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View Full Version : Reef tank plan with mangrove "display refugiums" Comments?


LostAngeles32
07/27/2007, 02:51 PM
Hello again all!

(Moved from NEWB area)

So I am going to try and attach a couple pdf files showing an early draft and flow diagram for the tank I am planning.

This is my first saltwater tank so I can really use all the input, both good and bad, that I can get.

Tank Concept

Create a 120-gallon reef tank with dual flanking mangrove refugiums to fit on a 12' wall

The tank: 120 gallon 24"h x 48"w x 27"d glass tank with Dual corner overflows (at least that is the used one I have my eye on right now)

The refugiums: Essentially, these are clear aquatic red mangrove planters with deep-sand beds, Halimeda, copopods, and some assorted critters. These will probably have to be custom made acrylic. 12-14 gallon 8"h x 36"w x 12" deep, with dual baffles on each end. 3 Mangroves per tank. I will also have 30-gallon (or so) hang-on overflows on each as a precaution. Think long bonzai tree planters to go along with a distinctive minimalist asian theme in the planned room.

Surge tanks: I am looking at creating 2 surge tanks following this concept HERE (http://www.masla.com/reef/csm.html). If anyone has tried this please let me know good/bad input, especially related to the noise problems mentioned. I know there are many solutions, and this seems like a easy 1st step

The equipment: I have purchased an eBay setup of wet/dry, protein skimmer, and calcium reactor with a pH computer/controller which should be here soon. Plenty enough to handle the system. I will add other components as the need/opportunity arises.

Lighting: Will go for 2 HMI over the tank with T5 actinics for sunrise/sunset. Will probably also go daylight T5s under some sshelves to light the refugiums.



What I am looking for is thoughts in regards to the refugiums. Has anyone done something similar?

This is the very rough first stages, so many specifics, such as pump types, lighting brands, etc, are not none. I have a very tight budget, so some guerrilla aquatic skills will be necessary on my part.

I would like to thank everyone for their time and comments!

Thanks,

-Steve

LostAngeles32
07/27/2007, 02:51 PM
Here is my rough Flow Diagram:


I am sure I am missing some goodies . . .

Scuba_Steve
07/27/2007, 03:27 PM
I love the idea, but I am unsure about certain aspects. What are the surge tanks for? Looks like too many pumps to me, and something will go out of whack and flood. Here is what I would do. First of all, ditch the wet/dry. All you need is a sump. Wet/drys with bioballs or other types of media just provide a place for nitrates to accumulate. You will have plenty of filtration from your live rock and refugiums. Now, for plumbing layout, and Im gonna do my best at describing this without drawing a picture. Do everything in seperate loops. Tank overflow to sump, return pump in sump back to tank. Then each refugium would also drain into the sump, and have an independant return pump in the sump going back to the refugium. So your return section in the sump would have 3 return pumps in it. Lets say a mag 9.5 for the display, and 2 mag 3s for the refugiums

Scuba_Steve
07/27/2007, 03:36 PM
wait, are you going to attempt to make a surge wavemaker? If so, I would still follow the idea i just said, just incorperate that in as well. I just dont like the idea of having pumps in the refugiums. It would be nearly impossible to match flow rates correctly.

LostAngeles32
07/27/2007, 03:55 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10427632#post10427632 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Scuba_Steve
wait, are you going to attempt to make a surge wavemaker? If so, I would still follow the idea i just said, just incorperate that in as well. I just dont like the idea of having pumps in the refugiums. It would be nearly impossible to match flow rates correctly.

I see your point. If was assuming that the flow rate (if all distances and heights were Identical) would be uniform through the double refugiums, or could be dialed-in with ball valves, but I can see how that would be wishful thinking. The fuges do have individual overflows (in case of whoopses) that do return to the sump.

It seemed that the most efficient way, in terms of plumbing and flow, would to have a continuous loop through the whole system instead of, say 5 (Tank/Sump, Fuge1/Sump, Fuge2/Sump, Wave1/Tank, Wave 2/Tank) closed loops. I was using ball valves to be able to isolate individual systems. I can see how, while efficient, it presents the opportunity for mass failure as opposed to small failure.

Hmmmmm . . .

Scuba_Steve
07/27/2007, 04:18 PM
I see no problem with wave 1 and 2/tank/sump on one system, and just one pump for the refugiums/sump on another with ball valves to adjust the amount going to both.
What i would ensure....

Make sure each individual overflow on the refugiums can handle the entire pump flow plus some extra (if lets say you turned the ball valve off on the other)

In the diagram it looked as if the surge tanks also had an overflow going into the tank in case they started to overflow. This is a good idea. Without seeing exact diagrams on how you plan on getting these to work its hard telling anything on this. Make sure your tank has a huge drain though, because the surges are going to create huge drains at times. Also know this will be very noisy. Know, very few people use true surge devices. A tunze wavebox does about the same thing just safer.

LostAngeles32
07/27/2007, 04:50 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10427938#post10427938 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Scuba_Steve

Make sure each individual overflow on the refugiums can handle the entire pump flow plus some extra (if lets say you turned the ball valve off on the other)

Thanks again Scuba_Steve! Yes I am planning on having a 30 gallon overflow on a 12 gallon tank, maybe overkill, I dunno.

In the diagram it looked as if the surge tanks also had an overflow going into the tank in case they started to overflow. This is a good idea. Without seeing exact diagrams on how you plan on getting these to work its hard telling anything on this. Make sure your tank has a huge drain though, because the surges are going to create huge drains at times. Also know this will be very noisy. Know, very few people use true surge devices. A tunze wavebox does about the same thing just safer. [/QUOTE]

Yeah, I know that there are many, many options as far as wave generators, but this is a low-cost option that I want to try. If it sucks, then I will have only wasted a couple bucks in parts. I will keep an eye on the drainage when I get there.

Scuba_Steve
07/27/2007, 05:03 PM
Thanks again Scuba_Steve! Yes I am planning on having a 30 gallon overflow on a 12 gallon tank, maybe overkill, I dunno.


Dont exactly understand. You are planning on using internal overflows right (drilled tanks)? Overflows are generally measured in diameter, 1", 1.5". I dont know what you mean by 30g overflow. BTW a 1" overflow would be plenty on each as they can handle 600 gph, and you dont need anywhere near that going through a 12g fuge. But on the display...... depending on the amount of water your surging, I would say dual 1.5" overflows. I forgot to mention above also, the surges may reak havoc on the water level in the skimmer.

LostAngeles32
07/27/2007, 06:32 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10428254#post10428254 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Scuba_Steve

Dont exactly understand. You are planning on using internal overflows right (drilled tanks)? Overflows are generally measured in diameter, 1", 1.5". I dont know what you mean by 30g overflow. BTW a 1" overflow would be plenty on each as they can handle 600 gph, and you dont need anywhere near that going through a 12g fuge. But on the display...... depending on the amount of water your surging, I would say dual 1.5" overflows. I forgot to mention above also, the surges may reak havoc on the water level in the skimmer.

What I meant to say was that I was looking to have a possible external overflow rated for a 30 gallon tank (in terms of linear inches), however, I I have to get the fuges made custom, I will add it in the design.

LostAngeles32
07/28/2007, 09:28 AM
Anyone else have some thoughts???

mrkalel
07/28/2007, 12:19 PM
Check out my thread... 144 Gal w/ 75 Gal Show Fuge...
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1145174