Lab testing Subcription service!

[Labman48076]

was just looking though my new issue of Aquarium Fish Mag in there I saw a add for http://www.aquariumwatertesting.com/ sounds really cool you can get a weekly or monthly that's the one I am thinking about trying about $23 a month they run 15 lab test and send you a pdf report. all you have to do is pay and send them your water.. lol sounds really intresting trying to find out if I can try it just once but I think it would be worth it to once a month get a lab report. they test the fallowing seems pretty sweet to me oh there is a promo offer mentioned code is the code but I can't find where to put the code I call them tomorrow also conserned about the 3 day shipping time would this effect the results? ph, Ammonia

A panel is our series of 14 tests run on a single water sample submission.

- Ammonia
- Nitrite
- Nitrate
- Phosphate
- Silica
- Alkalinity
- Calcium
- Potassium
- Magnesium
- Strontium
- Molybdenum
- Iodine
- Copper
- Boron

[HowardW]

Interesting concept.....let us know if you get the promo code to work and what it is.

[billweld]

I use a company called Natureef. They test 26 parameters for $20.00 I am very satisfied with their reports. I believe the founder is a Phd. Chemist. Natureef.com or
Coral Reef Research Inc. 5098 NW 37th Ave. Unit A Taramac Fl 33309. They will fax and mail results promptly.

[billweld]

They will preform single tests - no contract.

[PatrickJ]

thats pretty cool

[Labman48076]

I did notice that they don't test Strontium and allot of things they test I have no way of adding small does if needed of course on the other hand I have no way to test allot of that either. so it be intresting if nothing else.. got a reply from the 1st mentioned service here it is i think looking at the two services the 1st is more usful for aquarium use

Hello Dave,

Thank you for your interest in our service and for sharing your research with your fellow reef club members.

In regards to the Promo Code, I was unable to resolve the issue immediately but I have been informed that the web guys will fix that as quickly as possible. The offer was for a free Aqua Medic gift (100ml Anti-Red, 100ml Plancto, 100ml Biovit, Aqua Breed 200, Tweezers, or Reef Construct). I can certainly be helpful should you be interested in subscribing before that feature is repaired, just let me know.

In regards to equipment in use for the aquarium water testing, here is what I gathered this morning.

Hach DR series Spectrophotometers and AutoTitrators
Denver Instrument 200 series meters
Jennco & Denver Instrument Ion Specific Probes

All equipment is tested against reference solutions on a weekly basis and re-calibrated as is necessary. In the case of parameters checked by the Spectrophotometers, the unit is additionally zeroed out before each test with a sample of your water.

We do not sell or share our client list, as I'm sure you both understand and appreciate. This is a relatively new service but I can tell you that we now serve a fair cross-section of hobyists whom have sited a variety of reasons for signing up. Some use our analysis to benchmark their own testing efforts, some use it to establish and verify maintenance and dosing routines, and some see it as an insurance policy.

The collection process is rather simple, just fill the bottles with your water, close it tightly and drop it in the mail...we get it in 2 days and test it immediately. You mentioned in your question the effect of die-off shifting the accuracy of the ammonia during transit. Let me share with you the answer to this quesiton as passed on to me by a staff marine biologist here at AWT:


As far as ammonia in the sample is concerned, it is true that any organisms in the sample bottles that are collected, should they die in transit, would contribute ammonia to the sample. However, there are a few things to consider here. First, the home ammonia test that you are likely currently using, if it is a high quality test kit, reads in increments of 0.1ppm. The equipment that we are using is 1000 times as accurate, but the acceptable range for ammonia is up to 0.05mg/L. What this means is that while your test kit may read zero, you could actually be anywhere from zero up to around 0.08. This is an example of the limitations of home test kits. Given that our equipment is considerably more sensitive, it will almost always find some ammonia in any sample, but unless the water sample you pulled came from the interstitial spaces in your substrate, or contained such an enormous amount of bacteria that your water is cloudy, the ammonia reading will still be within acceptable parameters, and the effect of die-off during shipping could be “waved-off” as negligible. The results that you get would still be 100 to 1000 times as accurate as a home test kit.

Please understand that were we looking at this service from an aquatic toxicology paradigm, there would be an extensive amount of sample preparation, including micron filtration, acid Ph fixation, and sample refrigeration. This kind of service would be extremely cost prohibitive for regular testing. This is not what we are providing. We are providing a level of water analysis that is considerably more accurate than what is available to hobbyists using home test kits, recognizing that the margin for error will still leave the testing results considerably more precise that what you get at home, while maintaining a price point that is within the range of the serious hobbyist.

I hope this helps Dave and please let me know if anything needs more clarification or if any other questions come up as you share this with your group.

Thanks again for your time considering and discussing our service!

Jeremy Redmond
Customer Service
AquariumWaterTesting.com

[bertoni]

I wouldn't expect the ammonia or pH readings to be particularly useful, since the values are likely to change. Nitrite and possibly nitrate would likely change as well, but probably not significantly in and established tank. Calcium and alkalinity might shift a bit, but that could be handled at the lab. I don't know enough to tell what other precipitation might be possible.

The service might be an interesting way to get some idea of how accurate test kits are, if they're careful with their equipment and it's of sufficient accuracy. That might be an interesting research project.

[PatrickJ]

really this is interesting. this could be a big thing. they probably make bank off it.

[HowardW]

Ok, I subscribed to their monthly service and received my kit.

I did this so I can see what they get on my calcium and if it agrees with my Seachem kit which Billybeau keeps telling me is off :p

I'm also interested to see what they get on my phosphate, potassium, and borate since I've been using Seachem salt for a long time which is high in borate.

[Labman48076]

in a few days after you get the results back trying to get a few people to go in on the 100 dollar kits with my local club to get more results.. to bad they aren't taking it too serious. one guy wants to check Md's burgers to see why they can stay fresh for a year. geesh

[HowardW]

Ok, I just got back my results! Here they are:




Ammonia (NH3-4)
Natural Seawater Value: 0.010 mg/l
Acceptable Range: 0.000 to 0.050 mg/l
Tested: 0.010 mg/l

Your ammonia levels are within the recommended values. We recommend staying with the current feeding and stocking levels. Be sure to maintain a good schedule of water changes and additives. Ammonia levels can rise after the addition of new animals, after a water change, or after the changing of food diet. Any ammonia level above 0.05 mg/l is a cause for concern, and the source should be found and corrected.




Nitrite (NO2)
Natural Seawater Value: 0.010 mg/l
Acceptable Range: 0.000 to 0.100 mg/l
Tested: 0.003 mg/l

Your nitrite values are within the acceptable range. We recommend continuing with your current maintenance and feeding schedules. Residual levels of nitrite are common in marine aquariums. Levels of 0.05 or less are of little concern. If the levels are higher than this, the source should be found and corrected.



Nitrate (NO3)
Natural Seawater Value: 0.050 mg/l
Acceptable Range: 0.000 to 25 mg/l
Tested: 0.910 mg/l

Your nitrate values are within acceptable parameters. Be sure to maintain correct stocking and feeding levels, as well as a regular water change schedule. Nitrate is not toxic in and of itself, but a rising level is indicative of deteriorating water conditions, and any level above 5.0 mg/l in reef aquariums is a reason for concern.




Phosphate (PO4)
Natural Seawater Value: 0.030 mg/l
Acceptable Range: 0.000 to 0.250 mg/l
Tested: 0.041 mg/l

Your phosphate levels are within acceptable parameters. We recommend continuing the current maintenance and water change schedule. The use of a phosphate absorbing resin is recommended to keep phosphate levels below 0.05 mg/l.



Silica (Sio2-3)
Natural Seawater Value: 0.040 mg/l
Acceptable Range: 0.000 to 0.500 mg/l
Tested: 3.747 mg/l

Your silicate level is too high. We recommend that you use a deionization resin for your make-up/top-off water. You may also use a commercially available phosphate absorber, as these will also remove some silicate. Silicate is required by many types of sponges for growth/reproduction, but will also encourage brown diatom algae growth. Any level above 0.3 mg/l may cause a diatom bloom in the aquarium.


Potassium (K)
Natural Seawater Value: 390 mg/l
Acceptable Range: 350 to 450 mg/l
Tested: 398 mg/l

Your potassium level is within the acceptable range. We recommend continuing with your current water change and chemical additive schedule. Potassium is an important constituent of seawater, being found in almost the same concentration as calcium. Potassium is important for neurological functions in fishes, as well as being a critical plant nutrient required by zooxanthellae and macro algae.


Calcium (Ca)
Natural Seawater Value: 400 mg/l
Acceptable Range: 350 to 450 mg/l
Tested: 464 mg/l

Your calcium levels are too high. We recommend that you suspend any calcium additions until the level stabilizes. If you have a calcium reactor, it may need to be adjusted. You may also need to adjust the alkalinity of the water. Maintaining the correct calcium levels is critical to the growth of corals and coralline algae. Fish also require calcium to maintain their health. High levels of calcium can cause dangerous fluctuations in other important elements, as well as in the alkalinity and pH of the water.




Boron (B)
Natural Seawater Value: 4.6 mg/l
Acceptable Range: 3.0 – 6.0 mg/l
Tested: 11.374 mg/l

Your boron (as borate) levels are too high. We recommend the suspension of any buffer containing borate salts until levels stabilize. You may also wish to perform a partial water change. Borate is an important part of the water buffering system, and it helps keep calcium levels stable. An overabundance of borate can cause dangerous fluctuations in alkalinity and pH, as well as causing inaccurate calcium test readings.



Molybdenum (Mo)
Natural Seawater Value: 0.100 mg/l
Acceptable Range: 0.080 to 0.120 mg/l
Tested: 0.311 mg/l

Your molybdenum level is too high. We recommend a partial water change to reduce this level. You should also suspend the use of any additives containing molybdenum. Molybdenum is important for the biological processes of bacteria, and may be of some benefit to corals as well. High levels of molybdenum are known to encourage blooms of slime algae or cyanobacteria.



Strontium (Sr)
Natural Seawater Value: 8.1 mg/l
Acceptable Range: 5.0 to 12.0 mg/l
Tested: 5.490 mg/l

Your strontium levels are within the acceptable range of values. We recommend continuing with your current additive schedules. Strontium is important to coral growth, as they incorporate strontium ions into their skeletal mass, particularly SPS corals. It is also important to coralline algae growth.




Magnesium (Mg)
Natural Seawater Value: 1280 mg/l
Acceptable Range: 1100 to 1400 mg/l
Tested: 1277 mg/l

Your values are within the acceptable range. We recommend staying with your current water change and additive schedule. Magnesium is a very important part of the water buffering system, and is incorporated into coral skeletons. It is also critical to any photosynthetic processes.



Iodine (I¯)
Natural Seawater Value: 0.060 mg/l
Acceptable Range: 0.030 to 0.090 mg/l
Tested: 0.106 mg/l

Your Iodine levels are too high. We recommend a reduction in chemical additives containing Iodine. You may also wish to reduce the feeding of any shellfish-type, or red-algae based foods, and increase protein skimming. Iodide is known to be required by many soft corals, marine macro algae, and is a component of many of the colorful pigments in stony corals. Iodine is a strong oxidizer however, and an overabundance can damage coral tissues, and has been implicated in algal blooms.



Copper (Cu++)
Natural Seawater Value: 0.030 mg/l
Acceptable Range: 0.000 to 0.030 mg/l
Tested: 0.036 mg/l

Your copper levels are too high. We recommend the use of activated carbon to reduce this level. You should also use only RO/DI water for make-up/top-off water, as most copper that gets into tanks comes from copper water pipes in the home. It is also an ingredient in many fish medications. Copper is an important trace mineral for metabolic processes in many marine organisms. However, levels above 0.05 are toxic to almost all invertebrates and some fish species.





Alkalinity (dkh)
Natural Seawater Value: 2.5 meq/l
Acceptable Range: 2.5 to 5.0 meq/l
Tested: 2.657 meq/l

Your alkalinity is within acceptable values. We recommend continuing with your current water change and buffering schedule. Maintaining an appropriate alkalinity is crucial to maintaining a healthy aquarium. A fluctuating alkalinity will lead to serious problems in maintaining an appropriate pH, as well as problems keeping calcium and magnesium levels within required parameters.

Thank you for using AquariumWaterTesting.com

[HowardW]

Can you guess which salt I use by looking at my Borate results? :lol:


And I'm not sure why my silicates are so high, I only use 0 TDS RO/DI water. Maybe I need one of those high silicate removing DI cartridges? I also think I need to ease off on the bi-weekly Iodide dosing :lol:

[Boomer]

Ah SeaChem.............:D

Howard ask them this, what test are they using this for Hach DR series Spectrophotometer. And do they know seawater is not the same thing as FW when testing many parameters with spectro's. If they are using this meter and it is not set to a seawater std and no one makes a seawater stds, some of those test will be off and some will not. For example, NO3, NO2- will be in error but Si, Cu and PO4 will be fine. I have talked to the HACH senior chemist in charge of spectro's about this.

Tell them we need to est for Bromide and can they do that :D

Calcium (Ca)
Natural Seawater Value: 400 mg/l

The std is 412

Copper (Cu++)
Natural Seawater Value: 0.030 mg/l

Where did they get this from ? It is .00015 mg/ l . They are way off and by two decimal points. Std seawater is given as 2.4 nmol / kg and that is 2.4 nmol x 63.55 MW= .000152 mg / l

Molybdenum (Mo)
Natural Seawater Value: 0.100 mg/l

It is .01 not .100


Silica (Sio2-3)
Natural Seawater Value: 0.040 mg/l
Acceptable Range: 0.000 to 0.500 mg/l
Tested: 3.747 mg/l

It is ~ 2.8 ppm they are way off.

[HowardW]

<<< And do they know seawater is not the same thing as FW when testing many parameters with spectro's. If they are using this meter and it is not set to a seawater std and no one makes a seawater stds, some of those test will be off and some will not. >>>


Well Boomer I sure as hell hope they would know that :confused:

So perhaps my silicates are not that high after all, and I think my molybdenum must be high from dosing iron which also contains Mo. I'm not sure though how my phosphate read so low at 0.041 as I dose DT's pretty heavy and other foods nearly every day for all my fan worms and other filter feeders.

Now that I just switched over to ME Crystal Sea Bioassay perhaps my borate levels will drop over time also?

[HowardW]

Boomer, Is elevated Mo anything to be concerned about?

[Boomer]

It is but just leave it. Plants use a lot of it.

[boxfishpooalot]

well that was cool and interesting. How much did it cost?

[HowardW]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10667324#post10667324 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by boxfishpooalot
well that was cool and interesting. How much did it cost?



It was around $22.00 and that included them sending me out the little plastic bottles inside a prepaid priority mail box.

[Boomer]

Now that is cheap and worth it :D It anything store sample of your water in a closed glass clean bottle at room temp and then you can ref your test kits against the results.

[Labman48076]

this is what I wanted to do what you said I honestly thought about signing up for the subcription service but I am just not ready to commit to that I want to get the 99 dollar kits and split the cost with a few reefers and then on the day I am submitting the test test my take the same day I think I have 9 of those test I can do and I use Sera kits I also have acces to Salifert I know one guy locally that really wants to do it I need two more we could all test or tanks as well as have the labs test it.

[Boomer]

OK :D

[kidchill]

Interesting post. Please post the levels as I'm interested in seeing the precision and accuracy of home test kits. Are they using spectrometry for their values?

[Labman48076]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10673539#post10673539 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kidchill
Interesting post. Please post the levels as I'm interested in seeing the precision and accuracy of home test kits. Are they using spectrometry for their values?

In regards to equipment in use for the aquarium water testing, here is what I gathered this morning.

Hach DR series Spectrophotometers and AutoTitrators
Denver Instrument 200 series meters
Jennco & Denver Instrument Ion Specific Probes

All equipment is tested against reference solutions on a weekly basis and re-calibrated as is necessary. In the case of parameters checked by the Spectrophotometers, the unit is additionally zeroed out before each test with a sample of your water.

[Billybeau1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10614713#post10614713 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by HowardW
Ok, I did this so I can see what they get on my calcium and if it agrees with my Seachem kit which Billybeau keeps telling me is off :p


I rest my case. :D

[Boomer]

What is this People's Court ? Staring Judge Billybeau..................:D

[HowardW]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10685227#post10685227 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Billybeau1
I rest my case. :D



Your honor, may I please refer the jury to this specific thread started by the apparently confused individual above who is resting his non-existent case. :lol: ;) :p


Seachem Reef Salt Numbers: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1143847&perpage=25&pagenumber=1

[Labman48076]

the plot thickens lol this getting interesting lol Judge not least ye be judged.:lol:

[Billybeau1]

:hammer:

[Boomer]

It looks like the Judge thinks you guys are out of order :D Or maybe it is lunch time and he is just cracking a peanuts for the peanut gallery/jury............:lol:

[nyvp]

Coral reef is local to me. I sent them an email and will go by next week.

[Billybeau1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10686123#post10686123 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by HowardW
Your honor, may I please refer the jury to this specific thread started by the apparently confused individual above who is resting his non-existent case. :lol: ;) :p


Seachem Reef Salt Numbers: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1143847&perpage=25&pagenumber=1

I am, of course, referring to the fact that for months I've been trying to tell you your Seachem calcium kit was reading about 70 ppm low. BUT NO........you wouldnt believe me.

So you go out and order a special test from a company who specializes in testing with supposedly top shelf testing equipment (recalibrated every week IIRC ) and what results did you get ?

Your calcium is a heck of a lot higher than you thought it was, WHICH, I've been trying to tell you for months. :D

So what do you think of your Seachem test kit now ? ;)

[Boomer]

Case closed :hammer: and there will be no appeal :)

[stevenw56]

I'm really glad I ran across this thread. Being color blind it's always been very hard for me to test. I'm going to give aquariumwatertesting.com a try with the monthly plan.

[HowardW]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10690800#post10690800 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Billybeau1
I am, of course, referring to the fact that for months I've been trying to tell you your Seachem calcium kit was reading about 70 ppm low. BUT NO........you wouldnt believe me.

So you go out and order a special test from a company who specializes in testing with supposedly top shelf testing equipment (recalibrated every week IIRC ) and what results did you get ?

Your calcium is a heck of a lot higher than you thought it was, WHICH, I've been trying to tell you for months. :D

So what do you think of your Seachem test kit now ? ;)



Ummm, pardon me....however I think you are still somewhat confused perhaps. If you refer back to your Seachem Salt test thread, you were the one who got a calcium reading up at 570 PPM and I replied that seemed way too high and said my reading came in at 470 PPM......and sure enough the lab service said my calcium tested at 464 PPM. :lol:

And let's not even get into your magnesium readings at over 1700 PPM.......:D


Billybeau, would you care to change your plea to 'temporary insanity' ? :p

......and now you've somehow brainwashed poor Boomer into siding with you :confused:

[Boomer]

I'm not brain washed or siding with anyone at all. I'm just creating trouble and posting 'fun" posts with you two guys :D I never read any of your debates on the issue at hand :)

[Billybeau1]

Looking back, I did read your results wrong on the Ca++. I've been working a lot of hours lately and get a little fuzzy sometimes. :D

However, I did report in that thread that my mag kit was off. I got a new one and it is working just fine.

I'm wondering what the REAL specific gravity was of the water you sent to this company. Did they test that ?

I have an idea for you and me, Howard, but it'll have to wait a few days as I am working 16 hrs today. (It is Labor Day you know.) :lol:

Gotta love that double time and a half. :D

[HowardW]

<<< I'm wondering what the REAL specific gravity was of the water you sent to this company. Did they test that ? >>>



I don't believe they tested for SG, however the SG of the sample was what I keep all my tanks at, it was 1.0265 or extremely close......so that cannot be a factor in the calcium readings.

I suppose now you're going to ask how I calibrate my refractometer? :lol: :p

[Mac Inger]

Yes,..how do you calibrate your refractometer ???

[Boomer]

Are you ready :D

Refractometers and Salinity Measurement
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-12/rhf/index.php

[Mac Inger]

Oh i know that one Boomer :)

I read it in one sitting till 2 am one night,..i could barely keep my eyes open.

Was just hoping for a sweet and short answer from Howard,...but no, you have to come and crush my hopes

:)


Addendum : After reading that article a while back, i decided to calibrate with RO water and just add 1.7 to the reading. Well the weird thing is, I use NSW water, and with my RO calibration, NSW checks at 35 ppt. Which is bizarre i think

[Billybeau1]

Mac, NSW is different around the world. It is not always a constant 1.0265

Some refract's can be calibrated with ro, but not many.

When in doubt, the Pinpoint 53mS calibration fluid is the best way to insure accuracy IMO.

Howard, no, I'm not going to ask you how you calibrate your refract. I think we've been though that already. :D I don't recall you getting any Pinpoint solution to test your refract. Have you yet ?

[HowardW]

<<< I don't recall you getting any Pinpoint solution to test your refract. Have you yet ? >>>



Yes, I even have 4 extra sealed bottles in case you run out, LOLOL. :D

[cayars]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10691645#post10691645 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Boomer
Case closed :hammer: and there will be no appeal :)

Ouch, tough crowd :)

Carlo

[RobbyG]

Very interesting service. I would definitely try this out at some point. My only problem with this test is that my past experience is that 4 days is a long time to get back results, so this is not going to eliminate my need to have test kits. The second thing is that I would prefer if they dropped the Ammonia. Nitrite, Nitrate and Phosphate tests and replace them with some more of the exotic tests that can't easily be done by the home aquarist.

[Boomer]

Billy

When in doubt, the Pinpoint 53mS calibration fluid is the best way to insure accuracy IMO

You gave that easy out to early for Mac. I wanted him to sweat it out some more. :D

[loudell]

I think this is a really interesting service. From a marketing point of view IMO the people that will use the service are probably the upper 5% of the hobby. Very techie; excellent diagnosticians, etc. who would probably get similiar test results on their own. Is there any guaranteed accuracy to the results?

[Mac Inger]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10700647#post10700647 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Boomer
Billy

When in doubt, the Pinpoint 53mS calibration fluid is the best way to insure accuracy IMO

You gave that easy out to early for Mac. I wanted him to sweat it out some more. :D


Now thats just silly : ) Of course i knew i could buy the calibration fluid.

I thought maybe i was on the verge of discovering some bit of hidden gem/knowledge

like : stare at the sun, turn around yourself real fast 5 times while holding the finger at your nose and stick the probe in your ear for accurate salinity check

[cayars]

You forgot the most important part. You have to turn COUNTER-CLOCKWISE for it to work properly. :)

[ejocam]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10697540#post10697540 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Billybeau1
When in doubt, the Pinpoint 53mS calibration fluid is the best way to insure accuracy IMO.


Where would one purchase this fluid? Thanks

[Billybeau1]

The Filter guys carry it as do others. :)

[HowardW]

<<< I have an idea for you and me, Howard, but it'll have to wait a few days as I am working 16 hrs today. (It is Labor Day you know.) >>>



Well.....

[Billybeau1]

Do you have any Seachem Reef Salt left ?

[HowardW]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10721342#post10721342 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Billybeau1
Do you have any Seachem Reef Salt left ?


Yes, one sealed bag, and about 1/2 left from an open one.

[Billybeau1]

Howard, this is what I suggest we do if you are in the experimenting mood.

We will both take exactly one gallon of ro/di (this shouldn't be too difficult to measure)

Then we will take a baking measuring cup (like they use for measuring flour and things) only we'll use the 1/2 cup. Fill it with Seachem reef salt and scrape it level with the back edge of a knife.

Mix it in the gallon of water, stir and mix until dissolved completely. Lets say one hour.

Then we will test calcium (you using your Seachem and API kits) and I'll use my Salifert, API and Seachem kit

We should also test salinity with our refracts. I'll be testing at about 75 degrees although this shouldn't be too much of a problem as our refracts are temperature compensating.

Then we'll post our numbers and see where we are at.

You game ? :D

[HowardW]

Ok.......I will do that this weekend sometime and post my results.

[Billybeau1]

OK I'll do it tomorrow morning. :)

[Billybeau1]

Well Howard, I wasn't too tired when I got home from work so I did mine just now. Here are my results.

Exactly 1 gallon of ro/do mixed with a level half cup of Seachems Reef Salt. Mixed occasionally for one hour and at room temp.

Specific Gravity ended up at 1.0245

Salifert Calcium Kit - 490 ppm
API Calcium Kit - 490 ppm (actually between 480 and 500)
Seachem Calcium Kit - 425 ppm

As usual the Seachem is testing about 65 to 70 ppm lower than the others.

Since I had the gallon made up, I tested alk and mag as well.

Alk - 10 dkh
Mag - 1260 ppm

Remember, this is all at 1.0245

The test gallon is now in my tank. I'll await your numbers. :D

[HowardW]

<<< Exactly 1 gallon of ro/do mixed with a level half cup of Seachems Reef Salt. Mixed occasionally for one hour and at room temp.

Specific Gravity ended up at 1.0245 >>>


Hmmmm......we appear to disagree right off the bat. I mixed up exactly 1g RO/DI with exactly 1/2 cup Reef Salt and get a salinity of 29.5 PPT on both my refracto and 2 different swing arms. This was 1 hr. after of heavy circulation and aeration.

What salinity does Seachem say 1g and a 1/2 cup should mix up to??

[Boomer]

7 things

1. The moisture in the bags may be different. The one with the most will give a lower salinity.

2. Are you guys using dry cups or wet cups, they are not the same.

3. What is a level cup ? You poured it level, heaped it and then plowed it off, how was it plowed off or packed it down till level, etc.. ?

4. The salt was not well mixed and all in solution.

5. Someones Salinity device/s are off 2-3 ppt and you don't know it.

6. Salinity devices are only accurate to +/- 1 ppt.

7. You guys don't know what you are doing and are just guessing. :D

What salinity does SeaChem say 1g and a 1/2 cup should mix up to??

1.0245 = 32.5 if it was done correctly

[HowardW]

<<< What salinity does SeaChem say 1g and a 1/2 cup should mix up to??

1.0245 = 32.5 if it was done correctly >>>


This is from Seachems website:

" NOTE: To prepare small quantities, use 34 g of Reef Salt™ per each liter (1/2 cup per each US gallon) of water.

2. Stir well to ensure a good mix. Although the Reef Salt™ solution may be used immediately, we suggest aerating the water until it achieves oxygen/carbon dioxide equilibrium.
3. Measure specific gravity. For reef aquarium 1.020 – 1.025 at 24 C (75 F) is recommended

NOTE: 675 g of Reef Salt™ is formulated to create 20 liters (1.4 lbs per 5 US gallons) of saltwater at a specific gravity of 1.021. "

--------------


To address Boomers points...

My salt actually WAS a bit moist.

I did not pack the salt down at all, but rather used a heaping 1/2 cup and leveled it off with a plastic knife.

I noticed no undisolved sediment in the container after 1 hr, but it's definately possible it didn't all go into solution within that time.

Perhaps the 1g graduation mark in the old tupperware container I used was not actually 1g.

I may not know what I'm doing as Boomer says :lol:

[Billybeau1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10744881#post10744881 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Boomer
7 things

1. The moisture in the bags may be different. The one with the most will give a lower salinity.

2. Are you guys using dry cups or wet cups, they are not the same.

3. What is a level cup ? You poured it level, heaped it and then plowed it off, how was it plowed off or packed it down till level, etc.. ?

4. The salt was not well mixed and all in solution.

5. Someones Salinity device/s are off 2-3 ppt and you don't know it.

6. Salinity devices are only accurate to +/- 1 ppt.

7. You guys don't know what you are doing and are just guessing. :D

What salinity does SeaChem say 1g and a 1/2 cup should mix up to??

1.0245 = 32.5 if it was done correctly

Boomer,

1. I'll agree with the moisture thing. Mine was completely dry and Howards was a little wet, hence his lower salinity. However, that should not skew the calcium results.

2. Dry cups. Both of us did the same thing. Filled up a 1/2 cup dry measure and scraped flat with the back edge of a knife.

3. See # 2

4. My salt was all in solution. I'm pretty surer Howards was too.

5. That is a possibility, or is it moisture like you stated in Item 1 ? We both calibrate our refracrs with Pinpoint 53 ms fluid.

6. OK , he was at 29.5 ppt and I was at 32.5 ppt. Thats more than 1

:confused:

7. I'll make believe I didn't hear you say that. :mad:

Howard, How about the calcium numbers ?

[HowardW]

<<< Howard, How about the calcium numbers ? >>>


I didin't test for calcium yet. I'm going to pour out that sample and try again tomorrow using a pyrex glass measuring cup to make 1g of water and pack that old moist salt down a bit in the measuring cup......then I'll recheck the salinity again and go from there.

[Billybeau1]

OK Howard. But I didn't pack mine, although since it was very dry, I don't think I could have gotten much more in there.

I just filled the cup, tapped it a few times on the counter and scraped off the excess with the back edge of a knife.

I'm sure for our experiment this will be fine. :)

[Ralph ATL]

I just got my results back:

Ammonia (NH3-4)
Natural Seawater Value: 0.010 mg/l
Acceptable Range: 0.000 to 0.050 mg/l
Tested: 0.003 mg/l
Your ammonia levels are within the recommended values. We recommend
staying with the current feeding and stocking levels. Be sure to maintain a
good schedule of water changes and additives. Ammonia levels can rise after
the addition of new animals, after a water change, or after the changing of
food diet. Any ammonia level above 0.05 mg/l is a cause for concern, and the
source should be found and corrected.
Nitrite (NO2)
Natural Seawater Value: 0.010 mg/l
Acceptable Range: 0.000 to 0.100 mg/l
Tested: 0.006 mg/l
Your nitrite values are within the acceptable range. We recommend
continuing with your current maintenance and feeding schedules. Residual
levels of nitrite are common in marine aquariums. Levels of 0.05 or less are
of little concern. If the levels are higher than this, the source should be found
and corrected.
Nitrate (NO3)
Natural Seawater Value: 0.050 mg/l
Acceptable Range: 0.000 to 25 mg/l
Tested: 0.822 mg/l
Your nitrate values are within acceptable parameters. Be sure to maintain
correct stocking and feeding levels, as well as a regular water change
schedule. Nitrate is not toxic in and of itself, but a rising level is indicative of
deteriorating water conditions, and any level above 5.0mg/L in reef
aquariums is a reason for concern.
Phosphate (PO4)
Natural Seawater Value: 0.030 mg/l
Acceptable Range: 0.000 to 0.250 mg/l
Tested: 0.061 mg/l
Your phosphate levels are within acceptable parameters. We recommend
continuing the current maintenance and water change schedule. The use of a
phosphate absorbing resin is recommended to keep phosphate levels below
0.05 mg/l.
Silica (Sio2-3)
Natural Seawater Value: 0.040 mg/l
Acceptable Range: 0.000 to 0.500 mg/l
Tested: 1.901 mg/l
Your silicate level is too high. We recommend that you use a deionization
resin for your make-up/top-off water. You may also use a commercially
available phosphate absorber, as these will also remove some silicate. Silicate
is required by many types of sponges for growth/reproduction, but will also
encourage brown diatom algae growth. Any level above 0.3 mg/l may cause a
diatom bloom in the aquarium.
Potassium (K)
Natural Seawater Value: 390 mg/l
Acceptable Range: 350 to 450 mg/l
Tested: 422 mg/l
Your potassium level is within the acceptable range. We recommend
continuing with your current water change and chemical additive schedule.
Potassium is an important constituent of seawater, being found in almost the
same concentration as calcium. Potassium is important for neurological
functions in fishes, as well as being a critical plant nutrient required by
zooxanthellae and macro algae.
Calcium (Ca)
Natural Seawater Value: 400 mg/l
Acceptable Range: 350 to 450 mg/l
Tested: 428 mg/l
Your calcium levels are within acceptable parameters. We recommend that
you continue with your current schedule of calcium additions. Calcium is
critical to healthy coral skeletal growth, and many other biological processes.
Maintenance of calcium levels that are at or near seawater values is an
important factor in having a healthy reef aquarium.
Boron (B)
Natural Seawater Value: 4.6 mg/l
Acceptable Range: 3.0 – 6.0 mg/l
Tested: 1.590 mg/l
Your boron, (as borate) levels are too low. We recommend performing a
water change, and possibly the addition of a commercial buffer containing
borate salts. Boron is an important part of the water buffering capacity, and a
lack of boron can lead to dangerous fluctuations in pH and alkalinity.
Molybdenum (Mo)
Natural Seawater Value: 0.100 mg/l
Acceptable Range: 0.080 to 0.120 mg/l
Tested: 0.202 mg/l
Your molybdenum level is too high. We recommend a partial water change to
reduce this level. You should also suspend the use of any additives containing
molybdenum. Molybdenum is important for the biological processes of
bacteria, and may be of some benefit to corals as well. High levels of
molybdenum are known to encourage blooms of slime algae or cyanobacteria.
Strontium (Sr)
Natural Seawater Value: 8.1 mg/l
Acceptable Range: 5.0 to 12.0 mg/l
Tested: 9.02 mg/l
Your strontium levels are at within acceptable values. We recommend
continuing with your current additive schedules. Strontium is important to
coral growth, as they incorporate strontium ions into their skeletal mass,
particularly SPS corals. It is also important to coralline algae growth.
Magnesium (Mg)
Natural Seawater Value: 1280 mg/l
Acceptable Range: 1100 to 1400 mg/l
Tested: 1267 mg/l
Your values are within the acceptable range. We recommend staying with
your current water change and additive schedule. Magnesium is a very
important part of the water buffering system, and is incorporated into coral
skeletons. It is also critical to any photosynthetic processes.
Iodine (I¯)
Natural Seawater Value: 0.060 mg/l
Acceptable Range: 0.030 to 0.090 mg/l
Tested: 0.059 mg/l
Your iodine levels are within acceptable parameters. We would recommend
continuing with the current water change and additive schedule. Please be
advised that many Iodine supplements are difficult to dose accurately, and
“above normal” readings are easy to achieve with common iodine additives.
Copper (Cu++)
Natural Seawater Value: 0.030 mg/l
Acceptable Range: 0.000 to 0.030 mg/l
Tested: 0.027 mg/l
Your copper levels are within the acceptable range. We recommend
continuing with your current water change schedule, being careful to use only
RO/DI water for make-up/top-off water. Use of activated carbon can also help
keep this level in check. Copper is fatal to marine invertebrates at levels as
low as 0.05 mg/l for many species.
Alkalinity (dkh)
Natural Seawater Value: 2.5 meq/l
Acceptable Range: 2.5 to 5.0 meq/l
Tested: 4.366 meq/l
Your alkalinity is within acceptable values. We recommend continuing with
your current water change and buffering schedule. Maintaining an appropriate
alkalinity is crucial to maintaining a healthy aquarium. A fluctuating alkalinity
will lead to serious problems in maintaining an appropriate pH, as well as
problems keeping calcium and magnesium levels within required parameters.
Thank you for using
AquariumWaterTesting.com

[loudell]

It would be interesting to take say 3-4 samples of the same tank water and send them in at staggered time intervals in the future for analysis to see if the values come back exactly the same...

[Boomer]

Howard

20 liters (1.4 lbs per 5 US gallons) of saltwater at a specific gravity of 1.021. "

Math was it is 32.55 with no moisture

635.029 L - 18.927 grams = 616.1 /18.927 = 32.55 ppt


and they are saying 1.021 which is 27.8 @ 75 F, so 27.8/32.55 = 14.6 % moisture, which is not unheard of in salt mixes but is on the high end. If we go by that then, 35 grams of salt will make 29.89 ppt and equating their 34 g / 1/2 cup is 28.9 ppt = 1.0218 vs 1.021 so they are close.

Billy

I just filled the cup, **tapped it a few times** on the counter

That will change its bulk density giving you a higher Sg vs Howard's. Pour till cup is slightly over filled and plow of with the back side of a knife.

You guys have to go by the exact same procedures and be using the same exact salt. VOL is not good always, to many variables. You guys should go by weight in grams. 35 grams for 1 L= x Sg/S and you most remember that that salt has vol. So, you should fill a 1 L container up to 3/4 L, add salt and stir until dissolved. Then add the rest of the water to the 1 L mark and stir/aerate some more at Rt for 1 hr and measure the Sg/S.

If you do this and the refracts are cal with 53mS and the salinity is different, then more than likely it is a moisture issue. Also, the bag of salt should be tumbled to make sure all the salt in the bag is well mixed, due to settling from practice density and particle size settling.

[Boomer]

I'll say it again they are way off on their Silica. I do not know how they get those numbers. It is given as 100µmol / kg and 28.09 x 100 = 2800 µgrams = 2.8 mg /l avg . Most books give it as ~ 2 ppm.


Silica (Sio2-3)
Natural Seawater Value: 0.040 mg/l
Acceptable Range: 0.000 to 0.500 mg/l
Tested: 1.901 mg/l

That .040 is only when the Si has been driven down by diatoms where they are limited. The range in the world oceans is .2 - 170 µMol /kg and each x 28.09 = 5.16 - 4775 µgrams / 1,000 = .005- 4.75 mg / l with an avg of 2.8 mg/ l. Most of the Pacific is over 100µMol/ Kg and most of the Atlantic is < 50 µMol /kg.

and they are also off on this

Molybdenum (Mo)
Natural Seawater Value: 0.100 mg/l
Acceptable Range: 0.080 to 0.120 mg/l

It is 0.0100, not 0.100

Periodic Table of Elements in the Ocean
http://www.mbari.org/chemsensor/pteo.htm

[stevenw56]

Here's mine. Don't know why my silica is so high. I have a new RO/DI unit.

Ammonia (NH3-4)
Natural Seawater Value: 0.010 mg/l
Acceptable Range: 0.000 to 0.050 mg/l
Tested: 0.026 mg/l
Your ammonia levels are within the recommended values. We recommend
staying with the current feeding and stocking levels. Be sure to maintain a
good schedule of water changes and additives. Ammonia levels can rise after
the addition of new animals, after a water change, or after the changing of
food diet. Any ammonia level above 0.05 mg/l is a cause for concern, and the
source should be found and corrected.

Nitrite (NO2)
Natural Seawater Value: 0.010 mg/l
Acceptable Range: 0.000 to 0.100 mg/l
Tested: 0.004 mg/l
Your nitrite values are within the acceptable range. We recommend
continuing with your current maintenance and feeding schedules. Residual
levels of nitrite are common in marine aquariums. Levels of 0.05 or less are
of little concern. If the levels are higher than this, the source should be found
and corrected.

Nitrate (NO3)
Natural Seawater Value: 0.050 mg/l
Acceptable Range: 0.000 to 25 mg/l
Tested: 1.983 mg/l
Your nitrate values are within acceptable parameters. Be sure to maintain
correct stocking and feeding levels, as well as a regular water change
schedule. Nitrate is not toxic in and of itself, but a rising level is indicative of
deteriorating water conditions, and any level above 5.0 mg/L in reef
aquariums is a reason for concern.

Phosphate (PO4)
Natural Seawater Value: 0.030 mg/l
Acceptable Range: 0.000 to 0.250 mg/l
Tested: 0.022 mg/l
Your phosphate levels are within acceptable parameters. We recommend
continuing the current maintenance and water change schedule. The use of a
phosphate absorbing resin is recommended to keep phosphate levels below
0.05 mg/l.

Silica (Sio2-3)
Natural Seawater Value: 0.040 mg/l
Acceptable Range: 0.000 to 0.500 mg/l
Tested: 6.401 mg/l
Your silicate level is too high. We recommend that you use a deionization
resin for your make-up/top-off water. You may also use a commercially
available phosphate absorber, as these will also remove some silicate. Silicate
is required by many types of sponges for growth/reproduction, but will also
encourage brown diatom algae growth. Any level above 0.3 mg/l may cause a
diatom bloom in the aquarium.

Potassium (K)
Natural Seawater Value: 390 mg/l
Acceptable Range: 350 to 450 mg/l
Tested: 290 mg/l
Your potassium levels are too low. We recommend performing a partial water
change, and possibly adding a commercial additive containing potassium.
Potassium is rapidly depleted from aquarium water by several plant and
animal metabolic processes. Maintenance of appropriate levels is critical for
cellular respiration, as well as being an important nutrient for coral
zooxanthellae and macro algae.

Calcium (Ca)
Natural Seawater Value: 400 mg/l
Acceptable Range: 350 to 450 mg/l
Tested: 347 mg/l
Your calcium levels are too low. We recommend using a commercial calcium
additive to raise this level. There are several methods for doing this. Calcium
is a critical parameter for coral growth in reef aquariums, and chronically low
levels will cause coral mortality and loss of coralline algae and other
invertebrate species.

Boron (B)
Natural Seawater Value: 4.6 mg/l
Acceptable Range: 3.0 – 6.0 mg/l
Tested: 4.0 mg/l
Your boron levels are within given parameters. We recommend maintaining
your current buffering and water change schedule. Boron is a significant
portion of your aquarium Ph and water buffering capacity, and is crucial to
maintaining appropriate calcium levels, as well as being essential to several
biological processes, including macro algae growth.

Molybdenum (Mo)
Natural Seawater Value: 0.100 mg/l
Acceptable Range: 0.080 to 0.120 mg/l
Tested: 0.300 mg/l
Your molybdenum level is too high. We recommend a partial water change to
reduce this level. You should also suspend the use of any additives containing
molybdenum. Molybdenum is important for the biological processes of
bacteria, and may be of some benefit to corals as well. High levels of
molybdenum are known to encourage blooms of slime algae or cyanobacteria.

Strontium (Sr)
Natural Seawater Value: 8.1 mg/l
Acceptable Range: 5.0 to 12.0 mg/l
Tested: 7.860 mg/l
Your strontium levels are at within acceptable values. We recommend
continuing with your current additive schedules. Strontium is important to
coral growth, as they incorporate strontium ions into their skeletal mass,
particularly SPS corals. It is also important to coralline algae growth.

Magnesium (Mg)
Natural Seawater Value: 1280 mg/l
Acceptable Range: 1100 to 1400 mg/l
Tested: 1100 mg/l
Your values are within the acceptable range. We recommend staying with
your current water change and additive schedule. Magnesium is a very
important part of the water buffering system, and is incorporated into coral
skeletons. It is also critical to any photosynthetic processes.

Iodine (I¯)
Natural Seawater Value: 0.060 mg/l
Acceptable Range: 0.030 to 0.090 mg/l
Tested: 0.056 mg/l
Your iodine levels are within acceptable parameters. We would recommend
continuing with the current water change and additive schedule. Please be
advised that many Iodine supplements are difficult to dose accurately, and
“above normal” readings are easy to achieve with common iodine additives.

Copper (Cu++)
Natural Seawater Value: 0.030 mg/l
Acceptable Range: 0.000 to 0.030 mg/l
Tested: 0.031 mg/l
Your copper levels are too high. We recommend the use of activated carbon
to reduce this level. You should also use only RO/DI water for make-up/topoff
water, as most copper that gets into tanks comes from copper water pipes
in the home. It is also an ingredient in many fish medications. Copper is an
important trace mineral for metabolic processes in many marine organisms.
However, levels above 0.05 are toxic to almost all invertebrates and some
fish species.

Alkalinity (dkh)
Natural Seawater Value: 2.5 meq/l
Acceptable Range: 2.5 to 5.0 meq/l
Tested: 3.959 meq/l
Your alkalinity is within acceptable values. We recommend continuing with
your current water change and buffering schedule. Maintaining an appropriate
alkalinity is crucial to maintaining a healthy aquarium. A fluctuating alkalinity
will lead to serious problems in maintaining an appropriate pH, as well as
problems keeping calcium and magnesium levels within required parameters.

[cayars]

I'd be curious to know what reference solutions they are using for some of these salt water tests. I'd also like to know how they are verifying the reference solutions if home made are accurate.

I wouldn't have even questioned it but some of the values they are giving as Boomer has said is so far off it begs the question.

Carlo

[Ralph ATL]

If your are curious, I would suggest that you call or email them and just ask. It certainly wouldn't hurt!

What the results did for me was give me "piece of mind". I was struggling with my test results because of Salifert Alk. I had 3 kits that gave results from 9.9 to 12.9! I had API & IO give different results. HABIB sent me a test kit with reference solution, but since that was ..............................You get the point. I do know that of the test results that I test for, they were pretty close to my results.

[Antman]

I am going to give it a try

[Antman]

Quick question fot thoes who are using this service, how lond did it take to get your kits ?
I send the paypal payment friday and did not get any email responce Just the automated Paypal recipt

[sabbath]

Has anyone tried this service? It looks appealing to me in that it test for more more things for less money. http://www.natureef.com/

[Ralph ATL]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10773114#post10773114 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Antman
Quick question fot thoes who are using this service, how lond did it take to get your kits ?
I send the paypal payment friday and did not get any email responce Just the automated Paypal recipt

not for sure, but I think it was 5-7 days. The turnaround time to get result is awesome! IMO!

[Ralph ATL]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10773305#post10773305 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sabbath
Has anyone tried this service? It looks appealing to me in that it test for more more things for less money. http://www.natureef.com/

I might be wrong, but it looks like that site hasn't been updated in a year! and no, I didn't try this.

[Antman]

cant wait to see how my water tests out
I am alwany second guessing when I test

[Boomer]

billweld

I use a company called Natureef.

I pasted right buy this and did not see it.


I believe the founder is a Ph.D.. Chemist. Natureef/
Coral Reef Research Inc.


This guy use to be a friend of mine back in the 90's. His name is Adolf F. Klostermann. He is not a Ph.D chemist but electrical engineer turned self-taught chemist on his own. He is a very bright guy. I was amaze to see he is sill around and I have not see his company in any of the magazine in years and though the old coot left the hobby. Nice to see he is still around;) I may have to call him to say hello.

Although I agree that either of these companies are really providing a nice service , especially Adolf, we need to ask ourselves the question are the tests accurate. And there is only on way to do this and that is to have such tests verified by ENC Labs, which nobody is about to send their sample to a $45 / single parameter test or ~ $500 - $1,000 for a 14 parameter test, where the offer it for ~$30. ENC is where I sent Elos to, to get their test kits verified to be accurate.

http://www.enclabs.com/

Here is something many may not have seen that Lee did awhile back on Ca++ test kits, which samples verified buy ENC. The results speak for themselves. # 14 on the Excel by Lee are the results done by ENC. On Jon's bar it is AAS. This was done 2 yeas ago.


Lee's for test Excel spread sheet
http://reefcentral.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=5639100

Jon then put it into a easier to read bar graph

http://reefcentral.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=5639607

[Antman]

Hey doesn anyone know of a service like this that will test your RO water ? Would be nice to know what the water was like going into the tank

[Billybeau1]

That is simple Antman. You can yourself.

It's called a TDS meter. They are resonably priced and will measure the Total Dissolved Solids of your water.

A properly functioning ro/di unit should produce 0 ppm tds.

It doesn't get any better than this.

I use a dual inline meter but there are portable ones also available. It's all a matter of preference. :)

[rleasure]

I got my results back from aquariumwatertesting.com ealier this week. Everything matched what I was getting from my test kits, which gave me some peace of mind. My Silica was way high as well, but I attributed that to using tap water (I use RO now.)

I bought the reference pack. I figure I'll send the water out to be test once a quarter just to back-up my test kits.

[Antman]

Got my results back and looks like I got some work to do
AMM 0.008
NITRITE 0.007
NITRATE 17 would love to get this down
PHO 1.39 got to work on lowering this also
SIL 4.70 also high -I do use RO water humm
POT 376
CAL 369
BORON 3.0
MOLB .30
STRONT 12.5
MAG 1455
IOD 0.040
COPP 0.004
ALK 3.23

So I need to get my nitrates phospates down
I also use reefsolutions now I will stop for a month and see what happens

[HowardW]

<<< My Silica was way high as well, but I attributed that to using tap water (I use RO now.) >>>


Hmmm....it seems that nearly everyones silica is quite high according to that service. I was surprised at my silica levels because I use 0 TDS water for making saltwater and topoff and it runs through an 8 stage RO/DI setup including 4 seperate DI stages. I'm not really sure where my silica is coming from assuming their test readings are accurate.

[Billybeau1]

I am going to have my water tested by this company as well as a comparison to my own testing.

But I use a silicamax cartridge for my di. I wonder if this makes a difference. I'll be anxious to see what my silica level is.

Hey Rat. Any thoughts ?

Jim ?

Is it worth the extra dough to get a silica removing di cartridge ?

[HowardW]

Billybeau, I've been busy but I will redo the 1g and 1/2 cup test soon. I will pack the moist salt down a bit and see what I get on SG.

[Billybeau1]

I've been busy as well. :thumbsup:

[cayars]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10813961#post10813961 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Billybeau1
I am going to have my water tested by this company as well as a comparison to my own testing.

But I use a silicamax cartridge for my di. I wonder if this makes a difference. I'll be anxious to see what my silica level is.

Hey Rat. Any thoughts ?

Jim ?

Is it worth the extra dough to get a silica removing di cartridge ?

Did you ever send a sample in to be tested?

Carlo

[Billybeau1]

Not yet, probably next week. Been real busy. :)

[cayars]

Curious, how many people here would be interested in chipping in on a set of test on just salt mixes?

I've got IO, Red Sea, Oceanic, Crystal Sea and probably a couple of others sitting here I could mix up with 0 TDS (10 stage RO/DI - 3 stage DI) RO/DI water to a mix of 53mS via the Pinpoint meter and age it a day or two and then send them in for testing.

It could be very interesting to see how just the salt mixes themselves do. I know I'd like to see what the results come back as.

Who's interested? Any other salt besides the ones' mentioned above?

Carlo

[Antman]

I would love to see them results also , I would chip in on this expermint
May not be a bad idea to email them and see how we could do this .
Tropic Marin may be another choice

[cayars]

Yep definately would want to put TM down on the list. Probably both normal and Pro versions. I also neglected to add RC on the list earlier.

Ideally if a bunch of people would chip in $10 each we could get results from a bunch of different mixes.

I'd prefer to send them out all at one time so they all get tested at roughly the same time so there is no differences due to weekly calibrations and such.

If there's enough interest I'll give them a call and see if I can get a discount which I'd imagine they would do since all vials could be sent to me at one time and I'd be sending everything back at one time. At least the shipping should be cheaper along with the service I'd think. I'll check if there's enough interest.

Carlo

[Boomer]

Carlo

When or if you do this ask them if they can test for Bromide, so we can solve this kinda open debate that has been going about actual Bromide levels in seasalt. I still would like to see an second test on this to see how it compares to the Bromide levels in the Inland salt study. So we can lock this in one way or another. I would be glad to chip in if you get this set up . Something to really look at here is to get 2 tests from the same bag, where the dry salt mix is well mixed in dry form, to make sure this company is getting the same data results fronm the same bag. On may say that one may somewhere down the line ask the question is this lab testing company creditable. It for sure is not ENC Lab, as certified seawater lab, where **single*** test like Ca++ is $45


Another test, I know they can not do, is an XRD. Salt manufactures get nervous when I bring this up, as such an assay is from the dry salt mix tells you want is in the mix exactly. In other works, how much of x, y or z and even exactly to the grade of x, y or z. Basically it would generate a data sheet of all the components in a mix, what is in those components and how much. XRD is how mineralogist and petrologist determine what makes up a minerals or rocks, exactly. More than likely we would need to look to a major university geology department, where not a fee is charged but a contribution would suffice for such a test. Years ago I was going to do this. Maybe were Chris is at they have an XRD in the Geo Dept. Years ago our Geo dept was going to do it for $150 for 5 salts, but know my guy is long retired.

This is what an XRD is, short of X-Ray Diffractor. In Geo we use the Powdered XRD

From Wikkipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-ray_diffraction

Powder diffraction is a technique use to characterize the crystallographic structure, crystallite size (grain size), and preferred orientation in polycrystalline or powdered solid samples. Powder diffraction is commonly used to identify unknown substances, by comparing diffraction data against a database maintained by the International Centre for Diffraction Data. It may also be used to characterize heterogeneous solid mixtures to determine relative abundance of crystalline compounds and, when coupled with lattice refinement techniques, such as Rietveld refinement, can provide structural information on unknown materials. Powder diffraction is also a common method for determining strains in crystalline materials.

[HowardW]

Don't forget to add Seachem Reef Salt because Billybeau is still under the delusion that their calcium tests out over 500ppm ;) :lol:


I'd also like to see Marine Enterprises Crystal Sea Bioassay Lab Salt on the list. I'll pitch in...

[Boomer]

If we really want to be fare despite how we/I may fell.


1. IO

2. RC

3. Oceanic

4. Red Sea

6. TM

7. SeaChem

8. MECSB

9. Marine Environments

10. Kent

11. Coral Life



We can could call it the "Dirty Almost A Dozen Salt Assay" :lol: Yeah, I know it is to many so we may have to vote on it :)

[cayars]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10848273#post10848273 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Boomer
[B]Carlo

When or if you do this ask them if they can test for Bromide, so we can solve this kinda open debate that has been going about actual Bromide levels in seasalt. I still would like to see an second test on this to see how it compares to the Bromide levels in the Inland salt study. So we can lock this in one way or another. I would be glad to chip in if you get this set up . Something to really look at here is to get 2 tests from the same bag, where the dry salt mix is well mixed in dry form, to make sure this company is getting the same data results from the same bag. On may say that one may somewhere down the line ask the question is this lab testing company creditable. It for sure is not ENC Lab, as certified seawater lab, where **single*** test like Ca++ is $45


I'll check to see if they can do Bromide Boomer but I doubt it. :) Would be interesting to see how many salt companies are using DOW calcium wouldn't it?

The double test from the same batch is surely something that should be done but I guess depends on funds/contributions.

I'm anal about mixing dry salt well before using it.. I've got a mixer I use as soon as I open the bag/bucket and completely mix everything before I ever use it. Then I typically weigh and move it to smaller sealed bags ready for use later. I'll do all the mixing in glass tanks completely clean before use. I can mix up about 8-10 at the same time this way. Also worth mentioning is the RO/DI will go straight to a covered glass tank/container so there is no phosphate issues from "leaching". I'll just have to make sure the mixer is completely cleaned between each new salt.

If enough people are interested maybe would arrange to get a university to do the XRD tests as you mentioned. Worth considering and definitely a great idea! Could even be around the same price/contribution but I'd doubt it.

Carlo

[cayars]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10849045#post10849045 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Boomer
If we really want to be fare despite how we/I may fell.


1. IO
2. RC
3. Oceanic
4. Red Sea
6. TM
7. SeaChem
8. MECSB
9. Marine Environments
10. Kent
11. Coral Life

We can could call it the "Dirty Almost A Dozen Salt Assay" :lol: Yeah, I know it is to many so we may have to vote on it :)

What happened to #5? If I were I cop and pulled you over you'd fail the sobriety test. lol

Or how about:
1. IO
2. RC
3. Oceanic
4. Red Sea
5. Tropic Marin Sea Salt
6. Tropic Marin PRO-REEF
7. SeaChem
8. Marine Enterprises Crystal Sea Marinemix
9. Marine Enterprises Crystal Sea Bioassay Laboratory Formula
10. Kent
11. Marine Environments
12. Coral Life

Now we got a dirty dozen. :)

[Boomer]

I'll check to see if they can do Bromide Boomer but I doubt it

I think that also, so I'm wishing someone will tell me yes :D

There we go thanks for fixing that :D

[Boomer]

Real excuse bad cold, to much coffee and very little sleep :)

[cayars]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10848320#post10848320 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by HowardW
Don't forget to add Seachem Reef Salt because Billybeau is still under the delusion that their calcium tests out over 500ppm ;) :lol:

I'd also like to see Marine Enterprises Crystal Sea Bioassay Lab Salt on the list. I'll pitch in...

Nah, only Oceanic tests that high. :)

Got both salts on the list.

Carlo

[oct2274]

make sure to include the new red sea coral pro!

[cayars]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10849863#post10849863 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by oct2274
make sure to include the new red sea coral pro!

I had that one as just Red Sea before:

From here and PMs

1. Instant Ocean
2. Reaf Crystals
3. Marine Enterprises Crystal Sea Marinemix
4. Marine Enterprises Crystal Sea Bioassay Laboratory Formula
5. Oceanic
6. Red Sea Coral Pro
7. Tropic Marin Sea Salt
8. Tropic Marin PRO-REEF
9. SeaChem Marine Salt
10. SeaChem Reef Salt
11. Kent Sea Salt
12. Marine Environment dual phase formula
13. Coralife Scientific Grade Marine Salt
14. OceanPure PRO

Any others missing someone is interested in? Depending on funding we may need to limit the salts and those who contribute get a say in things. :)

What I'd really like to see even for just the most casual of users is a breakdown on Calcium, Alk & Mg levels of the salts and how balanced they are from something a little better then our typical test kits. It would be nice to have a new "baseline" on these 3 items as the last useful test was in 2005 and everybody posts different Ca/Alk numbers for the same salts on here!

We should be able to get some decent data from the test even though it's not super "pro" tested like ENC. How many grams of salt per gallon of water to arrive at 35% salinity. Can then figure out exactly how much water at 35% can be prepared from each bag/bucket of salt.

Initial pH, at 1hr, 5hrs, 24hrs.

I could also drop an ORP probe in the salt as it's mixing and record it at 5,10,15,... minute increments. Could be extrapolated to how fast the mix clears/dissolves. This may or may not be useful but I can do it so why not.

Any other simple "pre-test" that could be done before sending the samples I'd do if people have any ideas or requests.

We can all discuss exact mixing & procedures ahead of time to handle everything the best we can to not contaminate anything. We could also do a pure RO/DI test also just to double check to make sure no silica/phosphates are in the water and falsely raising the salt levels. I doubt it but it technically should be done.

All ideas are welcome,

Carlo

[HowardW]

<<< 3. Marine Enterprises Crystal Sea Marinemix

4. Marine Enterprises Crystal Sea Bioassay Laboratory Formula >>>



No need to test both of these as they are the same salt, the only difference being the Marinemix contains a de-chlorinator and the Bioassay does not.

[cayars]

But are they really the same?

From website:
Crystal Sea™ Marinemix is ideal for use with municipal tapwater containing chlorine/chloramies since it contains sodium thiosulfate (de-chlorinator). Crystal Sea™ Marinemix is one of the few salts available that has the blending capability to eliminate potentially harmful chlorine/chloramines. Crystal Sea™ Bioassay Laboratory Formula does not contain sodium thiosulfate (de-chlorinator). This formula is ideally suited for laboratory research and reef systems which pre-process water with R/O (reverse osmosis) and D/I (de-ionization). Other than the inclusion or exclusion of sodium thiosulfate, both products are the finest quality marinemixes available on the market.

So are they really the same or do we just assume the only difference is the sodium thiosulfate? It never says they are the same only "finest quality...".

One can surely go if testing needs to be more limited.

Confirmed $ contributors thus far:
cayars
Antman
Boomer
HowardW

Carlo

[Boomer]

If we look at past data they are not the same. There is a 3 gal difference between the two in a 50 gal bag. The dechlor added would not yield such a difference. And the data sheets show a difference also in a number of ions.

Carlo forget the ORP you will be pulling your hair out ;)

[HowardW]

Hmmmm.....the way they have it worded on their website below it leads one to believe they are the same with the Marinemix containing a de-chlorinator.

IIRC, I asked someone at ME awhile back and they said they were pretty much the same salt. Maybe I will call and ask again.


<<< Q: What is the difference between Crystal Sea Marinemix and Crystal Bioassay Laboratory Formula?

A:
Crystal Sea™ Marinemix is ideal for use with municipal tapwater containing chlorine/chloramies since it contains sodium thiosulfate (de-chlorinator). Crystal Sea™ Marinemix is one of the few salts available that has the blending capability to eliminate potentially harmful chlorine/chloramines. Crystal Sea™ Bioassay Laboratory Formula does not contain sodium thiosulfate (de-chlorinator). This formula is ideally suited for laboratory research and reef systems which pre-process water with R/O (reverse osmosis) and D/I (de-ionization). Other than the inclusion or exclusion of sodium thiosulfate, both products are the finest quality marinemixes available on the market. >>>

[cayars]

Pretty much is like saying similar. One could say IO and RC are pretty much the same too.

Depends what one considers "pretty much" :)

Carlo

[cayars]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10853986#post10853986 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Boomer
If we look at past data they are not the same. There is a 3 gal difference between the two in a 50 gal bag. The dechlor added would not yield such a difference. And the data sheets show a difference also in a number of ions.

Carlo forget the ORP you will be pulling your hair out ;)
Agree ORP might be a real pain but I can do it easily and log it so I'll give it a try. It may or may not show anything useful.

I took a look at the MEI site but couldn't find the data sheets on them. My old link is now broken. Do you have a new link or the actual data sheets Boomer?

Thanks,
Carlo

[HowardW]

Ok, just called ME and they confirmed the Marinemix and Bioassay are 100% exactly the same salt with the Marinemix also containing a de-chlorinator.

[Boomer]

Go to our "Reef Chemistry Articles",and scroll way down the list and you will see salt assays, "Inland Salt Study" If you look at these two salts you will clearly see they are not the same but "similar".

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=102605

[Boomer]

Howard I know they say that but I don't buy it :) More than likely we will have to drop one form the list just like SeaChem. We would need like ~ $400 do do them all.

Some things to look at.

"We" are going to have to have bags of these salts, 1 of ea bag. "We" can not afford to send them all these bags full. There will have to be a means where dry salt mixes samples are sent to then for assay, after "we" make sure the dry mix is thoroughly tumbles/mixed before the dry mix is sent out.. "We" should not be playing with them, although "we" could play with the remainder of the bags and add some stuff to the said final data sheet.

[cayars]

Agree Boomer.

I knew "both" were in one of the studies as I have the numbers but couldn't remember which study it was in.

I'm surprised more people aren't interested in jumping in for this.

Carlo

[Boomer]

So far I'm shocked they are not more interested. Start a new thread to see if we get more hits.

Something like...............

New salt study assay..........

should get crap loads of hits and dump it on two more of the forums here on RC

[cayars]

Yep was what I was thinking also. I'll do it later tonight and put a pointer here. Get this thread back on target. :)

Carlo

[Dr Begalke]

I'd chip in for the testing of different salt mixes, I personally would like to test 50/50 oceanic/IO.

[Dr Begalke]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10773305#post10773305 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sabbath
Has anyone tried this service? It looks appealing to me in that it test for more more things for less money. http://www.natureef.com/

I am not sure how they can claim to test pH, but OK...

[cayars]

Look at the results Natureef.com is giving. It appears they may be using common test kits.

Carlo

[DrBegalke]

New thread on the reef discussion forum regarding testing of salt mixes:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1216536

[Billybeau1]

You guys got way too much time on your hands. :(

[cayars]

Nah, you just make time for things that are important or intrigue you.

Carlo

[Billybeau1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10849248#post10849248 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by cayars
Nah, only Oceanic tests that high. :)

Got both salts on the list.

Carlo

Not true.

I tested Coralife at around 560, Kent at around 540 and Seachems Reef came in at around 540. despite what Howard said. :D

[HowardW]

<<< and Seachems Reef came in at around 540. despite what Howard said. >>>


BB, A gentlemans bet that the water testing service comes in well below 500ppm calcium on the Seachem Reef Salt?

[Billybeau1]

I'll take that bet. :D

Make sure you are talking about their reef salt and not their marine salt.

[cayars]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10862366#post10862366 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Billybeau1
Not true.

I tested Coralife at around 560, Kent at around 540 and Seachems Reef came in at around 540. despite what Howard said. :D

Me thinks you need a new test kit or refractomer/salinity monitor (or calibration). :)

None of those will come close to 500. The only salt I've ever tested over 500 is Oceanic.

Any side bets?

Carlo

PS you seem about 100 ppm high to me on each test number.

[HowardW]

<<< Howard I know they say that but I don't buy it >>>


Boomer, I don't dispute what you say, however what motivation would Marine Enterprises have for saying their two salt formulas are exactly the same (except for the de-chlor added to Marinemix) if they were in fact different blends?

[cayars]

HowardW, check out the following study. Both salts are there and slightly different.

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2005/11/aafeature1

Carlo

[USC-fan]

Anyone who signs up for this please request SG testing. I just can't understand why they don't test for that.

[Boomer]

That has already been brought up. How may grams of salt yeilds 35 ppt salinity or 1.0264. This is usually a function of the moisture content. If there is 10% moisture the salinity will drop 3.5 ppt or will yield a salinity of only 31.5.

[USC-fan]

/\/\/\Was that referring to my post??

I was just saying the lab should test for SG also.....

[Billybeau1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10863841#post10863841 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by cayars
Me thinks you need a new test kit or refractomer/salinity monitor (or calibration). :)

None of those will come close to 500. The only salt I've ever tested over 500 is Oceanic.

Any side bets?

Carlo

PS you seem about 100 ppm high to me on each test number.

Well then you haven't tested Coralife in awhile. Or Seachem Reef Salt for that matter. I do all my testing with a refractometer calibrated with 53mS pinpoint fluid and use 3 different calcium test kits that all match. All my testing is done with salt mixed at 35 ppt.

Yes I will take that side bet. :D

[cayars]

Billybeau1 your on. :)
Here's the data sheet on Seachem Reef Salt. It shows calcium at 442. http://www.seachem.com/products/product_pages/SaltSpecs.htm

I've never used Coralife so that one was only an assumption. The Kent tests similar as RC for me but not close to 500 from what I've ever seen.

The Inland Reef Aquaria Salt Study (11/2005) has Kent at 325, Oceanic at 450 and no Coralife values (both seems light to me).

Carlo

[Billybeau1]

You can throw Seachems data sheets out the window. They are about as accurate as the reference solutions they supply with their test kits.

When are you people going to learn. :(

Reference solutions mean squat. Data sheets mean squat.

I've spend more hours testing then I care to admit.

The numbers I post don't come out of thin air. And my testing methods are carefully carried out and verified a number of times.

I know all about bad test kits and testing error. Been there, done that.

I have, to date, tested 8 different salt mixes, all under the same conditions.

I'm not done yet.

:D

[cayars]

I agree with you Billy on the use of the data sheet and relying on what they say. Same for many salt manufactures. That's a part of the reason why I wanted to do this.

I too have tested a lot of salts although not the same set as you and find a large difference on the same batch depending on the test kit used. Salifert seems really high to me on Ca numbers (into 500s) while the API brand seems more realistic which is what I typically use these days.

That's another cool reason for the tests. Besides knowing the actual values of the salts we can also see what the different test kits are showing. I've got a few kits and can "hand test" the Ca/Alk numbers with those also and show the differences from what we get back on each salt. Lots of good information to be gained from this.

Carlo

PS you know we're just having fun here. Don't take anything said personally.

[Billybeau1]

I think a lot of these salt manufacturers base their numbers on 1.023 for some reason. If you run your tank ant 1.026, 3 points makes a big difference in the calcium level in the water.

If a salt has 500 ppm at 1.026 then it is more like 440 at 1.023

[Boomer]

USC

Yes that was referring to your post. I was just explaining how it is done, so you can see there will be a SG but given in a different way. When salts are assayed they don't' measure SG but more like real Salinity which can be converted to SG.

The real purpose for me for this test is not so much to see what is in a salt but to see how the salts fare when Bob, Tom or Sue who are part of this test, send part of their bag of salt in for testing and can then compare it against their test kit.

I mostly interested in the Bromide. They do use Spectrophotometery, which can rest for Bromide if they have "the means". But ICP, which they don't' seem to have is the real way to go.

As far as NatureReef goes I use to be friend long ago with the owner Adolf Klosterman, he is one very sharp guy. I would agree he is more than likely using test kits but he is also giving other data no seen on other so called reports. However, this data, such as CO2, HCO3-, CO3-- and CAI, ASI are all calculated values like from Buch-Park Equations or the CO2syt program. They are not measured values but would still be very accurate. We discussed how he did this years ago and we both got the same anwer by different "means" And are not values I think anyone would be interested in . I do have issue with their O2 test. If they are not sending you a "fixing" reagent the O2 test is useless.

[Boomer]

If we assume the Inland salt assay is correct then for these salts, then how does ones current testing compare ?

AquaMedic, Oceanic, Omega Sea, BioSea, CrystalSea, Tropic Marine, IO, Kent, CrystaSea Bio.


All mixed to yield a Salinity of 35 ppt


http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2005/12/aafeature1_album/ca.gif

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2005/12/aafeature1_album/mg.gif

[Billybeau1]

Well, I recently tested 3 of them listed at 35 ppt

Oceanic was 580 ppm
Kent was 545 ppm
IO was 360 ppm

Thats what I came up with. We don't know if the formula's have been changed since that test was done.

And the magnesium are ridiculously high. There is no way IO has 1400 ppm of mag at 35 ppt. More like 1100.

[Boomer]

We don't know if the formula's have been changed since that test was done

And some of those bags when tested Billy were 10 months old. I'm beginning to see fault with this Inland Study. To many things seem to be showing out of line the more I look around.

[cayars]

You're reading my mind Boomer. Some of the test numbers just don't seem real. This has been bugging me for a couple of months.

Carlo

[melev]

I'd be willing to contribute either a salt sample and/or funds toward a Reef Central study.

[cayars]

Looks like it's going to be done for free (or close to it) for us!

Check out the other thread.

Carlo

[DrBegalke]

I think the reason they don't test for SG is that it is something which is easily accurately tested on site with a high quality refractometer.

Here is the thread regarding the study:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1216536

[Boomer]

Dr..

That would be a EC meter, which is the std for seawater Salinity. What the normal procedure is, add 35 grams of the salt mix to 965 ml of water and check the Salinity and then readjust Salinity to 35 ppt by adding more salt mix. The difference in the two gives you the moisture content. Most salts will be well below the 35 ppt on only using 35 grams. Some may be as low as 29 ppt, meaning 6 grams of that initial 35 grams is water. This why a 50 gal bag does not yield a Salinity of 35 ppt but something less, like in the mid 40 gal range. Std mixing procedures in many labs for pure water is not RO/DI water but Lab grade DI's, which produce water @ 18.2MƱ-cm.



You need to call or contact them and see if they can test for Bromide and by what means.

[DrBegalke]

boomer, thanks for the info.

i'll ask about bromide.

as far as the normal procedure, i'm curious as to why they used 965 ml versus a larger volume of water?

its seems like the larger volume you mix, the less chance of variability. For instance, let's say we mixed 0.35 grams of salt into 9.65 ml of water, and took 10 samples all from the same bag of IO salt... I think there would be some differences between them...

[DrBegalke]

Carlo: hey, i am sorry if i contacted AWT... we can (and should) still send in blinded samples for comparison...

each method (us sending in, AWT mixing the saltwater) will have their own unique biases and potential sources of error, so it will would be great to have both done.

i'm still willing to chip in :)

boomer: they will use Hach lab grade distilled water.

[cayars]

Don't worry about it Doc.

Let them give us the main numbers people can use for test kit reference like Calcium, Alkalinity & Magnesium. I'll follow up with some independant tests using 4 different similar services later.

Carlo

[Billybeau1]

Now I'm confused :confused:

If AWT is an independent testing company, whats all the hubub about blind testing. Are you guys worried about outside interference ?

This IS the internet you know. Have you any idea how many people are looking at this and the other related threads ?

Anybody wonder why AWT is so eager to perform this test for you for free ?

Just asking ?

[cayars]

The for free part is easy. VERY CHEAP ADVERTISING for them. Think about all the business they will get from the exposure.

Yes they are an Independent Testing Company. But I'm more concerned with validity of their results. For example are they using certified salt water calibration solutions? SW & FW are different for many tests and their is usually interference on SW tests without setting curves using known samples at specific solidities. What calibration solutions are they using? If so at what salinity? How do they use them against the samples sent to them from clients if they aren't checking the clients salinity, etc, etc? Tip of the iceberg so to speak. There are to many odd-ball things I see that keep me from trusting the results without a backup confirmation.

How can we have faith in their results? Simple, confirmation from another source.

Just looking at some of the results they have given people with NSW quoted values shows problems in itself. Boomer as pointed this out a few times.

I can't help but wonder when you're off by a whole decimal point or two on NSW values and quoting wrong values for NSW parameters, then how are you testing? Something, somewhere in some of their values is not correct.

Carlo

[Boomer]

Dr

its seems like the larger volume you mix, the less chance of variability. For instance, let's say we mixed 0.35 grams of salt into 9.65 ml of water, and took 10 samples all from the same bag of IO salt... I think there would be some differences between them...

All salt mixes in dry form should be thoroughly mixed before use. If it is done that way it is not an issue. For most however mixing all the salt in one batch is the best. I doubt they are going to mix all the alt in the bag. You may want to check to be sure as to the procedure they are going to use.

You do not HAVE to do 35 grams in 965 ml of water one can easily x that, i.e., 10 x 35 grams in 10 x 965 ml of water. It was just an example. We want or should want to know the moisture content and how much salt mix in a bag yeilds to x ppt in say 50 gals

[USC-fan]

Okay i just got my reference kit from AWT, what is the best way to sample water for my tank?

[USC-fan]

bump

[jnarowe]

Damn...lost my post.

That Inland Assay doesn't look so hot to me. I have tested 5 of those salts with siginificantly different results. But as I have said before, and I'll say again, salts change from batch-to-batch. What I do is buy a bucket of each salt I am interested in, test it @ 1.026, and then buy a bunch of the best one.

The nice thing is that Tropic Marin Pro and OceanPure Pro both put batch numbers on their salt so it is a little more comfortable when I buy a dozen or more boxes.

Recently, TMP numbers didn't come close to OPP.

[flyyyguy]

Forgiveme if Im lazy and didnt read this entirely.

Im defintely game for dropping $25-50 for a one time hardcore ACCURATE water analysis of bot of my sytems. Is this company worth it?? Im a little skeptical after hearing Boomer pointing out they dont even know what natural levels of some things are, yet are making recommendations based on how your water differs from their innacurate numbers. Although to be honest, its the phosphate test that I am really interested in.

What about the second company listed posted by Billweld??

I use a company called Natureef. They test 26 parameters for $20.00 I am very satisfied with their reports. I believe the founder is a Phd. Chemist. Natureef.com or
Coral Reef Research Inc. 5098 NW 37th Ave. Unit A Taramac Fl 33309. They will fax and mail results promptly.

On a related note. Does anyone know of a company who will run simply a handful of chosen tests for cheaper?

[rckrzy1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10510921#post10510921 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by billweld
I use a company called Natureef. They test 26 parameters for $20.00 I am very satisfied with their reports. I believe the founder is a Phd. Chemist. Natureef.com or
Coral Reef Research Inc. 5098 NW 37th Ave. Unit A Taramac Fl 33309. They will fax and mail results promptly.

Are these folks still in business ? Their only contact is a juno email address that bounces.