Looking for a sample liability contract type thing for aquarium maintenance

[Gluestick]

Does anyone have a sample of a liability release form for doing an aquarium maintenance gig? I'm just trying to earn a few bucks here and there doing some aquarium maintenance for a couple offices, and I don't think that I really need insurance. I've talked to a couple places around here and most of them just have liability forms that they have people sign. I've also talked to a lawyer and he said that it should be sufficient. Does anyone have one that I could take a look at? I found a site called small business forms or something like that but it's not really what I'm looking for. Thanks

[Dell2go]

I don't have it. But I am sure interested also. pump

[Kentanner11]

Im interested also!

[loves saltwater]

Interested too bump !

[tuberider]

Here ya go contracts (http://www.businessformsstore.com/aquarium_maintenance)

[foshizzle]

An airtight liability disclaimer is fairly difficult. Unless you setup your "company" as a LLC you could be personally liable for everything. Filing the forms to establish an LLC is simple and cheap.

i.e. you use an electrical strip that shorts out and causes a fire... the client (more likely their insurance company) could come after your house, car, everything.

Take a look at some other service contracts. Doesn't really matter what type of service it is...

[Alto]

Anyone who does this without insurance is just playing russian roulette. You could go years without a problem but the one time you do could ruin you for the rest of your life. When I was starting my maintenance business several years ago in Sacramento ca, I was recommended by an attorney to carry a million dollars of liability insurance. There is no liability waiver that will save your *** if the damage was found to be caused by negligence, meaning a mistake on your part. It will save you from equipment failure and such. But if you just out and out make a mistake(drop some live rock and break their glass tank, spilling the contents onto the floor) dont count on that contract form saving you. I would expect to pay to replace the tank completely and any cleaning, or replacement of furniture and carpet.

[balsaaaq]

nolo.com has a wealth of info....go the llc route...safer, and many more advantages, including health benes'......what I would like to see is a complete business plan...anyone have one they dont mind sharing?

-bals

[Alto]

Also another note. With as litigious as our society is now days, someone can take you to court to fight the legitimacy of a liability waiver. Even if you win your case you are still out probably close to $10,000 in lawyers fees. With insurance you could save yourself all that money by settling things with the home owner/business owner. I believe I was paying around 1500-2000 a year for insurance in California, which was worth the piece of mind. The liability waiver should be in addition to a insurance not instead of. Sorry to beat a dead horse here.

[Gluestick]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10251752#post10251752 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tuberider
Here ya go contracts (http://www.businessformsstore.com/aquarium_maintenance)
this is not what we're looking for, but thanks. you have to buy these, and it's not really a legal form.

[Gluestick]

I think that it has been beaten to death. It's our decision whether or not we want to go that route. The advice is appreciated, For now, we're just looking for a contract sample. In big league businesses I can see where insurance and the LLc thing would be positively necessary, but lets stick to the subject: looking for a sample liability contract. Thanks though.

[Gluestick]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10251752#post10251752 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tuberider
Here ya go contracts (http://www.businessformsstore.com/aquarium_maintenance)
this is not what we're looking for, but thanks. you have to buy these, and it's not really a legal form.

[foshizzle]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10260688#post10260688 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Gluestick
I think that it has been beaten to death. It's our decision whether or not we want to go that route. The advice is appreciated, For now, we're just looking for a contract sample. In big league businesses I can see where insurance and the LLc thing would be positively necessary, but lets stick to the subject: looking for a sample liability contract. Thanks though.

lol. you have no idea what you don't know

[Gluestick]

Why do you have to be so discouraging? Is that really necessary? ::eyeroll::

[Kentanner11]

This may sound really really dumb, but hey, You could just set up a video camera and have you and the person whose tank you'll be working on discuss what you can and can not be heald liable for.

[woz9683]

I don't think the tone is meant to be discouraging, but several people have given you sound advice. You're probably not going to get a legitimate legal document posted on here as a freebie, people pay good money to get quality documents written up. Not to mention, as several have stated, even if you do spend money to get something written up it probably won't save you from some form of liability and it definitely won't save you from having to defend yourself in court (which can often be more expensive anyway) unless you just get lucky.

But here's a sample all the same:

July 2, 2007

I, (Client), have hired Gluestick to take care of my aquatic apparati. Gluestick is hereby waived of liability from any unforeseeable occurrences which may arise during the care of said apparati.

Signature
Signature
Signature


Notary Public
Seal of the Great State of Illinois

....Fade to Black....




(Please recognize this contract for the mockery it is, I have no legal training whatsoever and no training in writing contracts. I, me, hereby waive myself from the liability associated with actually using this ridiculous contract.)

[shrinky]

Uh... dude, you need to head to an attorney. With all due respect to anyone who's given you an 'example' - why would you mess around?

That and, what's to stop YOU from suing one of your fellow forum members when your 'contract' goes sour... see what people are getting at? You have to do this stuff the right way.

[woz9683]

shrinky, you know my "example" was a joke right? Note my disclaimer (also a joke) at the bottom of the post.

[reefsafe]

I have drafted similar agreements in the past. Pm me if you are interested.

[PJSEA]

You may be able to limit your liability but you can't waive all liability, especially if it comes from your negligence.
If you were careless and smashed someones tank you'd probably be liable. If you accidently poured rat poison into someones tank you'd probably be liable.

$40 for all the forms you might need is not that high a price to pay for someones effort. Spend the money and get the forms. Protect yourself and get some insurance for your business.

If everyone had that attitude your business wouldn't go anywhere.

[Solitaryensis]

Gluestick,
Not to be repetitive, but I would definitely look into liability insurance and/or setting up an LLC. Not that doing so would fully protect you, but doing maintenance (as simple as it sounds) really isn’t something you should take part in without protecting yourself first. I have a friend who used to own a maintenance business and I cant tell you how many times things went wrong, i.e. a simple hose clamp failing and squirting water all over hard-wood floors in a multi-million dollar home. As good as you might be, there’s ALWAYS a chance of something happening in this hobby. I’d hate to see someone paying the rest of their life just to make $75/hr cleaning someone’s tank. As remote as that might sound, you would be surprised how often and easily a leak can/will happen. Have that happen because you forgot to turn off a hose, or spill a jug of water and you might be paying for a long time.

If you are intent on going forward with a simply liability form, I’m sure you can find some really simple ones online. Hell, you could probably right one yourself. But as others have stated, it probably wouldn’t protect you from, say, negligence, which most of these types of cases would probably arise under.

Either way, good luck.

[Solitaryensis]

Oh and BTW, LLC and liability insurance arent for "big league businesses" like you might think. Nearly everyone, including mom and pops, who owns a business has some type of protection, other than simply a liability waiver. Its at least worth reading up on and researching, IMHO.

But, once again its your business to do as you'd like. Good luck

[shrinky]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10264343#post10264343 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by woz9683
shrinky, you know my "example" was a joke right? Note my disclaimer (also a joke) at the bottom of the post.

Hi Woz - yep I noticed =)

I actually was directing my comments at the OP, not you personally, sorry if it came off that way I should have been more specific.

[Gluestick]

solitaryensis, how do i get liability insurance and is it expensive?
what does "insured and bonded" mean and how do you get that?
What is the difference between LLC and liability ins? I don't even know what that is, and yes, I did think it was for like, huge businesses only. Thanks for clearing that up, I am interested in finding out more.

[Fishbulb2]

Wow, this was extremely informative. I've been wanted to do this for a long time and have considered getting into installing RO/DI units for people. My fear was always getting sued. I will definitely look into the insurance and licensing if I ever actually take the plunge. Otherwise, I agree that I could easily see myself paying off someone else's house for one little mistake.

[glassbox-design]

if your nice some people over at RDO will share theirs with you...but only if you're nice ;)

[Solitaryensis]

I wouldn’t trust a 3rd year law student to give you guys information on this stuff, but ill do my best. As always, I suggest consulting someone who does this for a living.

So…LLC is an acronym for Limited Liability Corporation. One way to think of incorporating is that you are creating a fictitious “character” - one that will “take the fall” or is responsible if something ever happens, if you will. One of the advantages of creating an LLC is that you limit any liability to the corporation. In other words, if something goes wrong, the corporation is responsible and not the individual actor (with a few exceptions) So, if the cable guy screws up and causes your house to catch fire, he is not responsible – the corporation is.

There are many ways in which to incorporate, i.e. LLP, Sole Proprietorship (which might work better for you). Generally speaking, the difference in choice comes down to tax reasons and not so much liability, as they all sort of protect you in similar ways.

Liability insurance, on the other hand, is just that – liability insurance. Your business would get the insurance and this would be your liability against being sued, someone slipping on water, etc. This is important, say, if someone decides to sue your corporation and the corporation has no money. They would either go after the insurance company or you, if you don’t have any insurance.

If it were me, I would start by going “downtown” and getting a small-business license. Depending on where you live, this shouldn’t be very expensive at all. I would then think about how large you want your business and depending on that, decide on how you want to incorporate. Like I said above, the choice in deciding how to incorporate, in many cases, comes down to how much you will be making and how you would like to be taxed.

This was a really quick synopsis into the world of small-business and incorporating. I would suggest consulting someone that has experience with this. My guess is that there are attorneys out there that advise potential small business owners like yourself for a small, but still substantial fee. If you asked for my opinion (which I know you didn’t), I would say don’t bother unless you go through the steps to protect yourself. $250.00 over the weekend could end up being much more trouble than its worth.

[foshizzle]

My previous response was not meant to be degrading. The early posts contained pretty sound legal advice whether they came from lawyers or not. As a general rule, liabilty disclaimers don't work. It seemed like you were asking for advice and then ignoring what you got...

It's kind of counter-intuitive, but the smaller you are the MORE you need to protect yourself b/c you cant absorb the cost of a lawsuit (whether you win or not). Though you would probably never have to worry about any of this, it could ruin you if you did.

... a personal choice, but this is the advice you will get from any lawyer. Best of luck.

[smcdonn]

See what this thread has turned in to. Man this country is going to $hit

[nyvp]

setting up a LLC can be as low as $150 depending on state and upgrades
http://www.amerilawyer.com/ or goggle LLC

[foshizzle]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10269723#post10269723 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by smcdonn
See what this thread has turned in to. Man this country is going to $hit

Attorneys make the world go round ;)

[Solitaryensis]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10269723#post10269723 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by smcdonn
See what this thread has turned in to. Man this country is going to $hit


Hmmmm...I assume you are referring to the litigious society we live in? As much as I agree with you, I don’t think that that type of blanket statement applies in all situations – especially this one. Most people who are able to afford having their aquariums serviced live in average to above-average priced home and as such, have nice expensive floors, stereos, etc. I don’t know about you, but if someone came over to clean my tank and ruined my floors, I’d want someone to pay, whether I’m the nicest guy in the world or not. Servicing, like fixing cars, or being a doctor, comes with LOTS of liabilities. We’re not talking about getting sued over a hot cup of coffee at Mc’Donald’s; were dealing with a situation where disaster is always looming and 20K floors can go down the drain from something as simple as a hose clamp failing.

[ihopss]

This is to much trouble..

[tgreene]

I stated all of this in her other thread, where she equally IGNORED the advice that was being given by others...

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In February of this year, another reefkeeper and I began a full-scale saltwater sales, service, design & install business. The very first thing that we did, was to apply to the I.R.S. for our FEIN, once we had that, we proceeded to apply with the state for our LLC. With LLC in hand, we applied and received our state and local business operating permits. Once that was all complete, we modified our LLC to become an S-Corp for even greater tax benefits. -- The whole mess cost roughly $200, and most of it was able to be handled online. Fortunately for us, my wife is an accountant, so she knew what needed to be done, and in what order.

When my partner and I do a "site survey" for a new project, or even better to take over someone elses accounts, we take lots of photos and notes, then write up a very descriptive report to present to the client. This report details everything from existing structural problems (electrical, plumbing, walls/floors/ceilings, etc.), so that we have a comprehensive record of the exact condition of the site BEFORE we ever begin a project.

We also go into great detail in regards to potential humidity issues, what could happen should a leak or massive spill take place, salt creep, etc., and when and where necessary, we will either make the necessary structural changes or sub-contract that out to a licensed contractor if required by code.

Also, because the systems we design and install are generally quiet automated, we have to run a lot of water lines as well as Cat-5 ethernet cable, which means we not only have to modify the site to allow for such capabilities, but we have to know what we're doing to be able to do it without leaving a visible trace.

For years, I have either been a partner in, or wholly owned numerous "high risk" businesses, where nothing could ever be left to chance.

-Tim

[tgreene]

Gluestick:

Any updates on what you've decided to do... or not?

[Gluestick]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10273191#post10273191 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tgreene
I stated all of this in her other thread, where she equally IGNORED the advice that was being given by others...

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gee, sorry for IGNORING you, my grandfather has been ill with kidney cancer; he died yesterday.

Anyway, I have insurance now, I'm licensed and bonded, and on my way.
Thanks to all of you for the helpful advice, and for the encouragement.
I think I have what I wanted out of this thread, so I'm unsubscribing now--- take note of this so that you don't think I'm IGNORING you.
Thanks
glue

[tgreene]

Unsubscribed or not, I would love to know what specific LICENSING you would have obtained for this biz..?

Also, bonded and insured would either fall under the same category in some situations, or be very different in others. For the purposes of this biz, insurance is what would be necessary, not bonding.

-Tim

[tgreene]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Gluestick
I think that it has been beaten to death. It's our decision whether or not we want to go that route. The advice is appreciated, For now, we're just looking for a contract sample. In big league businesses I can see where insurance and the LLc thing would be positively necessary, but lets stick to the subject: looking for a sample liability contract. Thanks though.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10261908#post10261908 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by foshizzle
lol. you have no idea what you don't know
Perfectly stated, as evidenced in her "final" post above... :rolleyes:

Anyone that is that dismissive in regards to caring for someone elses reef system, is the LAST person that should be in this biz.

[2004jeepoutlander]

i dont think anyone should do aquarium amntenece unless they hav ehad more than 4- 6 years fo experience jmho.

[tgreene]

Ironically, my so called "competition" in my area, is not and never has been a reefkeeper... Unfortunately however, he's a well liked local that's the son of a prominent physician, while my partner and I are both new to the community.

Even though we absolutely do know what we're doing and have both been avid reefkeepers for years, we're fighting an uphill battle, which is why we have to go all out and be able to provide for absolutely any and every situation that we may encounter.

We actually made the decision to start this biz, after the "competition" came to us on numerous occasions to pick our brains in regards to what we would consider to be the most basic and elementary procedures... This other guy absolutely didn't have a clue about much of anything, and would randomly show up at my door wanting me to test water samples for his various clients, with my high-end computerized testing equipment. He had never even heard of a refractometer, for God's sake!!! :hmm2:

Eventually, we asked him to take us on as partners, but he declined on numerous occasions, yet he still had the nerve to show up unannounced for what he hoped would be free testing. It stopped the day I informed him that he would have to pay me $50 for each water analysis, because my tools and chemicals are not for him to make money on. -- I had tested 3 times prior, because I can't stand to see livestock suffer.

On two separate occasions, this idiot actually brought rescue corals for me to "babysit" and heal back to health for a client of his... He (and I would assume the client) was rather upset when he later discovered that he would never be getting them back, because I don't run a frickin kennel.

Anyways, he still has most of his clients, but we're going after them all, one system at a time, and building a very solid name for ourselves in the process. ;)

[humbugy]

soo you said you would babysit his corals (who ever ownes them) i assume soo, since you took them, and then told him you wouldnt give them back, because you dont run a friggin kennel....just asking.

[tgreene]

I never once agreed to "babysit" anything, though he incorrectly assumed that I would! He brought them by and dropped them off one day, then a few weeks later indicated that he needed them back for his client -- Ummmmm, NO!

My system is no more of a wellness center or kennel, than yours or anyone elses...

If I'm going to accept the risk of placing something in my system from a different system of unknown parameters which are obviously not good (the corals were in bad shape), then take the time to properly care for them and get them back into thriving condition, then I do so with the understanding that they are mine, especially when I run the risk of potentially wiping out my own system in the process.

FWIW: On both occassions, the corals were in a bucket of very cold water that he had been hauling for several hours, in the middle of February. I would equate this to tying your dog to the bumper of your car, and dragging him to the vet... In either instance, you don't get em back! :mad2:

[humbugy]

well, nevermind the dogs and bumpers...how do you you think a bad day of coral shipping is for anybody on this planet, never bougth a coral around christmas??

then I do so with the understanding that they are mine

did you tell them that, the caretaker, or the owner of the aquarium??

If I'm going to accept the risk of placing something in my system from a different system of unknown parameters which are obviously not good (the corals were in bad shape), then take the time to properly care for them and get them back into thriving condition, then I do so with the understanding that they are mine, especially when I run the risk of potentially wiping out my own system in the process.

i have no problem with that what so ever, but from what im hearing, it sounds like that you went about this the other way, hey, its in my tank, its mine now, vs. ill nurse it back to health, but before i do that, just (you) understand, because of the risk im going to take, i am going to take ownership of the corals, they are my property now.

[tgreene]

I transport corals double bagged in double-lock ZipLock bags, placed inside a softside cooler, that is then wrapped with towels and placed inside of a larger cooler... If it's cold, then they get heat packs, and if hot, they get cold packs!

I don't make excuses for shipping during adverse weather conditions, because I maintain a level of preparedness at all times. Also, when I stock up of corals, I personally drive several hours to go and get them, pack them myself, and drive them home. I do this, because it's the only way that I can guarantee their safe transport, which their lives and MY investment both count on.

In regards to the issue as to who said or did what, I honestly can't recall exactly what may or may not have been stated or implied, but one thing was very clear, and that's that he repeatedly refused to want to form a partnership based upon his clientele and my knowledge, thus it was quite clear that his sole intent was to use me for his own financial gain, without ever intending to compensate me for any of my time or energies.

When someone shows up on your doorstep late at night with a bucket and says something to the effect of, "This is dying, see if you can save it.", it 's generally assumed by pretty much anyone with an ounce of logic, that it's not out on loan.

Furthermore, once he came to the understanding that he would no longer receive any type of information from me, he attempted to use my reefkeeping site to get the information, yet also made it very clear that he had no intentions of becoming a paying/contributing member. After my partner and I formed our own corporation and went into business against him, I nuked his IP from my server, so he was now SOL in regards to any of the knowledge and information that we share with our club members.

Rather than being allowed to continue to try to screw me, he ended up screwing himself and his own client(s).

It's a tough world out there, and it's even tougher for stupid people! ;)

[humbugy]

I transport corals double bagged in double-lock ZipLock bags, placed inside a softside cooler, that is then wrapped with towels and placed inside of a larger cooler... If it's cold, then they get heat packs, and if hot, they get cold packs!
witch would be fine for local transport, kudos to you.

In regards to the issue as to who said or did what, I honestly can't recall exactly what may or may not have been stated or implied
"On two separate occasions, this idiot actually brought rescue corals for me to "babysit" and heal back to health for a client of his... He (and I would assume the client) was rather upset when he later discovered that he would never be getting them back, because I don't run a frickin kennel."
sounds to me that he assumed he would get them back.....

When someone shows up on your doorstep late at night with a bucket and says something to the effect of, "This is dying, see if you can save it.", it 's generally assumed by pretty much anyone with an ounce of logic, that it's not out on loan.
well, assumptions is the mother of all ...............
if i took a coral to a fellow reefer, for them to nurse back to health because my tank is out of whack, i would like it back later, just reach an aggrement with the other reefer, the right thing to do would of course be to compensate the reefer for his trouble.

Furthermore, once he came to the understanding that he would no longer receive any type of information from me, he attempted to use my reefkeeping site to get the information, yet also made it very clear that he had no intentions of becoming a paying/contributing member. After my partner and I formed our own corporation and went into business against him, I nuked his IP from my server, so he was now SOL in regards to any of the knowledge and information that we share with our club members.
well, im glad that reefcentral is free.

It's a tough world out there, and it's even tougher for stupid people!
dosn't have to be...

[tgreene]

You said it best with "well, assumptions is the mother of all ...............", because absolutely everything you've attempted to pick apart, has been an ASSumption on your part.
:rolleyes:

-Tim

[rcypert]

What companies offer liability insurance for aquarium maintenance? Located in South Florida if that matters. I have been searching and no luck so far. Anyone care to point me in the right direction?

[uncleof6]

Well, this is an old one...

I don't know if you are just curious about the insurance, or are actually considering going into this business. But there are three things to look at: License, Bond, and Insurance.

Laws, Licensing requirements, etc. vary between states...

Licensing:

Business License
Contractor's License (be aware that a consumer is not legally required to pay a person that is not a state licensed contractor, and cannot be sued for non-payment.)

Resale License: so you don't pay the tax on materials, the customer does. When asked "How Much" on appications, or otherwise, for said license say: "I don't know." Don't even offer a guess. Perfectly legal to do, and avoids making an initial payment to the state towards sales tax.

Bond:
There are many different types of bonds. Consult an attorney.

Insurance:
General Liability insurance: Must have; Good sometimes but not in all cases. Protects you.
Catastrophe (Catastrophic) Liablity Insurance: (Or umbrella policy) Provides coverage over and above your General Liability limits. Saves your personal assets when your liability policy isn't enough; and a little water leak can be very expensive, and some salt deposits on a power strip causing a fire, that burns the house down, would be litagated with you as the defendant.

Business Liability Insurance in Florida: (not all inclusive)

https://www.google.com/search?q=business+liablilty+insurance+%22Florida%22&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

To the theme of this old thread:

Always consult an attorney, when drafting or considering any type of contract, and remember it is not enforceable, unless you are a licensed contractor.

When I was in business, I carried a General Contractors License, a C10 (electrical,) surety bonds per job, and both general and catastrophic liability insurance.

The above does not constitute any form of legal advice.

This following does not constitute an endorsement or recommendation:

http://advancedaquariumconcepts.com/how-to-start-an-aquarium-maintenance-company/