how much acclimation is enough? some info.

[Sk8r]

Why do we acclimate?
Mostly salinity. If your incoming specimen has been living at 1.020 salinity and you drop him into a tank with 1.025, you may be killing him. Why?

Because his cells/tissues are all adjusted to the 1.020, and the pressure inside his cells is adjusted to that. Give him something higher or lower and the cell membranes start exchanging water to balance that out, as fast as it can---but it is a biological process, and like all biology---it takes time. Think of having way too much water in your body and needing to get rid of it. Well, you know you can sweat it out or excrete it---and that's pretty well what your critter is trying to do, and you know how you'd be if you had somebody pressuring you to move that process along. Don't rush him. The pressure builds up and it's not pleasant.

Shrimp, crabs and snails can't sweat. If you had a shell, you couldn't sweat either. Give them extra patience.

How do you know how much acclimation? Get a refractometer: one of the most valuable instruments a saltwater hobbyist can have. Test your water; test the water your new specimen is in. The farther they are apart, the longer it will take to acclimate. If they're only .001 apart, the acclimation will go very fast, maybe 20 minutes. If they're .005 apart, plan on a lengthy acclimation, and if you've got a PH meter, test that, too, as the acclimation proceeds. [Once that bag is open, ph may go slightly off, and it can get worse: watch that parameter as you proceed, and measure the distance to go with the salinity balance vs. the things going on with ph in order to protect the health of your new specimen.

Does this apply to corals and anemones and mushrooms? If your tissue is at one salinity and the ocean is another, you need time to adjust.

And in the case of fish, they should go into quarantine, not straight into your tank: this experience is, for one thing, rough on them. If they're carrying anything, they may break out within a day or so. A week of observation can prove your fish is clean: two is even better, because you can be sure he's eating, and that he's overcome his nervousness about you. Call it the 'making friends' stage. Remember you're protecting your tank from having to undergo a fishless 8 weeks to cure what you could bring in; and you're protecting your other fish from catching what could come in.

In the case of corals, rather than quarantine, there are dips that can protect your tank against pests that may come in with them, and they're a good idea. Remember that hitchhikers ride in on what they eat. And while your rare fish won't breed in your tank---hitchhikers almost always will, because they've got their favorite food source right there, and what more could they want? You can be hipdeep in flatworms before you know it.

HTH.

[griss]

Sk8r, I am going to sticky this thread. Good information. Thanks.

[Sk8r]

Thank you, Griss.

[griss]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10371123#post10371123 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Sk8r
Thank you, Griss.
De nada my friend.

[fishyvet]

For those who have fish shipped to them, you should also be checking ammonia in addition to salinity and pH. Fish do all of their biological processes in the water; breathing off CO2 (lowers pH) and eliminating waste (increased ammonia). High ammonia in a lower pH environment is less detrimental to the fish because more of the ammonia exist in the ionized form (ammonium) which is not as toxic to the fish. If the ammonia is not neutralized prior to acclimation, the pH will begin to climb and the ammonia will shift back to the toxic unionized form.

[Sk8r]

Thank you, fishyvet! A very good point. To put that in really basic chemistry, Ammonia is a) toxic and b) affects ph. A ph spike is bad. And if a fish has been overnight in a bag, ammonia builds up. The more 'delicate' the fish, or the bigger the fish relative to the water volume [more waste] the worse problem. I'm not sure, but I'd about suspect carnivores may be particularly at risk from this process.

Just to reassure you: companies do pack with this in mind. Testing the incoming bag water with your available tests will make it so you're not dealing with 'mystery water' and you have a good picture of the two water zones you're trying to match up.

Just occurs to me, [a lightbulb moment here], it might be a good idea, if you've dealt with a shipper before and know what their salinity is, to have your quarantine tank start closer to that figure, so that when a fish is the most stressed, the path to abundant clean water is easier and faster. You can gradually bring up the salinity of the quarantine water by 'topping off' evaporation with salt water instead of fresh water [the normal topoff.]

[Rue]

Very good post! Thanks!

[Nanz]

Excellent Post.. Thanks Sk8tr!

Im very interesting in learning about these dips you place your corals in before adding them to the tank.

Being a Discus fan and keeper I do keep a QT tank and have always aclimated my fish but coral is something entirely new to me as is invertibrates.

[Sk8r]

Dips for corals: look up Lugols, Interceptor, and there is one my lfs prefers, and sells, that may be from Coralife or Kent---not sure which. Some sellers also take measures to be sure their corals are clean. It's a brief dip, done in a bucket. Go to the sps forum and have a look, notably, for these words: acropora coral is particularly vulnerable to little hitchhikers, and there's a lot of discussion on pests of various sorts.

[FleeVT]

Excellent information.

I would also like to hear more about the coral acclimation process. What do I do when I get home with my recently purchased soft coral? I've heard people recommending RODI rinse. What do you do with your leather, mushroom, monties, etc?

[Sk8r]

First make sure that they can adjust to the salinity. I'm not sure about the ro/di [freshwater] rinse---likely fatal to some hitchhikers and enough to startle them loose, perhaps, but not 'pleasant' to the specimen at all, even fatal, if the dip lasted too long or were applied to the wrong specimen. Montipora is actually an sps stony, though fragile as chalk---I'd just use the standard coral dip. If I were buying softies these days [my last tank was softie, but we didn't have the proliferation of pests we do now] I'd acclimate in a well lit glass tank where you can really get a good look, and scan it very thoroughly for small crawlers and other pests. I'd be interested in hearing from a expert practitioner of the freshwater dip as to what it gets, and what the procedure and duration is. I'd also like to know how they tolerate the same dip used for stony coral.

[Rackyrane]

Not an expert, but learned by trial and error that mushrooms don't like RODI dips--they melted on me when I tried it.
I RODI dip all of my new zoos--have managed to head off a couple of zoo spiders that way.

[FleeVT]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10382420#post10382420 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Rackyrane
Not an expert, but learned by trial and error that mushrooms don't like RODI dips--they melted on me when I tried it.
I RODI dip all of my new zoos--have managed to head off a couple of zoo spiders that way.

For the zoos, how long do you dip for?

[iwishtofish]

Thanks Sk8r, for posting this thread, and to those who have added information. I think this info will keep me (and hopefully others) from becoming complacent at acclimation time.

[blind1993]

yea salinity is not the only thing ammnia is high in the bag. ph is low in the bag since they were shipped. also do not have any lights on while do ing the process or u will add not needed stress to fishes expecialy if they have been in a bag for a while and had no light.

[joesynodontis]

so that is what is behind that acclimation I do. Most reefers do not quarantine, I do not , but now the paranoya has set in. I dont want to loose any fish.

[WaterKeeper]

I'll also add it to the First Timers references.

[blind1993]

i dont quarintine but i try to make sure i have the best fish.

[Sk8r]

Thanks, Waterkeeper!

[WaterKeeper]

You're up there in the limelight now. :D

[joesynodontis]

I got to admit It is nice to live in So cal I do not have to order fish on line, there are many fish stores around.

[thecoralreefer]

From being a transhipper, I have found that most fish are shipped in @ around 016 to .017 in salinity. They do this to help push off any parasites on or in the fish. It is a 2 day trip for them in most cases. My brokers then reox them in LA for the short trip to Florida. My quarantine tanks start them there. I have used the fwd method to cleans the fish and have seen first hand how the worms jump off the body of the fish.
I will take 2 to 3 days to acclimate before releasing them into population tanks. There art a variety of meds that do work but this is best used right from the shipping box. So if your LFS does this you will probably have good luck if not who knows.
In most cases the fish do not like and can not tolerate such a radical method as a fwd. I find it does more harm than good.
A hypo salinity holding tank allows you to remove most of the parasites without hurting the fish. Acclimation up from there happens due to evaporative raising in the salinity. Ph change does have some affect on the fish as well, although it seems to me that temp and salinity changes are the main causes for stress
This is why you float the bag and drip or small dose from your tank 2 or 3 times before introducing the fish to your tank.
Corals respond in basically the same manner but are more sensitive to a Ph change as well. In most cases an acclimation of 20 to 30 min should allow for the changes taking place.
Be sure to always check the bag water for a starting point.

[thecoralreefer]

In most cases a 2 to 3 min dip should ward off most parasites.
An Iodine dip like flugals is commonly used. Be sure you have less than 10% Iodine solution for this dip. To much iodine can kill too.
This works for corals and fish too. Don't forget that they are sitting in an unnatural solution so to much time can be devastating for them both.

[Sk8r]

Interesting info, coralreefer, a view from inside the industry.

[andy51632]

So how do you stop the ammonia rising and the ph lowering? Do you put a little bit of prime in the bag or a buffer while acclimating?

[blind1993]

buffering and ammonia well u just try to not have anything die or overfeed.

[Steve 926]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10417608#post10417608 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by thecoralreefer
In most cases a 2 to 3 min dip should ward off most parasites.
An Iodine dip like flugals is commonly used. Be sure you have less than 10% Iodine solution for this dip. To much iodine can kill too.
This works for corals and fish too. Don't forget that they are sitting in an unnatural solution so to much time can be devastating for them both.

Thanks for the info. Coralreefer.
When you dip with the Lugols, are you using FW or SW.
Are you using the Kent products Lugols solution, or the pharmaceutical strength Lugols. I have read about an RO/DI~Lugols dip for Zoanthoids.

When using a Hypo salinity QT for new additions (fish), how long do you QT them before placing them in your display

Thanks for a reply

Steve 926

:smokin:

[coast2coast7390]

im for the 15 min float with a couple cups of water from the display and hes good to go :thumbsup:

[kyreefer1]

Never to old to stop learning

[chromafi]

Fish : Put a drop of prime/fish in the bucket. Drip acclimate for 20min@2 drops/sec.
I have worked in several pet stores and I cannot believe some of the stuff on this thread. Dont put corals in RO water, & if you have to do something, use reef dip for 1 minute. I have seen thousands of corals transfered without acclimating and I have never seen any adverse effects.

[kikithesailorwo]

i didn't know that!! i hope i didn't do too much damage i put much less... thats what some gay told me when i bought it..:confused:

[Sk8r]

The main thing for safe acclimation is to match salinity. Measure incoming bag, and what you have in your qt.

Dip is another issue. Best to use a commercial product intended for fish or corals, be sure it's marine, and use it in salt water as per the directions on the package, meticulously followed, to the gram.

[khoivo1]

what if i am tranfer fish from smaller tank to biger tank in my house ,what should i do //.?? just match salinity and temp then tranfer them over?? do i have to acclimate for 30 min too/?? or just release them right away?? hope to get a good infor from Pro thanks

[Sk8r]

If salinity, temperature, ph, AND alkalinity all match you can pretty well take them straight over.

[puffer21]

be careful when you are doing a drip acclimation, anything longer than a half an hour, you should really add a heater and air pump, for most livestock.

[C4SxM5]

I've always used the dripped method with an air pump and not sure how to "QT" the fish.

Do you just put the new fish in the sump for a couple weeks? Please go into to detail for a NEWB:o

[Sk8r]

That IS another issue, qt---but basically it's a bare sandless, rockless tank with only a cheap filter, maybe a heater, where your new fishes 'adjust' to your water, and calm down and get to eat without competition. It's also 2 weeks where you can watch your new fish to make sure you aren't bringing in ich or brook or lord knows what. If they break out in spots, you can treat them and save their lives without endangering your main tank or have to break it down catching them. I earnestly, earnestly recommend using a qt tank for your very first fish purchase and every one after. I answer so many heartsick appeals from first-timers who've just found out their new fish has a parasite and now it's really sick---so, SO easy to treat if you've got the fish in qt, over it in a few weeks and safe and generally immune from then on.
Adequate sized tank, regular tank water, plain filter floss and pump, daily testing for salinity, ph, nitrate/ammonia, and after 2 weeks you can pretty well bet if your fish was sick it would have broken out by now. SOme prefer a longer 4 week qt, but most things show up fast with the stress of being moved and bagged.

[virginiadiver69]

Sk8r, I am getting my first fish via mail order tomorrow. The shipper recommends not opening the shipping bag right away do to pH swings. They do not go into any detail, can you enlighten me?

[WaterKeeper]

You need a chemist not a writer Virginia. :D

I really don't know why they would say that as the shipping bag has a enhanced carbon dioxide atmosphere in the void space. This is normal but it tends to knock down the pH during the journey. Opening the bag is not going to change things radically as the CO₂ will dissipate but not change the pH to substantially. Let the bag breath and it will slowly adjust both pH and gas balance at you acclimate.

[virginiadiver69]

Thanks WK

[racrumrine]

Here's my favorite article on the topic and how to set up a QT.

Quarantining Your Fish by Andrew Trevor-Jones

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-02/atj/feature/index.php

Best of luck,

Roy

[reefaholic101]

bump

[WaterKeeper]

That looks like a No Sales bump there to me reefaholic. :D

[ricsreef]

I QT for at "least" four weeks,no less,I try to QT for eight most of the time,depends on the species. I want to make sure I dont add something sick or any bad hitchhikers to my reef system.Been there,done that and dont want to be in that situation again.

[reevasreef]

wow. wonderful info. thanks for the detail. I had no idea!

[wooden_reefer]

My new fish stay in my QT for at least five weeks counting from the day of active treatment against ich, hypo or copper.

I don't believe in "observation". There is limit to observation. What is there to observe?

I treat actively to eradicate ich for at least five weeks, often longer. You do not see all the ich infestation. It is in the gills, in very small sizes that you can't see. That is why a QT must have a robustly cycled nitrification filter.

The fish also needs time to build immunity against various opportunistic pathogenic bacteria. I use UV.

To me, "accilmation" is not just water chemistry. It is behavorial. Accilmation is complete when the fish has started to eat well, boldly and in enough quantity and variety.

[jimicasper]

a month or two...

[WaterKeeper]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10699004#post10699004 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by wooden_reefer
I don't believe in "observation". There is limit to observation. What is there to observe?

To me, "accilmation" is not just water chemistry. It is behavorial. Accilmation is complete when the fish has started to eat well, boldly and in enough quantity and variety.

Observation is what you suggest yourself and in the correct manner. We observe the OT specimens behavior and compare it to other fish we keep in our display. If the fish behaves strangely then we suspect disease or other problems.

I, myself, do not routinely use prophylactic treatment on newly acquired specimens as sometimes those treatments themselves may have undesirable effects. Only if the fish shows signs of disease; labored breathing, wild dashing about the tank, stability problems when swimming or unusual sores or other visual visual signs do I commence using medications. That however is a personal choice and many people practice medicating all new arrivals.

[yokoyii]

May I know how to do the aclimation system? Can anyone tell me?

[whosinpower]

I am a newbie, just in the process of setting up a reeftank.
In fact, I am filtering RO water as I write this. My tank is 90 gallons with a sump bringing total volume around 100 - 110 gallons.

I have a sump, tank is drilled, plumbing is in place, as is the lights, heater, pumps etc.

This is a new tank. Water will go in first. Check for leaks. If that checks out - add salt and adjust salinity to appropriate level.

Then I add my sand and then do the liverock. Cycle the tank. That is my plan. I was thinking that the cycle would be 3-6 weeks give or take.

Can I set up a quarentine tank in the meantime - and have fish waiting until the tank completes its cycle - and then add them knowing that they have been quarentined and tank is ready for livestock???? Problem is that I do not have "mature" water for the quarentine tank - it would all be new. Does this matter?

Also - do you quarentine the clean up crew as well?

thanks

[whosinpower]

Disregard the previous message. I got the information from the article that was helpfully posted.

Thanks.

When all else fails - read!

[SFish]

I'm having a CUC shipped to me so as far as acclimating them I'm just adding small amounts of water from the tank to the water they come in till the SG and PH match right? About how much water from the tank should I be looking to add at a time? Also how often should I be adding water?

Thanks

[mwminer]

I have ordered an Achilles Tang and two yellow tangs online. My seller tells me he runs his tanks at 1.016 Salinity. If I were to set up my QT tank (55 gal) to 1.016 and then just let the salinity rise naturally to 1.025 (where my DT tank is at ) simply by not adding any top off water? Would that be a viable way to acclimate them to a higher salinity?

[DasCamel]

I have ordered an Achilles Tang and two yellow tangs online. My seller tells me he runs his tanks at 1.016 Salinity. If I were to set up my QT tank (55 gal) to 1.016 and then just let the salinity rise naturally to 1.025 (where my DT tank is at ) simply by not adding any top off water? Would that be a viable way to acclimate them to a higher salinity?

Yup, perfect actually.

[mwminer]

Thanks!