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11countrybumkin
07/16/2007, 03:36 PM
I just set up my 30 gal aquarium tank last week. I have two anenomes, an older clarkli clownfish, a starfish and a six line wrasse. One of my anenomes keeps rollig up in a ball and looks dead (I think-I've never seen a dead one). Is it dieing or am I doing something wrong.? My water is perfect. I just had it tested and I am feeding marine flakes. Any help would be appreciated. Would it be a bad idea to get a baby clarkli or does that usually not work out?

Toddrtrex
07/16/2007, 04:10 PM
[welcome]

Just so I am clear -- you have only had this tank set up for 7 days and you have put all of that livestock into the tank?

I don't know how your water could be perfect -- your cycle has barely started.

And to answer your last question -- no do not get a baby clarkii, or any other fish for that matter. In fact I would suggest taking some stuff back.

11countrybumkin
07/16/2007, 04:19 PM
I got one anenome and the clarkli and six line wrasse the day after I set up my tank. The guy at the petstore said that was ok. I also got a liverock to help put bacteria in the tank. The new anenome is what I am worried about. Everything else looks good. I am not going to get anything else for a long time though. I really can't have too much more in such a small tank anyway. I don't think I can return anything to the petstore after it is purchased. Please help me with what I have now. I have read some stuff on the internet and asked a lot of questions at the pet store but apparently they are not a great sourse for info.

Toddrtrex
07/16/2007, 04:23 PM
I suggest not taking that store's advice any longer -- Putting them in a tank the day after is way way too soon.

What would be really helpful if you could tell us the exact water parameters -- numbers not "okay" / "fine" / "perfect"

What type of lights do you have over this tank?

If taking back the live stock isn't an option, I would suggest some water changes. What type of anemone is it?

What type of filtration are you using?

Anemone
07/16/2007, 04:37 PM
What Todd said. We need information to work with.

Kevin

11countrybumkin
07/16/2007, 04:45 PM
It is 1.025 salinity and 82 degrees. and they tested nitrate, salinity, ammonia, and that was all good because my tank is brand new. I can't tell what kind of light that I have it is a fish tank long light. I got it used and the writing is off. I can get a new light if you tell me what I need. I am also going to get some frozen krill to feed them tomorrow. I is a Florida condalactys. I am using a undergravel filter system. With a Shark Mako 115v. 60 hz. Does this help you at all?

MalawianDude
07/16/2007, 05:03 PM
Your tank is gonna cycle, levels will spike, prolly lose the anemone's and hopefully not the fish they tend to handle it a bit more.

The bulb does it look like this?
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=9680&N=2004+113350

or like this:
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=13314&N=2004+113346


Anemones really need:
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=13319&N=2004+113353

And not to mention a established reef of min of 6months. so everything is well and settled.

a undergravel system, ive seen it used in past with old school reefers, it works if maintained.

11countrybumkin
07/16/2007, 05:21 PM
It looks like the first one. I will get the kind that I need tomorrow. Is dr. fosters a resonable place to order from? How do you keep up the under ground filter system because my freshwater tank doesn't have that kind. I have a bio wheel filter system on that tank

awestruck
07/16/2007, 06:07 PM
Hi Country--I'm truly not trying to rain on your parade but is there anyone who could temporarily hold your animals until your tank cycles and settles? The chances of your anemones making it are very, very slim. Anemones need good water, strong lighting, and a stable tank. New aquariums simply cannot provide that type of environment. Also, what types of anemones are they?

MalawianDude
07/16/2007, 06:08 PM
They are, and pretty good at helping you out when something goes wrong. Ud want something from here:
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/NavResults.cfm?N=2004+113352

The one i showed u was just a bulb, u need a Metal halide system. Which will run couple hundred.

Also, I would but like guy said above, if could someone else hang onto them while redo your tank setup to improve it, would be great deal better. I would recommend removing that under gravel filter, and putting a HOB refugium.

awestruck
07/16/2007, 06:10 PM
Country, also, don't listen to what your store says (at least for now). Whoever told you it was ok to add livestock the day after you set up your tank is full of beans. Please, ask people on RC in the future for good information.

11countrybumkin
07/16/2007, 06:18 PM
Is there anyone near Houston Tex area with a salt water tank? I am North of Houston actually. Without that light you think they will die? They are Florida condalactys. Do do you the second light (with 2 bulbs)that you showed me would keep them alive? I wasn't planning on spending a couple of hundred right now. My light is for salt water and freshwater tanks. I know that. Is my light ok for the fish that I have? You guy have me really worried now. I don't want to loose my livestock.

awestruck
07/16/2007, 07:05 PM
There are 2 main issues (among many others). Regarding the lighting: the lighting is fine for your fish; it is not fine for your anemones. Additionally, lighting is not your only concern; the quality of the water is of utmost importance. New tanks cycle and until your tank is completely cycled, ammonia and nitrites will be present and they are really, really hard on animals.

Here is what I would do: don't get lights right now--use what you have.

Take the condy back to the store and see if they'll hold it for you or perhaps take it for store credit.

Get rid of the undergravel filter and buy what's called a HANG ON THE BACK refugium. Hang on the back means just that--->it will hang on the back of your aquarium.

Don't buy any more animals.

Buy some saltwater testing kits. You want to test for pH, ammonia, alkalinity, calcium, and nitrates (these are just the basics). And, do you have a hydrometer?

Do you have a thermometer?

Feed your fish, but feed them just itsy bitsy little bits of food. Remember, fish act hungry all the time!

Test your water--when you see ammonia registering (and I'm sure you will) do a 25% water change (make sure you mix the fresh batch of saltwater really well--let it sit for a while with an airstone or a powerhead in it so it can aerate).

Read--Read--Read--Read

Know that there are many people here on RC who will help you.

11countrybumkin
07/16/2007, 07:48 PM
That was A LOT of help. Thanks!!!! I will do just what you said.

Dawman
07/16/2007, 09:02 PM
I hope things go well for you and feel bad you were misled by your LFS . :fish2:

Slakker
07/16/2007, 09:03 PM
I'd try to return your fish to the LFS as well, and try to find a new store to shop at.

How much rock do you have? If you only have one piece, you should buy more live rock, enough so that you have 30 to 40 pounds of it in your tank.

55semireef
07/16/2007, 10:01 PM
A good rule of thumb is to wait at least (imo) 8 months before you introduce any anemone to a tank which should be at least 30 gallons depending on the species.

awestruck
07/16/2007, 10:16 PM
Slakker is definitely correct: take your fish back if the store will let you and when buying rock, people generally shoot for 1-1/2 pounds per gallon. Try to get good porous rock. Dang but rock is expensive but necessary for a saltwater tank. Further, 55semireef gives good advice when saying people should wait for many months before adding an anemone to a tank. You know country, I too love anemones, but they require some knowledge and really good conditions for them to thrive. Unfortuntely your store didn't tell you that. And, don't let those LFS people give you any guff. Tell 'em what you need and ask them to do it!!!

Now, try to remove the worry lines and repeat the reefing mantra with me (I know it by heart cuz I had to learn it when I first started) S-L-O-W-L-Y S-L-O-W-L-Y S-L-O-W-L-Y :)

Slakker
07/16/2007, 10:37 PM
Don't feel bad, you're not alone. I think a good percentage of people here are guilty of taking things a little too fast when they start up, especially after getting advice from the LFS.

When I first started, I had an established sand bed leftover from the previous owner of my tank, added 4 pounds of rock, let that settle for a week or so, and then went and got 8 more pounds of rock, two A. Ocellaris, and a peppermint shrimp. I added them all to my main tank on the same day. That bit of poor judgement resulted in a good 3 months of QT for my clowns, a full month of which was very stressful in a "Are they gonna be alive this morning?" kind of way.

So you're having a rough start...try to learn from it, and don't get too discouraged on the hobby. The big take-home message here is from now on, try to do most of your research on your own. This website, among many others on the internet, are great resources and have a lot of information to help you out.

Let us all know how everything works out for you...best of luck!!!

11countrybumkin
07/16/2007, 11:26 PM
I got a little excited!! I am going to take my anenome to the fish store tomorrow and ask if I can trade for some liverock and take the underwater filter out and put a on the back of the tank bio wheel. That is what my freshwater tanks have anyway. I'm going to get some frozen krill and get my water tested again. I'm going to keep the other things that I have and pray for the best. I know that the other pet store will not take them back. How long did your fish do good in your tank before you knew you were in trouble? My fish are all acting real good it is just the one anenome that is freaking out on me.

Slakker
07/17/2007, 12:09 AM
My fish were okay for about three days before things went downhill...and when it went, it went fast. They were fine, and i looked at the tank like 10 minutes later and one was laying on the sand breathing heavily, and the other was frantically swimming all over the tank bumping into things.

What are you using for substrate? I hope it's not the gravel like you find in freshwater systems. If it is, I'd advise removing that and replacing it with sand that is specifically for saltwater/reef tanks.

As for filtration, I'd avoid the bio-wheels. In saltwater tanks they can cause your nitrates to build up and make it harder for you to keep sensitive creatures like anemones and a lot of corals. I'd get something that has carbon cartridges, and remove whatever method of "biological" filtration that they include. That's what your live rock is for, after all.

I hope your fish make it through okay...to try to make it as easy on them as possible, see if you can't make sure that the live rock from the LFS that you're getting is "fully cured." This will (hopefully) mean that there will be less die-off from the organisms living in the rock and that they will be pretty well populated with the beneficial bacteria.

This is going to be a pretty critical time for your fish, so take care when you feed not to overfeed. They should do fine with one very small feeding per day. You may think you're not feeding them enough, but that's the least of your worries right now. If you overfeed it will create even higher ammonia/nitrite levels and be more dangerous for your livestock.

MalawianDude
07/17/2007, 04:51 AM
Yup dang cheesehead has it right :D

Wouldnt bother withthe biowheel filter, this is what was being brought up before, for filteration on ur tank:

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=3618&Ntt=refugium&Ntk=All&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Np=1&N=2004&Nty=1

awestruck
07/17/2007, 07:36 AM
Hi Country, awestruck here. I didn't think to tell you this yesterday so I would like to add it now: when you get some time in the next day or two (the sooner the better) go into the NEW TO THE HOBBY forum. Near the top of the threads you will see one called NEW-1st TIME ON RC-LOOK HERE FOR ANSWERS. While many of us have been trying to help you, we're probably, inadvertantly, confusing you more than when you began. The information in this thread is organized and easy to understand. As a previous teacher for 10 years, I might add that it would be beneficial to have a notebook handy so that you can write key points down. ;) As I said yesterday, the best thing you can do right now is get as many animals out of your tank as possible, and start reading. Tackle the reading - truly - devote some serious time to reading and learning. If you feel overwhelmed by all of the information, well, that's ok, there's A LOT for all of us to learn. But you know what, you can do it. And Country, remember the reefin' mantra ----> S-L-O-W-L-Y. Good luck and make RC you're very best friend in the world :D -- you will continue to meet nice people willing to help!

GSMguy
07/17/2007, 07:46 AM
Hang on back fuge is your best bet for filtration, low maintenance, simple, cheap. natural.

Poorcollegereef
07/17/2007, 08:47 AM
Should it also be worthy to mention high quality skimming? In addition, I would hope to point out that any store who whould promote selling for a day old tank would also be sleasly enough to sell uncured or "pre-cured" live rock which would only make the problems worse.

But don't feel too bad country, I lost

1 carpet anemone due to bleaching (I was fooled by a shady LFS)
1 Ritteri due to a shipping mistake (FEDEX lost the shipment for 2 days) Really bad smelling on arrival
1 Ritteri to poor acclamation (let the temp drop too much I think)
1 BTA to a "anemone proofed" powerhead
1 BTA to a trans-state move

Finally, I just decided to get a coral that clowns sometimes will host in and I was lucky enough that they did.

Oh, and my biggest noob mistake was adding supposily cured liverock to my freshly cycled tank. Good and honest stores can be hard to come by, and thats why I drive an hour to my favorite place.

11countrybumkin
07/17/2007, 12:46 PM
Ok let me tell you where I am at now. I took one of the anenomes back. He will give me a credit if it lives and he put it in a separate tank. I bought 4 1/2 more pounds of liverock and some frozen krill. I am going to cut way back on the feeding. The guy at the store said (This is a pretty good fish store) said that the underwater filter wouldn't work and my over the back filter wouldn't do either. I needed to get some kind of special cylinder filter for salt water tanks. I was thinking about leaving the underground filter and putting my other over the back Aqua Tech 20-40 gal 120 vac, .17amp, 60 hz on at the same time. That way one can filter and one can move the water around enough. This was my idea until I get some more money to spend on the aquarium.

GSMguy
07/17/2007, 12:53 PM
undergravel is a no no
so is the canister filter you need a good protein skimmer.

11countrybumkin
07/17/2007, 12:59 PM
I think that the place that I got the liverock from is a good fish store. So I hope the rock is ok. Just paid $24. for a 4lbs of it. I have coral gravel for salt water tanks. I didn't get the sand because it would go through my underground filter. I was told to get a Canister Filter Cascade 700 brand. They are on sale now for $94.00. Please let me know if you think my cheap over the back filter and powerhead will work o.k. together until I can get a better one?????

Dawman
07/17/2007, 01:44 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10358136#post10358136 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by GSMguy
undergravel is a no no
so is the canister filter you need a good protein skimmer.
Canister filters are a no no ? Maybe in YOUR opinion .

Canister filters a great if maintaned . I would keep your HOB filter for now and get the Cascade if you have the $ . They are pretty good for the price , I ran one for my 75 for years until going to a sump and refugium . You will want to get a good protein skimmer also . A refugium isn`t a need but benefits the aquarium in many ways . As when many start out $ is a big issue and you do not need to buy all the expensive better items at once . If you can afford it great , but go as your knowledge and budget allows you . There are many forums and each seems to have their own "you must have" items .

55semireef
07/17/2007, 02:06 PM
I agree with Dawman, canister filters can be good if maintained however I would much rather have a refugium and a sump on any reef tank in the long run.

Anemone
07/17/2007, 02:08 PM
Guys, the saltwater hobby is an art, as much as science. You can use an undergravel filter. You can use a canister filter. You can use a HOT filter. You can use bioballs in a wet dry. You can use live sand and live rock (and no mechanical filtration). You can use an algal filter, a mud system, a UV sterilizer and/or a huge protein skimmer.

What you need to make ANY of these work is knowledge. Knowledge of a tank's cycle, or biofiltration and basic tank chemistry. The things that are talked about every day in the New to the Hobby forum, and addressed in the stickies there.

So, read there first. Get an idea of what's going on, then come here and ask "anemone-tank-specific" questions.

Kevin

joker577
07/17/2007, 03:24 PM
What about using a Fluval with a HOB overflow? Or perhaps setting up a small sump with an overflow... IMO the store who told you putting all that livestock in 2 days after you setup your tank you should stay away from. Unless you're using a cycling additive to help with your denitrification bacteria such as BioSpira cycles last anywhere from 2 weeks to 1 month atleast..Keep checking your water as much as possible and doing water changes of about 20% weekly or 10% biweekly (even better) to keep your levels in check, and hope for the best.

55semireef
07/17/2007, 10:10 PM
well said joker577

Slakker
07/18/2007, 12:19 AM
I've seen no real data to support BioSpira's credibility in the marine aquarium...if anyone has any, I'd be interested to look at it.

E.J. Coral
07/18/2007, 12:52 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10358656#post10358656 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Anemone
Guys, the saltwater hobby is an art, as much as science. You can use an undergravel filter. You can use a canister filter. You can use a HOT filter. You can use bioballs in a wet dry. You can use live sand and live rock (and no mechanical filtration). You can use an algal filter, a mud system, a UV sterilizer and/or a huge protein skimmer.

What you need to make ANY of these work is knowledge. Knowledge of a tank's cycle, or biofiltration and basic tank chemistry. ...

Kevin

AMEN!!

Talonstorm
07/18/2007, 07:13 AM
This is a pretty good bet for a HOB type unit.

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4412&Ntt=bak%20pak&Ntk=All&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Np=1&N=2004&Nty=1

It is basically just a HOB protein skimmer. Pick up a few powerheads for water circulation too!

Tina

Dawman
07/18/2007, 07:48 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10362533#post10362533 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Slakker
I've seen no real data to support BioSpira's credibility in the marine aquarium...if anyone has any, I'd be interested to look at it.


No real Data ? Have you researched it at all ?

A friend uses it and I tried it and seems to work pretty good .

GSMguy
07/18/2007, 07:51 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10363314#post10363314 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Dawman
No real Data ? Have you researched it at all ?

A friend uses it and I tried it and seems to work pretty good .

he may be a SLAKKER, but he does research. :)

Poorcollegereef
07/18/2007, 08:05 AM
I would say a canister/ or even a HOB filter is fine right now. The canisters/HOBs run into problems when the tank is mature and established and then the nitrates increase... right now, any surface that will grow denitrifying bacteria is a good think so I would recommend the filters, but I would say a skimmer is more important (Sorry, I am one of those firm believers in skimming, amen!) I would not bother with a backpak in my experiences but I would recommend a Tunze Nano (haha, let the debate begin)

at a $135

I wouldn't rush out to get a canister,becase a HOB will do jus fine for 30G and the canister will be nolonger used in about 6-12 months.

Finally, with reguards to your local fish store, I would say that you might want to contact the local marine club/society to get a few directions about which stores are the better places to go in the area. (if you can tell, I dont trust your current place and it looks like he just wants to sell you stuff) Marine Aquarium & Reef Society of Houston might be a place to check first. Anyone else from the Houston area? Just an idea and my 2 cent =D...

But congrats on taking the anemone back, you did a good thing!

E.J. Coral
07/18/2007, 08:11 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10362533#post10362533 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Slakker
I've seen no real data to support BioSpira's credibility in the marine aquarium...if anyone has any, I'd be interested to look at it.

Have you tried it? I haven't, but I have had luck with that bioactive sand stuff...

joker577
07/18/2007, 09:13 AM
http://www.marineland.com/products/mllabs/ml_biospira.asp
Here's from the lab testing what BioSpira is all about. I used it/ my LFS used it and had fish in his display biocube the next day.

GSMguy
07/18/2007, 09:22 AM
i think the live sand is proven to help cycling. in my tanks its helped for sure.
ive used bio spira type products but only when i was new in the hobby

now i use vodka to boost bacteria.

joker577
07/18/2007, 09:25 AM
Biospira IS bacteria...it contains millions of denitrification bacteria that you'd have to wait so long in your tank for them to form

55semireef
07/18/2007, 09:57 AM
GSMguy, how much vodka do you use to boost the bacteria?

GSMguy
07/18/2007, 10:15 AM
i use a capfull every 2 or 3 days. i started using it for phosphate controll actually but its a double edged sword. it affects the tank similar to zeo in that its a carbon source.

Poorcollegereef
07/18/2007, 11:53 AM
The Biospira site is an add for their product, and their peer reviewed articles are dated at best (newest is 2001 and does not state the use of the mentioned product). Finally the site seemed to cite freshwater but not saltwater... while this might not be a factor, it is worthy to report. Biospira, or any additive will not cycle and mature an aquarium instantly, even fully cured live rock will not have enough bacteria to support a stocked aquarium instantly. It may speed the process up but there is no such thing as a quickfix.... except patience. =D

I havent done enough research into vodka, but there are enough decent hobbiest using it (without corperate affilations) that it is legit when used properly.

Finally, I had a nitirite spike after my first cycle when I first started off and the "add bacteria" stuff does not work at all in my opinion (excluding 'live' sand)

Dawman
07/18/2007, 12:18 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10364756#post10364756 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Poorcollegereef
The Biospira site is an add for their product, and their peer reviewed articles are dated at best (newest is 2001 and does not state the use of the mentioned product). Finally the site seemed to cite freshwater but not saltwater... while this might not be a factor, it is worthy to report. Biospira, or any additive will not cycle and mature an aquarium instantly, even fully cured live rock will not have enough bacteria to support a stocked aquarium instantly. It may speed the process up but there is no such thing as a quickfix.... except patience. =D

I havent done enough research into vodka, but there are enough decent hobbiest using it (without corperate affilations) that it is legit when used properly.

Finally, I had a nitirite spike after my first cycle when I first started off and the "add bacteria" stuff does not work at all in my opinion (excluding 'live' sand)


Sorry but you are wrong . Bio Spira works as I have seen for my self and a friend use it and I know a guy that has a business setting up and maintaining aquariums throught the state . He uses Bio Spira for every new tank he sets up , fresh and saltwater . Other bacteria additives don`t do this and just help speed up the cycle by a week or two .
Have you used Bio-Spira ? Just because you used some other product that compares to stress zyme or cycle , doesn`t mean Bio-Spira doesn`t work . Bio-Spira is in a totally different category than any of the other bacteria products .


Here is some of the actual research on Bio-Spira .
http://www.marineland.com/science/nspira.asp


Yet you exclude live sand , the sand has the bacteria just like Bio-Spira does .

joker577
07/18/2007, 12:30 PM
No one said it was a "quickfix" PoorCollegeReef. What takes so long in a cycle is waiting for your denitrification bacteria to lower your levels...welll when you have millions more with BIOSPIRA that help lower the levels the cycle is almost overnight. Not a quickfix, but a faster cycle.

Slakker
07/18/2007, 01:03 PM
I appreciate the link...some interesting information. I was disappointed that the only article that seems to even touch on the marine aquaria is from 1996, and I didn't see BioSpira mentioned at all. An interesting skim, anyways. A little tough to get into, and I'm not sure I fully understand a lot of it...lol

I'm not in a position to tell you that BioSpira doesn't work, can't work, or that it's a sham. I'm certainly no expert in microbiology.

This thread has gotten a little off topic...how are your fish holding up, Country?

Poorcollegereef
07/18/2007, 01:19 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10364900#post10364900 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Dawman
Sorry but you are wrong .


Here is some of the actual research on Bio-Spira .
http://www.marineland.com/science/nspira.asp


Yet you exclude live sand , the sand has the bacteria just like Bio-Spira does .

Wow, this is turning into a infomercial for marineland...

Ok, as I have stated that the "research" come from a bias source and is extremely dated. The two most recent articles from the site you posted (I read them before I postedm orginal opinion) and they are:


Paul C. Burrell, Carol M. Phalen, and Timothy A. Hovanec Ph.D.. Identification of Bacteria Responsible for Ammonia Oxidation in Freshwater Aquaria. APPLIED AND ENVIRONMENTAL MICROBIOLOGY, Dec. 2001, p. 5791-5800


Hovanec, T. A., L. T. Taylor, A. Blakis and E. F. DeLong. 1998. Nitrospira- Like Bacteria Associated with Nitrite Oxidation in Freshwater Aquaria. Applied and Environmental Microbiology Vol. 64, No. 1: 258-264.

Like earlier posts, people have claimed that they put fish in the very next day, so how is that now a "quickfix" when thi hobby considers a year to be a short-term milemarker.

I excluded livesand because I have no person experience with the product(s)... and I also want to state that live sand it NOT sand with added bacteria, but rather a different type of product... we should not confuse the definition, please.

Slakker is right, we should be listening for country's updates. We should offer more generistic advice such as to add skimming, and refugium to promote a good tank... not just act as paid marineland sponsors

(PS: I have used BioSpira and it is just above the Skilter as a worthless investment)

Dawman
07/18/2007, 01:51 PM
Maybe in your eyes , but not to the people that have used it and have experience with it . Anyway , that is your opinion and so on . But I have one final question for you and I`ll let country have his thread back . How is it that you are 20 years old and have 19 years of experiance in this hobby ? You actually had and maintained your own tank at 1 year old or is your experience calculated in dog years ? Always wanted to know after seeing your post . :fish2:

"not just act as paid marineland sponsors" Just because you supposedly used it and didn`t like it and I have the facts and proof it works doesn`t make me a so called Marineland Sponsor .

MTB
07/18/2007, 02:08 PM
Live rock and live sand do the same as those bio additives.

Anyway back to the original post.......

Something like this would be ideal...
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=16745&N=2004+22778

You could also build your own outta acrylic. You can fit a refugium and skimmer all in the same place. Plus it adds to your water volume aiding in stability. Can you list all equipment you have....in detail? i.e. lighting: Metal halide or normal output fluorescent or compact fluorescent ect. That would also help.

Poorcollegereef
07/18/2007, 02:20 PM
Ok, let back off the personal attacks, and avoid the "you're wrong arguments, ok? I never directly addessed anyone as a marineland spokesman, but if there is research to be posted, it should be of a 3 person party, with no incentive to slant for fiancial gain. Constantly posting a company's website leading to partial information and add is getting close to free marketing for a company.

I would like to see a controled environment study of the effects of adding biological additives. If there is no such evidence of a thrid party independent study, then there are no fact that prove any product can "instantly" or nearly instantly cure an aquarium.

It is important to any new hobbiest or those experience ones to not assume that the claims/research by a company wishing sell a product or fish store trying to sell inventory is true and unfalliable. Like any pursuit there needs to be a fair amount of reading of UNBIAS reseach and experience. I, for one, do not fall for bandwagon arguments nor defer to bias sources of "authority"

Dawman
07/18/2007, 02:38 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10365757#post10365757 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Poorcollegereef
Ok, let back off the personal attacks, and avoid the "you're wrong arguments, ok? I never directly addessed anyone as a marineland spokesman, but if there is research to be posted, it should be of a 3 person party, with no incentive to slant for fiancial gain. Constantly posting a company's website leading to partial information and add is getting close to free marketing for a company.

I would like to see a controled environment study of the effects of adding biological additives. If there is no such evidence of a thrid party independent study, then there are no fact that prove any product can "instantly" or nearly instantly cure an aquarium.

It is important to any new hobbiest or those experience ones to not assume that the claims/research by a company wishing sell a product or fish store trying to sell inventory is true and unfalliable. Like any pursuit there needs to be a fair amount of reading of UNBIAS reseach and experience. I, for one, do not fall for bandwagon arguments nor defer to bias sources of "authority"


Look at your posts , you DID call me a paid marineland sponsor . I did no person attack , just asking a question . Constantly posting a companies website ? I posted once and wasn`t partial info . Third party evidence ? I can name someone that uses it at least twice a week whe setting up new tanks for his customers . You are theone shouting out a bunch of B.S and then saying you didn`t say it . There is fact that it works from the company and the people that actually have used it . Open your eyes instead of your mouth , it`s amazing how much you can learn Whatever , your the 20 year old pro with 19 years of experience . Yet you still didn`t answer the question .

Anemone
07/18/2007, 02:55 PM
Okay, KNOCK IT OFF!

You're both out of line!

Kevin

Anemone
07/18/2007, 03:15 PM
Any further "off topic" posts will be removed, and if people can't stop arguing, they will find themselves arguing outside of RC.

Kevin

polwick
07/18/2007, 04:51 PM
Back to the topic...bumkin, another thing I'd recommend is to buy a basic book on saltwater aquariums. That might be more helpful as a general introduction than the forums.

To keep it simple, many reefkeepers follow what's known as the Berlin method: strong light (usually metal halide or t-5 lights--google them), live rock and sand, and protein skimming. The live rock acts as a biological filter, and the protein skimmer is the mechanical filter. You also want to make sure that your water flow is adequate--you can determine the water flow based on your pump's information. Reefkeeping can get infinitely more complicated than that (as seen here), but that would be a good place to start.

polwick
07/18/2007, 05:01 PM
Forgot to add, good luck! I'm sure you're wondering if all this is more effort than it's worth, but with patience comes results. The 80/20 rule is definitely in effect here--spend 80% of your time on planning and 20% on actually doing it. There's a steep learning curve at first, but we all came into the hobby not knowing anything.

55semireef
07/18/2007, 07:30 PM
11countrybumkin what kind of lighting did you say you had again?

55semireef
07/18/2007, 07:33 PM
Double post

OrionN
07/18/2007, 08:48 PM
I would go to Fishland on Westheimer and ask Andy, the owner, to help you set up a small reeftank. He will help you out. You can also copy what he did to set up some of various small tank in the store.
Here is their webpage:
http://www.fishlandhouston.com/