistry. At any rate, if there is precipitation (which I think there most likely is some based on people's experiences and the fact that you can get Calcium Carbonate fallout from dripping, and Strontium, Magnesium and Calcium all act very similarly chemistry wise), I have never heard of it being rapid. You could test monthly, I imagine, and be fairly on top of what your Mg levels are. The bennies outway the fallbacks by quite a bit, IMO.

You guys can all fault me because I am not "with it" as far as the latest jive goes, thats okay. I think you all realize I have a sense of soberness to go with my humor by now. I've been doing Saltwater reefs and fish for 15 years now, and a year and a half of that it was my job at a large LPS as the manager of the fish dept. I don't tend to follow like a lemming very much anymore when new theories and products come out, and it takes time to convince me of anything. Lord knows, how much reefing has changed just in the last 12 years about care and water quality.

You just cannot jump on every bandwagon that pops up, and you can't be afraid of change either.

bertoni
06/28/2007, 04:15 PM
That quote is discussing magnesium and strontium in the limewater. I thought the original point was precipitation in the tank.

Salifert makes a 1-part that is based on calcium acetate. It's fine for small tanks, although it'd get costly for larger ones.

SJimmyH
06/28/2007, 06:26 PM
Hey, Billy, I just noticed you got a sweetlips... them are tough fish to keep. Not bad for a discus man (or was it cichlids? That how you spell that?).