Amino acids.

[cato]

For those who do or have done. I bought a bottle of Zeovit amino acids. What's the way most dose this stuff. Return pumps off?? Skimmer off?? Just add it directly and let it go. I'm using it primarily to increase sps polyp extension when feeding. I only feed my sps twice weekly. Do I only dose on the days I feed? Or should I dose daily. FYI I am being conservative by only dosing 1/2 the per gallon recommended dosages. TIA.

[kkris]

Dose in front of return or feed pump on feeding days. Start slow, if you have algae on your glass, cut back dosing. HTH

[heretolearn]

you can dose daily but dose VERY light . cant say a dosing i dont know your tank size .i dose AAHC daily 1 drop for a 170gal total .
works well for me .

[ReefRockerLive]

Remember to be patient and dose in small amounts, in time you may see results. I'm dosing the FM UltraMin S and within 2.5 weeks of dosing I began noticing much better polyp extension on some acros. Now I have great polyp extension on all acros.

[jhebi]

where can i get it? And does it really helps?

thanks

alex

[ReefRockerLive]

From my experience, it works if you don't rush it. Jhebi, I recommend trying the Fauna Marin UltraMin S which you can get a Aquarium Obsessed.

[jhebi]

Cool, will order and try it.....

Do you dose everyday, does it come with instructions?

thanks

alex

[ReefWreak]

I doubt that this is how to really do it, but I've been dosing Salifert's Amino acid supplement for a few weeks now. I just add 2 or 3 good squirts into the tank with the sump pump and skimmer off, like 30 minutes before I feed the tank cyclopeeze at night.

I do it every other night or so. The reason I don't measure the dosages is because I've heard that the nice thing about using AA instead of sugar or other stuff is that if you overdose, it just means you get more algae on your glass the next day. Also because salifert only suggest a 30ml dose for my tank size, but once a week, and most people dose every day.

I haven't noticed any difference in my corals or PE. They've been growing like crazy since I started doing 2part dosing, but short of that, not much else has been noticable. I'm getting a nice Deltec calcium reactor next week, so I'll see if that gives them another growth spurt, having consistent dripping of water vs. the current system which makes the alk and CA come in bursts. Sorry for the de-rail.

[ReefRockerLive]

jhebi, the bottle will recommend that you dose daily. Like ReefWreak mentioned, overdosing isn't really an issue since you only get algae growth overnight. When you first begin, dose with a salifert syringe because it is only 1 ml and your dosages will be more precise. Also, to slowly adjust your tank to the Amino Acids, dose about 30%-40% less than the recommended dosage, this way the change in the tank will be slow.

ReefWreak, as a suggestion, if you become more consistant with your dosages you may see a difference in both coloration and polyp extension. I was once inconsistant with the dosages, but when I became more dedicated to dosing daily, things changed for the better.

[ReefWreak]

Thanks ReefRockerLive. I'll see what I can do as far as making it more consistent. I don't think I'll get better PE anyway though because I've got dwarf angels.

[brianbigoats]

i dose KZ AA on my 90 2 drops per day i have insane PE you might also Try KZ CV with AA seem to work best together

[Serioussnaps]

Does anyone have the list of what is actually IN what you are dosing?

[ReefRockerLive]

Serioussnaps-Here's what's in FM's UltraMin S:

Contents:
Water
Glucose Monohydrate
Magnesium Sulfate
Potassium Chloride
Ethylene Acetate
Sodium Acetate
L-Arginin Hydrochloride
L-Histidin Hydrochloride
Taurine
L-Threonine
DL-Tryptophane
Glycine
DL-Valine
Thiamin Chloride 100 mg
Nicotinamide 1500 mg
Riboflavine 40 mg
Dexpanthenole
Pridoxine Hydrochloride 100 mg
Cyanococobalamine
Sodium Methyl-4-Hydroxybenzoate
More than 70 trace elements

:)

[DankReefer]

Anyone have any experience using the seachem amino acids? This is what my LFS stocks and i can get a good price on it.

[espenlg]

I'm dosing 10ml of Sailferts amino acids every other day on my 45gal.. Is that to much? I don't really have a alge-problem on the glass... Is that the only indicator of the right dosage?

[ReefRockerLive]

Espenlg, a common sign of overdosing AA is overnight algal growth. If your not getting that then, no it's not too much.

[Serioussnaps]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10357835#post10357835 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ReefRockerLive
Serioussnaps-Here's what's in FM's UltraMin S:

Contents:
Water
Glucose Monohydrate
Magnesium Sulfate
Potassium Chloride
Ethylene Acetate
Sodium Acetate
L-Arginin Hydrochloride
L-Histidin Hydrochloride
Taurine
L-Threonine
DL-Tryptophane
Glycine
DL-Valine
Thiamin Chloride 100 mg
Nicotinamide 1500 mg
Riboflavine 40 mg
Dexpanthenole
Pridoxine Hydrochloride 100 mg
Cyanococobalamine
Sodium Methyl-4-Hydroxybenzoate
More than 70 trace elements

:)

Thanks! At least they tell you whats in it as most dont.

Anyone tried dosing a little sugar with their AA's to prevent the algae growth. Someone mentioned sugar causing algal growth, but it is actually the other way around IME.

[Obi-dad]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10361724#post10361724 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Serioussnaps
Thanks! At least they tell you whats in it as most dont.

Anyone tried dosing a little sugar with their AA's to prevent the algae growth. Someone mentioned sugar causing algal growth, but it is actually the other way around IME.

Sugar is one of the ingredients in the Ultramin S - glucose monohydrate.

[Onesaltydawg]

Does anyone have any Chemistry info on AA's in the tank?

[kev apsley]

I tend to agree...I have been dosing FM"s Ultramin for about 3 weeks and I must say that I do see a definite increase in PE and color... You have to dose slightly lower than recommended amount then slowly raise it over time because you will get a cyano bloom if you dose too much at one time

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10361724#post10361724 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Serioussnaps
Thanks! At least they tell you whats in it as most dont.

Anyone tried dosing a little sugar with their AA's to prevent the algae growth. Someone mentioned sugar causing algal growth, but it is actually the other way around IME.

Snaps, you do realize that the 2nd (largest) ingredient in those AAs IS sugar, right?


Basically, its sugar, some epsom salts, and nitrate.

[glassbox-design]

nitrate? far from, this is organic nitrogen...quite a difference.

[RichConley]

Not really.


Corals can uptake either, and just end up breaking down organic nitrogen into nitrate.

[glassbox-design]

that's great and all, but the ingredients do not contain nitrate, they contain amino acids which are a form of organic nitrogen which are used for more than just corals...:rolleyes:

[FoothillCorals]

I would have to agree with Rich. Nitrate, ammonia, organic nitrogen what ever you are calling it they are all forms of nitrogen A.K.A. algae fertilizer.

I am using AAs and I am not sure if it really helps or not. Started using them 4-5 weeks ago. I saw a much bigger improvment when I started using it with Papone 2-3 weeks ago.

[glassbox-design]

again yes they are all forms of nitrogen, that's great. but nitrate does not increase PE. nitrate does not have the same effect on bacteria as aa's, organic nitrogen....it's not as simple as labeling them all the same...

it's like blanketing alk...elevated borate anyone?

[Fliger]

I had all my SPS in a practically zero bioload holding tank. SPS were losing color at a rapid pace. I found a bottle of KZ AA's and dosed, two days later Elos Omega AA's came in. Deeper colors and better PE was noticed literally in a few days. In a nutrient rich system they probably don't do much, but in a low nutrient I am certain they have positive effects. I wish Paletta woud have around here and give his thoughts, I've heard he's got some pretty positive opinions on them as well.

You can listen to all sorts of people with theories and no practical experience (there are a lot of those types on RC). But this bottle cost me $35 and it will last me a year probably so I'll continue to use it.

[MCsaxmaster]

How much do bottles of this stuff cost?

[danlu_gt]

Doesn't fresh seafood have amino acids? Why not just blend some fresh seafood?

[Big E]

In a nutrient rich system they probably don't do much, but in a low nutrient I am certain they have positive effects.

I would re-phrase that as a system that has light washed out colors, AA's will show as an effect. In a system with deeper colors they are a waste of money.

[Fliger]

Sure, that works too. I wouldn't say "waste of money" - thats impossible to really know, they obviously help in certain systems (washed our or low nutrient) so who can say if they help in systems with deeper colors or not? To our eye the benefits might not be visible but you can't rule out that it doesn't help in overall health. I'm a competitive runner and usually :lol: I look like one. You wouldn't notice if I did or didn't eat that bag of saturated fat loaded potato chips, or if I was getting enough antioxidants or not - but obviously certain choices will help my overall health. It "might" be a waste of money, but it might not. It might give SPS the extra strength that could help it live through a temp spike, or DKH issue. So I'll keep using them.

MCsax - the prices are all over the board. KZ, Elos, Salifert all vary. I think the Elos cost about $38 USD and lasts a very long time, I don't remember what I paid for the KZ stuff.

[ReefRockerLive]

Here's what I found for pricing:

FM UltraMinS- $19.99 (100ml)
KZ AAHC- $41.99 (50ml)

[MCsaxmaster]

Holy moly! $42 for a 50 ml bottle!?! I think I'll stick to some more economical food sources. Sheesh :rolleyes:

[Paradox009]

where do you buy the elos brand?

[RichConley]

Just add more fish, or feed more. Theres no reason to pay for this stuff.

[ReefRockerLive]

Paradox, if you contact Jesse on the Elos Forum, he should be able to ship you a bottle.

RichConley, feedmore? "just" add more fish? Fish foods contain some of the aminos from that of a bottle such as UltraMin S. Feeding more only means that you will increase nutrient levels which is not what you want to do in an SPS tank. You make it sound like adding more fish will give you all the amino acids from a bottle. Adding more fish will increase the chances of darkening your corals, but this is not the primary purpose of amino acids, nor can it be considered an alternative. Also, depending on what kind of fish one may like, it might end up being more expensive than simply buying a bottle of amino acids.

[GSMguy]

also fish grow and sometimes you want more controll over nutrients?

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10501775#post10501775 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ReefRockerLive
Paradox, if you contact Jesse on the Elos Forum, he should be able to ship you a bottle.

RichConley, feedmore? "just" add more fish? Fish foods contain some of the aminos from that of a bottle such as UltraMin S. Feeding more only means that you will increase nutrient levels which is not what you want to do in an SPS tank. You make it sound like adding more fish will give you all the amino acids from a bottle. Adding more fish will increase the chances of darkening your corals, but this is not the primary purpose of amino acids, nor can it be considered an alternative. Also, depending on what kind of fish one may like, it might end up being more expensive than simply buying a bottle of amino acids.

Umm , yes, adding amino acids IS to make your corals darker, because theyre already washed out. And YES, fishfood/waste contains ALL of the amino acids you're adding. Where do you think the corals get them in the wild. If you have proper nutrient export, which you obviously do, if you have coral lightening, adding more fish will do the same thing as adding amino acids.


Theres nothing magic in these amino acid bottles. Whats the first ingredient in most of them? Water, then some form of glucose, then some form of nitrogen. Yeah, you're dosing sugar and nitrate.

[Fliger]

Don't bother, Rich knows everything about flow, skimming, lighting, and obviously now aminos - and there is only Rich's way. Which is why we see so many pictures of his insanely colorful & fast growing corals! Anything other than his way is surely futile & a waste of money. ;)

[mpoletti]

Do you take vitamins? I hope not; because all you are taking are vegatables and other essential elements that are found in food.

[MCsaxmaster]

RichConley, feedmore? "just" add more fish? Fish foods contain some of the aminos from that of a bottle such as UltraMin S. Feeding more only means that you will increase nutrient levels which is not what you want to do in an SPS tank. You make it sound like adding more fish will give you all the amino acids from a bottle. Adding more fish will increase the chances of darkening your corals, but this is not the primary purpose of amino acids, nor can it be considered an alternative. Also, depending on what kind of fish one may like, it might end up being more expensive than simply buying a bottle of amino acids.

Umm , yes, adding amino acids IS to make your corals darker, because theyre already washed out. And YES, fishfood/waste contains ALL of the amino acids you're adding. Where do you think the corals get them in the wild. If you have proper nutrient export, which you obviously do, if you have coral lightening, adding more fish will do the same thing as adding amino acids.

Rich is, by an large, correct. Fish foods (or really, any kind of food) will have all of the amino acids contained in the bottles, as well as a number of them that won't store well in the bottles. Fish food, homemade mush, or whatever is going to be as good or a better source of amino acids (not to mention other nutrients) for corals as compared DFAAs in a bottle.

Also, feeding will increase the availability of nutrients to the corals, which is exactly what you DO want, not what you want to avoid.... Dosing amino acids does the same thing....

May I just note that one needn't have more fish to add more food to their aquariums or to feed their corals. If the corals are getting insufficient food, there's no need to add more fish to the tank or to track down a bottle of DFAAs, just feed the corals!

Theres nothing magic in these amino acid bottles. Whats the first ingredient in most of them? Water, then some form of glucose, then some form of nitrogen. Yeah, you're dosing sugar and nitrate.

While I'd agree that there's no magic to dosing DFAAs (far from it!) the effect of dosing DFAAs vs. nitrate vs. fish food is not necessarily the same, just like a piece of steak vs. bean curd vs. a shot of taurine would not elicit the same responses out of me. Corals will take up ammonia, nitrate, DFAAs and particulate food (not to mention different kinds of particulate food) at different rates, will partition the nutrition between coral and zooxanthellae differently and will gain benefit somewhat differently for these differences.

Chris

[Big E]

Sure, that works too. I wouldn't say "waste of money" - thats impossible to really know, they obviously help in certain systems (washed our or low nutrient) so who can say if they help in systems with deeper colors or not?

People with good colors don't worry about adding AA or other additives to color up their corals. They don't need them.

It "might" be a waste of money, but it might not. It might give SPS the extra strength that could help it live through a temp spike, or DKH issue. So I'll keep using them

This reads as total conjecture & BS. Why not add any coral additive in case it "might" help the coral? AA's are just another fad going through the hobby right now. I won't be wasting my money anytime soon.

I've tried a few brands in the past & they had no positive effects worth noting.

[Fliger]

"Big E", every tank has different nutrient input and output. Twice - I've started adding AA's (KZ and Elos) to low nutrient tanks and saw deeper colors/better PE very quickly. Many others have done the same. In tanks with deep colors already, like I said - who knows. There are plenty of very experienced reefers who think otherwise, "Big E". I still have plenty of the bottle left so even though my color has improved - I'll use the rest of the bottle. I also just got done with a 6 mile run, and I'll eat a healthy breakfast as well.

Here is some conjecture and BS.

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/picrender.fcgi?artid=1218179&blobtype=pdf

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10505627#post10505627 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Fliger
"Big E", every tank has different nutrient input and output. Twice - I've started adding AA's (KZ and Elos) to low nutrient tanks and saw deeper colors/better PE very quickly. Many others have done the same. In tanks with deep colors already, like I said - who knows. There are plenty of very experienced reefers who think otherwise, "Big E". I still have plenty of the bottle left so even though my color has improved - I'll use the rest of the bottle. I also just got done with a 6 mile run, and I'll eat a healthy breakfast as well.

Here is some conjecture and BS.

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/picrender.fcgi?artid=1218179&blobtype=pdf

No one is saying Aminos aren't used. What we're saying is that you'd get more aminos from just feeding more. Yeah, colors improved in those low nutrient tanks, but color would have improved if you just started feeding more.


McSaxmaster, yeah, you can just feed more. But IMO, its more fun to add more fish, and feed those fish. Otherwise I just feel like I'm wasting food (not that its necessarily the case)



While I'd agree that there's no magic to dosing DFAAs (far from it!) the effect of dosing DFAAs vs. nitrate vs. fish food is not necessarily the same, just like a piece of steak vs. bean curd vs. a shot of taurine would not elicit the same responses out of me. Corals will take up ammonia, nitrate, DFAAs and particulate food (not to mention different kinds of particulate food) at different rates, will partition the nutrition between coral and zooxanthellae differently and will gain benefit somewhat differently for these differences.

I agree, but my point in making that statement, is that most of these amino acid supplements dont have all that many amino acids in them. Theyre mostly water, sugar, and a nitrate source. Someone posted a couple of ingredient lists a couple of days ago, for a couple of the commercial amino acid preperations, and they were almost all sugar, water, and nitrate.

[glassbox-design]

dp

[glassbox-design]

again nitrogen, not nitrate... it's not L-glutamineNO3 ;)

amino's have a place imo. PE increases, i could careless if thats a good thing or not, it looks better and is more attractive to see polyps swaying.

they also are a "clean" source. you can slightly darken colors without worrying about po4. my tank is "in balance" so to speak and i dont use GFO. anymore food and i get algae from a slight increase in po4, but with aminos once weekly i can darken colors without having to clean my glass as often.

not to mention the possible effect on bacteria in my system...

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10506062#post10506062 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Flint&Eric
again nitrogen, not nitrate... it's not L-glutamineNO3 ;)

amino's have a place imo. PE increases, i could careless if thats a good thing or not, it looks better and is more attractive to see polyps swaying.


No, Flint, Nitrate. Read the bottles that are actually labeled. Yes, the bottles have organic nitrogen in them, but theres also flat out nitrate added.

Also, feeding increases PE just as much as AA. The issue here is you guys have starved your corals. FEED THE TANK.


they also are a "clean" source. you can slightly darken colors without worrying about po4. my tank is "in balance" so to speak and i dont use GFO. anymore food and i get algae from a slight increase in po4, but with aminos once weekly i can darken colors without having to clean my glass as often.


Then you're feeding the wrong foods.

[glassbox-design]

other companies who's aa ingredients i have seen do not have nitrate in them. perhaps i skipped over FM's...i'lll go back and take a look.

my tank is far from starved, and my corals have great colors.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y76/jettachez/nanabefore.jpg


Then you're feeding the wrong foods.

please educate me, what foods will not add any po4 to the water?

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10506268#post10506268 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Flint&Eric


please educate me, what foods will not add any po4 to the water?

Anything that has a relatively high level of nitrogen and carbon.

[GSMguy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10506310#post10506310 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RichConley
Anything that has a relatively high level of nitrogen and carbon.

Rich how do you know what has low levels and what has high levels can you actually detect the amount of carbon and notrogen in a flake of food. and do you test every batch of food?



some people like the control that aminos give. why knock it as a rediculous waste of time.

[MiddletonMark]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10506268#post10506268 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Flint&Eric
please educate me, what foods will not add any po4 to the water?
Please educate me on what foods/aminos can provide all the requirements of coral nutrition - and not contain anything that could turn into PO4?

AFAIK, corals need Phosphate like they need Nitrogen to live.

[MCsaxmaster]

Said like a man who wants his corals to have DNA, RNA, and cell membranes ;)

[Big E]

Fliger,

It's great that the AA's worked for you, but some are missing the point that Rich Conley has pointed out above. Why get rapped by these manufacturers for these little bottles of food when you can reach the same goal much less expensively?

Think about it...........why does every manufacturer now offer AA's when hardly anyone did 2-3 years ago? It's all hype, they're gonna sell whatever is hot at the moment & steal your money.

[glassbox-design]

i dont get raped, i make my own...a friend develops sport supplements and has access to pure aa's....to my benefit :)

Please educate me on what foods/aminos can provide all the requirements of coral nutrition - and not contain anything that could turn into PO4?

my corals are receving their nutrition from the foods already being fed. i dont think anyone here is saying aa's will substitute feeding your fish well. i add aa's in addition, and unless i severely OD, which i have on many occassions i do not get algae like i do with a slight increase in feeding my fish. my bio-load is maxed and i have found my "fish food" max...aa's let me push that a little bit farther.

jme.

[MiddletonMark]

Flint+Eric ... I'm just suggesting that those AA's likely will degrade to PO4 too. Just like fish food/etc.

[glassbox-design]

i understand, but in my case it's fairly evident that they are being utilized. as i see no increase in po4, measurable and no increase in algae is seen.

again this is just my experience, in my tank i find them as a benefit...but i will say that in general most would not benefit from the addition of aa's.

[Fliger]

I guess I manage my reef differently. I do not feed my fish a ton, I like to limit my biomass input. I don't like excessive foods falling to the SB, where the snails and crabs fight over it, the crabs kill the snails, the sand bed fills - etc. I feed minimally. I also typically run an oversized skimmer to pull out nutrients quicker and run carbon & GFO. I also cured or cooked my rock for a very long time. I like a low nutrient tank - void of most nutrients - and add them in as needed. I watch my fish to make sure they are healthy enough - but not so fat & happy that they don't clean my rock. My tank has always remained very clean, I don't get algae, don't have to clean my glass often, my water stays clear and my corals typically stay pretty healthy this way. They were healthy before - but just a little healthier now.

I agree that there are lots of wastes of money out there. I don't use zeovit, or ANY additives. Just water changes, fish food, ca/alk/mg - and aminos. Its really not that expensive, no one is getting rich off of it. The $35 bottle I bought will probably last me a year - so I wouldn't say it costs any more than just feeding more mysis or CE or whatever. This way I don't have to feed as much, and a few times a week I add several drops of AA's. I also don't believe all AA's that are available are the same.

I'm not trying to say use AA's, it makes no difference to me who uses or doesn't use them - just noting that it does work for some people in some situations. There are many ways to a successful reef - this is just one thing that after seeing an improvement - I have no doubt they are having a positive effect. If you feed a ton, I totally agree that it would probably do the same thing - I just don't do it that way - and I really don't think it costs me any more money. Mysis and CE and other frozen foods are pretty darn expensive.

Regarding 2-3 years, I know Elos has been making them for ten years - I have no idea about the others. Europe tends to be a few years ahead of us in technology (DE, T5, NW skimmers, etc) and have been into the low nutrient methodology for a while longer. So maybe the need was there. With US reefers going towards bigger skimmers, barebottom and lower nutrient tanks - we saw a lot of people talking about colors fading. And many of those reefers noticed immediate improvements when starting to use AA's.

Anyhoooo ... just posting my experiences. Maybe its a waste of money - but its not a lot of money, and I like money. :) I have a good friend who has an incredible SPS tank, DSB, feeds his prized wrasses a TON, just just got a bottle to try. I'm interested to see if he sees any visual differences. I'll ask him to post his experiences if he uses them. I kinda doubt with the rich colors he has, that he'll see a difference. Lots of ways to skin a cat.

[MCsaxmaster]

Depending on the purity of the other "stuff" in the bottles I wouldn't think there should be much phosphate in them. The amino acids themselves don't contain phosphorus. The 20 common amino acids (of which only a subset are in these solutions) contain N, C, H, O, and in cysteine and methionine S, but there is no P in the structure of any of them. As for what else is in the bottle, who knows?

cj

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10506971#post10506971 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Fliger
I guess I manage my reef differently. I do not feed my fish a ton, I like to limit my biomass input. I don't like excessive foods falling to the SB, where the snails and crabs fight over it, the crabs kill the snails, the sand bed fills - etc. I feed minimally. I also typically run an oversized skimmer to pull out nutrients quicker and run carbon & GFO. I also cured or cooked my rock for a very long time. I like a low nutrient tank - void of most nutrients - and add them in as needed. I watch my fish to make sure they are healthy enough - but not so fat & happy that they don't clean my rock. My tank has always remained very clean, I don't get algae, don't have to clean my glass often, my water stays clear and my corals typically stay pretty healthy this way. They were healthy before - but just a little healthier now..

So the issue at heart here, is you can't feed enough because you're worried about the sandbed?


Up your flow. Feed more. Or pay $50 per 50ml. Its up to you.

[Fliger]

I have plenty of flow, trust me. Like I said before Rich - you are an expert on everything and every other way MUST be wrong. I should sell my equipment and forget my 18 years of saltwater tanks and mimic your tank. Are we still sticking to the same story of why we never see full tank shots, Rich?

And I apologize in advance MiddletonMark (Mod) if that was out of line. I just find it funny when people know EVERYTHING and we never see anything but posts. Some reefers have autosigs specifically talking about these types.

I think the price was $34, btw - and it will last me at least six months. And if I were anal enough to figure out how much I save on frozen foods, it might just offset that. But I'm not. ;)

Anyway, unsubscribing now. This is just silly.

[DrDNA]

FWIW, I tried some of the Elos AA's and have to say I agree with Rich Conley. My tank is 300g with a DSB and a mix of various SPS and some LPS and zoanthids. I also have about 20 fish, though most of them are 2" or less. My SPS did have good color but I figured I might try and improve on it. So, I tried adding some Elos AAs and got mainly negative results... no additional PE on the SPS, most of the zoos, especially the palythoas, closed up and would not open, and the ORP which is usually around 400-425 went down to around 250 and stayed there. So, after several water changes, I am back to the original husbandry of plenty (perhaps and excess) of flake and frozen foods, polyp extension is good on the few SPS I have, and the cnidarians look happy again. I am by no means an SPS expert and don't have very many SPS yet, mainly some torts and some other acros, but from what I have seen I get as good, if not better, results by adding a little extra fish food.

[GSMguy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10506803#post10506803 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MiddletonMark
Flint+Eric ... I'm just suggesting that those AA's likely will degrade to PO4 too. Just like fish food/etc.

In their tank i think they are skimmed out before they are able to degrade.

Whups sorry for bumping an old thread.

[Denadai]

I tried the Elos AA's and have to say I agree with Rich

My NO3 always was 0 ppm

Now, he is 10 ppm after one week dosing Elos AA´s........and before someone ask........no, I don´t overdose...

Regards

[Rickyrooz1]

I started using Warner Marine Amino Acid's three weeks ago and notice extension of my SPS polyps.

[fishfanatic06]

I agree with Fliger.
Rich, I will believe you when you post some pictures of your tank.

[glassbox-design]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11392952#post11392952 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Denadai
I tried the Elos AA's and have to say I agree with Rich

My NO3 always was 0 ppm

Now, he is 10 ppm after one week dosing Elos AA´s........and before someone ask........no, I don´t overdose...

Regards

denadai, amino acids are an organic source of nitrogen and will not register on a no3 test....unless they are overdosed to the tank to the point they are not utilized and break down. with that said you may have followed the directions, but it seems your tank's allowance for them is smaller than usual.

[Rickyrooz1]

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa85/YellowBellyTang/Chips03.jpg
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa85/YellowBellyTang/Northwoods01.jpg

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa85/YellowBellyTang/Roscoes02.jpg

[PUGroyale]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11393024#post11393024 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Rickyrooz1
I started using Warner Marine Amino Acid's three weeks ago and notice extension of my SPS polyps. ]

Not trying to pick at your argument but our tanks are in a constant state of flux. I notice different levels of PE from day to day without adding anything. BTW... what's the first coral you pictured? It's very nice :)

[Rickyrooz1]

ORA Chip's Acropora. Bought it from Live Aquaria.

[Denadai]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11394018#post11394018 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Flint&Eric
denadai, amino acids are an organic source of nitrogen and will not register on a no3 test....unless they are overdosed to the tank to the point they are not utilized and break down. with that said you may have followed the directions, but it seems your tank's allowance for them is smaller than usual.

I dosed a half that I read in the manual

I have a 160G tank , huge skimmer, lot of flow and light and etc

I just stopped Elos AA´s yesterday....after one week I will measure the NO3 again and let´s see the results

Regards

[glassbox-design]

with these supplements, the suggested dosing is just a guideline. no one can tell you your total nitrogen levels.

my guess is you are not nitrogen limited and your tank does not need them. that would explain the amino acids not being utilized and breaking down into no3. if you take ro/di water and add pure amino acids, the no3 levels should be zero.

[wcpeixoto]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11395295#post11395295 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Flint&Eric
with these supplements, the suggested dosing is just a guideline.

Totally agree. Each tank is so specific in import/export nutrients system and capacity that is up to the reefer figure out how much stuff should go in.

I use Ultramin-S everyday, about 1/3 of the recommended dosage. Most of my acros close polyps as soon as they sense it on water. When Ultramin-S finishes will try Elos Omega, I have a great respect for that company.

I really preffer do not overfeed and suplement if necessary with more specific products. Is that right ? I don´t know, but is working for me.

[Denadai]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11395295#post11395295 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Flint&Eric
with these supplements, the suggested dosing is just a guideline. no one can tell you your total nitrogen levels.

my guess is you are not nitrogen limited and your tank does not need them. that would explain the amino acids not being utilized and breaking down into no3. if you take ro/di water and add pure amino acids, the no3 levels should be zero.

I know that.....that´s why I started with half....maybe I have to dose less...maybe 1/3 or even 1/4

But 0 from 10 ppm of NO3 in just one week is really too much for me

Regards

[Rickyrooz1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10506699#post10506699 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Flint&Eric
i dont get raped, i make my own...a friend develops sport supplements and has access to pure aa's....to my benefit :)



my corals are receving their nutrition from the foods already being fed. i dont think anyone here is saying aa's will substitute feeding your fish well. i add aa's in addition, and unless i severely OD, which i have on many occassions i do not get algae like i do with a slight increase in feeding my fish. my bio-load is maxed and i have found my "fish food" max...aa's let me push that a little bit farther.

jme.

How do you know when your bio-load is maxed out? Does algae constantly grow on the glass or does your PO4 levels increase even while running GFO or do other levels become unbalanced?