Help, my ph is reaching 8.9

[bnhd3]

For some reason my pH is reading super high. My alk. is 4.34meq/L. I have a cal reactor that I tried to start this weekend, but I have a bad needle valve on my CO2 regulator. I should be recieving a new needle valve later this week. The pH problem has been going on for over a week now. I see a lot of precipitation Throughout the sump and tank. Last night I used some distilled vinegar as a band aid. I did just as the article says. 1ml per gal. for .3 change. It came down for a good a 2-3 hours then it started climbing again. By the time I left my house this morning for work it was back up to 8.7. I have a Milwaukee controller and I just calibrated it a week ago upon recieving it.

[Dawman]

Have you tried water changes with no salt ?

[bertoni]

How was the controller calibrated?

Some seltzer water will reduce pH temporarily. That's safe as long as the pH reading is accurate. For the long term, this article might help:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-03/rhf/index.htm

Reducing the lighting might help, temporarily, and more aeration could do the trick, too.

[bnhd3]

I calibrated it using the 4.01 and 7.01 solution provided with the controller. I run my halides and pcs about 10hrs a day and my fuge light at night. I get plenty of aeration. My Aqua C skimmer aerates and so does the input to my fuge. I also have a 20g tied into my sysytem, and the return from it to my sump provides some aeration. I keep the windows to this room open all the time should I close them? I am just trying to find the root of the problem. I have some more calibration packets coming tommorow. I ordered some 7.01's and some 10.01's. I figure what I'm measuring is between these ranges so I will calibrate with 7.01 and 10.01 instead of 4.01 and 7.01 right?

[bnhd3]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10310867#post10310867 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bertoni
How was the controller calibrated?

Some seltzer water will reduce pH temporarily. That's safe as long as the pH reading is accurate. For the long term, this article might help:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-03/rhf/index.htm

Reducing the lighting might help, temporarily, and more aeration could do the trick, too.

I have been reading all of these articles. This is where I got the idea of using the vinegar.

[bertoni]

I think that the probe should be calibrated with a pH 10 solution for use on reef aquaria. I'd hold off on any dosing until that's been done, or you can get a second opinion.

[bnhd3]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10311653#post10311653 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bertoni
I think that the probe should be calibrated with a pH 10 solution for use on reef aquaria. I'd hold off on any dosing until that's been done, or you can get a second opinion.

I totally agree. I should have a new needle valve and some calibration packets tommorrow. What really leads me to believe the readings is the amount of precipitation on everything.

[bertoni]

Actually, just to be clear for future readers, I think that both the 7 and 10 pH calibration solutions should be used, instead of 4 and 7.

[bnhd3]

I got home from work today to find that my tank was a little cloudy. In the return compartment of my sump there was a thick wod of foam that I dipped out with a net. I'm glad I didn't over do it with the vinegar. So much for the vinegar trick. I will not be trying that again! Oh yeah, pH is still 8.8!

[bertoni]

Seltzer water is safer than vinegar because it doesn't encourage bacterial growth. I'd stick with that approach.

[Aquarist007]

but very slowly bring it down--right?

[bnhd3]

So the cloudiness in my tank is due to rapid bacteria growth right?

[Icefire]

CA reactor drop the ph normally.

Do you have another means to test ph?

[Aquarist007]

I just read back to the top of this thread-----have you made some water changes--I would do a 20 percent change immediately before dosing and then retest.

[bnhd3]

I am going to change about 25 gallons friday of saturday.

[Aquarist007]

that should at least clear up the cloudiness and bring down the pH quite a bit.

cloudiness is also indication of precipitation--not necessarily bacteria

[bnhd3]

I try to change 20-25 gallons every two weeks, but last weekend I tied in a 20g long to have a multipurpose tank and I figured since I was adding about 20g of water the change was not yet necessary.

[Aquarist007]

was the other tank cycled or was it an empty tank you added new salt water to?

[bertoni]

The cloud is likely bacterial in origin.

[Aquarist007]

thanks for bailing me out--as usual, Jonathan :)
Scott

[bnhd3]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10318241#post10318241 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by capn_hylinur
was the other tank cycled or was it an empty tank you added new salt water to?

I just added new saltwater. It was an old tank that I had in the garage. I had a local glass company cut a whole in it for me. I have the pipe supported now, this pic is right after finishing. here is a pic:
<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q134/bnhd3/add-ontank2002.jpg" border="0" alt="Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket"></a>

[xxpipedreamxx]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10311189#post10311189 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bnhd3
I calibrated it using the 4.01 and 7.01 solution provided with the controller. I run my halides and pcs about 10hrs a day and my fuge light at night. I get plenty of aeration. My Aqua C skimmer aerates and so does the input to my fuge. I also have a 20g tied into my sysytem, and the return from it to my sump provides some aeration. I keep the windows to this room open all the time should I close them? I am just trying to find the root of the problem. I have some more calibration packets coming tommorow. I ordered some 7.01's and some 10.01's. I figure what I'm measuring is between these ranges so I will calibrate with 7.01 and 10.01 instead of 4.01 and 7.01 right?

Shutting the windows would lead to a high concentration of carbon dioxide, which in turn would drop the pH. Just my two cents.

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10318754#post10318754 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bertoni
The cloud is likely bacterial in origin.

If that is the case then the water changes plus increasing the flow in the tank should help clear up the tank and bring the pH down.

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10324391#post10324391 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by xxpipedreamxx
Shutting the windows would lead to a high concentration of carbon dioxide, which in turn would drop the pH. Just my two cents.

I don't know if I would want to recommend increasing the co2 in my tanks
I am faced with the opposite problem right now--my pH is low but my alkalinity is high so buffers are not the answer.
I do not want to get into a limewater drip(kalkwater) at this time
If I had alot of sps corals which I don't then this could be a problem.

[xxpipedreamxx]

If you have ever taken a CO2 reading in your home, I am sure you would be shocked.

[humbugy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10319425#post10319425 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bnhd3
I just added new saltwater. It was an old tank that I had in the garage. I had a local glass company cut a whole in it for me. I have the pipe supported now, this pic is right after finishing. here is a pic:
<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q134/bnhd3/add-ontank2002.jpg" border="0" alt="Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket"></a>

on another note, i would put a wall bracket on that pipe soo its not torquing on your bulkhead.

[bnhd3]

You know I was just thinking about flow. I have a mag 9.5 return right now. I have a mag 12 in my garage. Now that I have added the 20g tank to the system I might benefit from having the flow of a mag 12. My display has two returns and I have t-ed off of one to go to my 20g multipurpose tank, which has decreased the flow to my display.

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10324465#post10324465 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by xxpipedreamxx
If you have ever taken a CO2 reading in your home, I am sure you would be shocked.
No i wouldn't :)

We have had a heat wave for the last month --the house is new and well insulated. We don't want to open the windows because the air is on.
Coincidentaly my pH has been unstable alternating from 8.2 to 7.8(not considering the natural night shift)
last night we got some cooler air finally and we kept all the windows and screen doors open for the first time.
wow---pH was 7.8 last night and 8.09 this morning--7 hrs later.

[xxpipedreamxx]

Thats always nice about cold fronts. I wish I could keep my windows open more often. Its so hot here, on a normal day it runs a heat index of 105 or better. With the ceiling fans, other fans, and ac running nonstop it barely drops below 80 degrees in here. When I start feeling sluggish during the day is when I open a window anyways. I had a problem with my pH dropping to near 7.0 for a while during an incredibly hot time... but lately it has remained at a nearly steady 8.4 which probably has something to do with the kalk I started dripping :)

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10325329#post10325329 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by xxpipedreamxx
Thats always nice about cold fronts. I wish I could keep my windows open more often. Its so hot here, on a normal day it runs a heat index of 105 or better. With the ceiling fans, other fans, and ac running nonstop it barely drops below 80 degrees in here. When I start feeling sluggish during the day is when I open a window anyways. I had a problem with my pH dropping to near 7.0 for a while during an incredibly hot time... but lately it has remained at a nearly steady 8.4 which probably has something to do with the kalk I started dripping :)

yeah I was about to switch to kalk because I was using buffers and they were driving up my alkalinity level to high.

the sluggishness is a good point for everyone---alot of people feel tired and blame it on the heat--but it is really more carbon dioxide less oxygen then normal

do you have any sps in your tank---I would think that would be a concern with that much variation in your pH?

[ieatqiue]

you HAVE TO do something about that drain pipe. It WILL crack that glass, i think youre lucky it hasnt yet.. i would hate to see it bust on you...

[xxpipedreamxx]

My tank was a full blown Acropora tank. I had no issues whatsoever. I housed all acropora's, an RBTA and a pair of black and white clowns. I recently sold everything but my clowns, nem and one rock and transfered them to a 15 gallon tank. My husband just recently had a command change (USN) and complained that I needed to spend more time with him than the tank. hehe. I had no pH shifts while the SPS reef was up. It was cooler outside and the windows were always open. When it started to fall the tiniest bit, I would pump air inside through a pump. Too tedious if ya ask me.

Yes I definitely blame my sluggishness on the CO2. I feel better the moment I go outside to let my daughter play. That's when it is time to open some windows and leave the ac running to clear out the house.

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10325474#post10325474 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by xxpipedreamxx
My tank was a full blown Acropora tank. I had no issues whatsoever. I housed all acropora's, an RBTA and a pair of black and white clowns. I recently sold everything but my clowns, nem and one rock and transfered them to a 15 gallon tank. My husband just recently had a command change (USN) and complained that I needed to spend more time with him than the tank. hehe. I had no pH shifts while the SPS reef was up. It was cooler outside and the windows were always open. When it started to fall the tiniest bit, I would pump air inside through a pump. Too tedious if ya ask me.

Yes I definitely blame my sluggishness on the CO2. I feel better the moment I go outside to let my daughter play. That's when it is time to open some windows and leave the ac running to clear out the house.

we are agreeing kind of here---you had acropora but you had very stable pH---I think this is what I was getting at :)
PS:
I understanding and respect your husband career choice---I have a daughter who is a leutenant in the Canadian forces and a son in law who just came back from six months in Afganistan.

[xxpipedreamxx]

I understood what you were getting at :) I am glad that I had sold them before the summer problems arose. I made a hefty profit from it as well. lol.

[bnhd3]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10325469#post10325469 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ieatqiue
you HAVE TO do something about that drain pipe. It WILL crack that glass, i think youre lucky it hasnt yet.. i would hate to see it bust on you...

I was not going to say anything , but this is the second time someone has commented on it. If you read the post with the picture I tell you in it that the picture was taken right after I finished the project. I built a support for it immediately after the picture was taken. So it is supported. I just didn't take any more pics after I put the supports up.

[xxpipedreamxx]

Some people just don't listen do they?

:)

[bnhd3]

Well today I recieved all my packets of calibration solutions. I calibrated my controller to 7.01 and 10.01. Keep in mind that a week ago I calibrated it with the 4.01 and a 7.01 packets that came with it. Well before I recalibrated today my reading was 8.8. After calibration it was 8.0. How in the heck did the controller get so out of whack so quick, or was it just that I calibrated it with 4.01 and 7.01 instead of 7.01 and 10.01? I also got my new needle valve for my co2 regulator. So now I've got my reactor up and running! Hopefully I can now keep the pH under control.

[bertoni]

That pH sounds much more reasonable! Sounds good!

[bnhd3]

But how were those initial readings so far off when I calibrated the controller a week ago? Basically what I am asking is how could the controller get so far out of whack so quick or was it just that I calibrated it with 4.01 and 7.01 instead of 7.01 and 10.01 to begin with?

[bertoni]

I wouldn't trust a meter calibrated only with 4.01 and 7.01 buffers for measuring a reef tank.

[bnhd3]

Thanks for all your help. My pH has been bouncing between 8.1 and 8.2 all day and so far tonight hasn't dropped below 8.0!