heater ideas

[kl3377]

I have a 120 with a 25 gallon refugium and my 7 month old Finnex heater with controller has already rendered itself useless. I am looking for some suggestions on what to buy. I want something accurate (obviously) but I would also like something that will last a reasonable amount of time. Thanks

[BeanAnimal]

There are NO good hobby heaters. Dozens of folks will chime in and blindly state that their "xyz brand" heater has never given them problems in 20 years. The reality is that for every person that has had good luck with a brand, dozens have faced disaster.

The fact is that they are all junk.

Buy yourself several small heaters (stay away from the Won Bros and the Finnex) and hook them to a RANCO temperature controller.

In other words if you determined that you need 1000 Watts to maintain your temperature on the worst days of the year...

Then buy (4) 250W heaters or (6) 200W heaters. Hook them to the RANCO and set their thermostats a few degrees above the target temperature of the RANCO.

The integral thermostats will not cycle on and off and will therefore not wear out. They will however be ready in case the RANCO sticks on (A very rare event).

RANCOS are industrial/commercial controllers that have a failure rate that is magnitudes lowers than any piece of hobby equipment sold.

You can get a single stage unit for less than $100. Don't skimp, it is one of the most important life support systems in your setup.

[BeanAnimal]

I neglected to explain why you want several small heaters...

Very simple, if one or more fail, the tank will still be heated by the remaining units. Even if they can't fully keep up, the loss of tank temperature will be VERY slow.

It would not be overkill to split them into TWO RANCOS (In case one of the RANCOS fails to turn on).

[kl3377]

Thanks for the info.

[BeanAnimal]

No problem. Just pass on what you learn and less people will have nuked tanks.

[theatrus]

Agreed, its very very good advice to have two redundant heater paths. Depending on your climate, two temperature controllers with probes in two locations makes more sense. That way your tank can be heated should one temp controller fail in the off position (or the temp probe falls out and lands on a hot pump, etc).

[BeanAnimal]

ALWAYS make sure that a controllers temperature probe is in the same compartment as the heaters! The probe should be upstream of the actual heaters that it controls.

If they are NOT in the same compartment a pump failure or other problem could cause the probe to give a false reading.

Take the most basic example. Heaters in the sump, probe in the display tank. You turn off the return pump to feed the fish. You neglect to turn it back on and go to bed. Overnight, the tank temp drops a few degrees. Because the probe is in the display, the heaters will turn on and heat the sump water. The temp will never rise in the display. Water temperature in the sump will easily reach well over 100 or more degrees. Guess what happens when you stroll back in and turn on the return pump!

[Sooners]

Why would the sump be over a 100 degrees? In your scenario, had you set the heater a couple degrees above the ranco, the ranco would have kept the power going to the heater, but the heater would have turned itself off at the slightly higher temperature. (I think.)

[Fishbulb2]

That's right sooners. But Bean was giving an example of what happens in the worst case scenerio. You should do both safety measures 1) turn the heater thermostat just above the Ranco and 2) keep the probe and heater in the same compartment.

[Sooners]

Makes sense.

[jbarnaby]

I totally get the multiple heater reasoning, but I was wondering on that same line of thinking...would it be better to put some of the heating elements in the tank and some in the sump?? or should they all be in the sump??

[kl3377]

Has anyone wired their own controller or does everyone buy them prewired?

[Fishbulb2]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10322375#post10322375 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jbarnaby
I totally get the multiple heater reasoning, but I was wondering on that same line of thinking...would it be better to put some of the heating elements in the tank and some in the sump?? or should they all be in the sump??

They should all go with the probe to which they are referenced. So if you really want to have some in the sump and some in the tank, then get two rancos and put one set of heaters and temp probe in the tank, and the other set of heaters and probe in the sump. I would just go all in the sump personally.

[Kentanner11]

I was listening to melev's podcasts (which are great by the way) and he was away and his return pump broke/had issues and was not pushing water into the tank. All of his heaters were in the sump, anyways NO heat was getting into the tank, because all the heaters were in the sump.... I am not one (yet) to have controllers, but why not put one...(or two) in the tank just incase?

[sjm817]

I use an ACjr, probe in tank (overflow), 2 heaters in the basement sump. Works really well. The heaters have their own thermostats set to a couple degrees higher than controller which would prevent an overheat in the event of a controller/probe/pump failure.

[kl3377]

I have one question. Will the dual unit run two heaters or is one of the functions for a chiller and the other a heater? This is the unit that I am looking at but I am not sure if the sensor can be submersed in saltwater http://www.rancoetc.com/ranco-etc211000000-stage-prewired-temperature-controller-p-110.html?osCsid=10139a48186914e590b5e8733044160d

Thanks for all the info.

[swilliamson]

The pre-wired models are sealed and submersible. The electrical cords aren't sealed at the ends where you plug in the heaters. Whether it can handle your heaters depends on the amperage of the heaters you plan on plugging into it. That model you're looking at is rated at 9.8 amps. That's about 1100 watts. You should be able to handle an average load for your tank but to make sure I’d email (sales@rancoetc.com) them these questions too just to double check.

Let me also say I agree completely with BeanAnimal.

IME another consideration is to ensure your total heating capacity is appropriate to your system. Heaters aren't designed to be constantly on. This can lead to premature wear and failure. (Most modern heaters are designed to fail off.)

There are more accurate methods to estimate your requirement but a simple, beginner rule of thumb is about 5 watts per gallon (total system volume) for a smaller system and about 3 watts for larger. Heaters are cheap so I don't see any reason to skimp on them.

[kl3377]

My Ranco (Dual) came in this week and I also order 2 200W RenaCal heaters to go with it. I like the simplicity of programming the unit I just hope it last longer then the POC Finnex it is replacing. I did buy an extra sensor to hopefully avoid any down time.