Return PUMP???

[wnecbubba74]

I'm thinking of building a sump in the basement to cut down on the noise .....What is a good return pump for a good price??? It would have to travel about 12'.

[JetCat USA]

any or the Sequence pressure pump suited to the desired GPH flow you desire.

[JCTewks]

what size tank? total system volume? desired GPH flow? Those answers would help in making a recomendation.

At 12' you might not need a pressure rated pump...some of the non PR can do good volumes at higher head than that.

[JetCat USA]

12' of vertical lift plus head loss from plumbing is reaching the cutoff flow of most non pressure rated pumps.

[customcolor]

ill be using a gen-X mak4 for my return with 10' head for my 125 but i have a close loop too for extra flow

[JCTewks]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10526214#post10526214 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by JetCat USA
12' of vertical lift plus head loss from plumbing is reaching the cutoff flow of most non pressure rated pumps.

It may be reaching the cut off, but if you have a 200 gal tank, you only need 400GPH out of your retuen pump...even a dart could do that.

[sjm817]

Gen-X Mak4 is a great pump at a great price. $120 from www.premiumaquatics.com

[steelerguy]

Running a non pressure rated pump at or near the limit of it's head pressure rating sounds like a good way to burn through them quickly. I would spend a few extra bucks and a little more on electricity to have a pump that could easily meet the pressure demands.

[JCTewks]

Head pressure does not hurt centrifugal pumps!!!
Let me repeat,
Head pressure does not hurt centrifugal pumps!!!

running a pump with higher head on it actually lowers the wattage...look at the pump curves, they'll show you what i'm talking about. really the only way to quickly ruin a well built pump is to run it dry, and external pumps can even run dry for awhile until the seal burns out...the motor is still good though.

Find the pump that meets your flow needs at the given pressure for the least watts and buy it!! Wether it's a pressure rated pump or not. All the "pressure rating" means is that it will pump more water at higher pressure.

[JetCat USA]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10528590#post10528590 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by JCTewks


running a pump with higher head on it actually lowers the wattage...look at the pump curves, they'll show you what i'm talking about.

Yeah a low speed Sequence ReeFlo, not your average high speed (still low pressure) pumps. agreed that running them at even shut off doesn't cause physical damage to the pump.

[JCTewks]

so like I said, just find the lowest wattage pump that will meet your needs and buy it...just make sure it is a good quality pump

[JetCat USA]

Jeff

other then yourself, i don't think you'll find many people who want to pay 200+ for a pump and then only get a couple hundred gallon an hour out of it.........i could be wrong, but i doubt it.

[JCTewks]

It look like the Sequence Tarpon will put out 900gph, using 190watts ar 15' head

the Sequence Barracuda puts out 2000GPH, usiong 190watts at 15'head.

the barracuda (not the pressure rated pump) will give you more flow at the same watts. You could also dial the barracuda back some more and get less flow and lower watts.

Here is where the info came from http://www.reeflopumps.com/productoverview.html

[JCTewks]

however, I still believe in 1.5-2 times system volume through the sump and skimmer per hour...maybe look at the Gen-X pumps like sjm said, although i can't seem to find flow curve/power draw charts for them.

[wnecbubba74]

Well I'm looking for a pump that will return about 1100ish gph. I was also thinking about running my AquaC 180 with the same pump just to cut down on cost. I've heard of people running their skimmers on the same pump....so how would you do that???? Just split the line??? and have a value to adjust the flow????

Other info: The main tank is a 90 and the sump will be a 55g.

[JCTewks]

If you are wanting to use one pump to do both you'd just tee off after the pump and put valves on both the return line and the skimmer line. remember that running tha aquac is going to add more head pressure to the pump. Use the Head calc here on RC and figure out what your real pressure will be with all of the return plumbing elbows and such along with the extra pressure of the skimmer and then you'll have a better grasp on what pump you'll need. You might be surprised and have 20+feet of pressure after you figure all of that out....then you'll need a bigger pump=more money. You might be better off price wise to buy two seperate pumps. IIRC the AquaC 180 needs like a mag12 or comparable.

[wnecbubba74]

So whats a brand to buy??? I've been looking and i can find pumps from $$180ish up to 700$$. I would want something that will last so i dont end up spending more money in the long run. Any suggestions???

[Dwarf Seahorses]

Eheim!

[steelerguy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10528590#post10528590 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by JCTewks
Head pressure does not hurt centrifugal pumps!!!
Let me repeat,
Head pressure does not hurt centrifugal pumps!!!

running a pump with higher head on it actually lowers the wattage...look at the pump curves, they'll show you what i'm talking about. really the only way to quickly ruin a well built pump is to run it dry, and external pumps can even run dry for awhile until the seal burns out...the motor is still good though.

Find the pump that meets your flow needs at the given pressure for the least watts and buy it!! Wether it's a pressure rated pump or not. All the "pressure rating" means is that it will pump more water at higher pressure.

Operating a centrifugal pump near it's shut off point can cause noise and wearing of the shaft.

[marcrothschild]

I have a sequence Tarpon on my 220, its a powerfull pump with a very high quality motor. For the wattage used it has the best flow rates in moderate head pressure applications. The Eheim would not put out much flow @ 12" of head pressure, but they are good pumps.
When calculating head pressure, its not just the distance from pump to tank, all angles and fittings add head pressure. The Dart is another good pump, but it does not resist head loss like the Tarpon does. If you go with the Tarpon, be aware that it is a very large pump, and it takes up some space. It also produces a fairly audible humm. If I could afford it, a red dragon would be sweet because they are practically silent, and very efficient. But IMO paying $1000.00 for a return pump is retarded....unless you have very deep pockets.

[RicGio]

Go with the Pan World 100 px(21' shutoff head). I'm running a Gen X mak 4 on my closed loop. Kinda loud.

[sjm817]

Noise is not usually a concern with a basement return pump.

[JCTewks]

Like I said earlier...you relly need to figure out what your total pressure will be before deciding on a pump. Sit down with pen and paper and figure out all of your return plumbing...90's, tee's, diameter, length of straight runs, etc...I would use 1 1/2" pipe and you'll lose less flow that way. then use the head calculater and see what your actual expected pressure will be...then start looking at pumps. You'll prob want external, as heat and noise won't really be an issue with an air cooled pump in a basement...so just pick the pump that will give you the desired flow at the head loss you have. Iwaki, Gen-X, Pan World, and Sequence are all good pumps. So, just pick the one that will best suit your needs with the lowest watts. Pumps are something that you definitely want low watts as they are running 24/7 and operating costs will add up real quick between a 200 watt pump and a 350 watt pump.

Once you figure out your plumbing and the total head pressure we'll be more able to help you find a good quality pump that will fit your needs.

[RicGio]

The Gen x Mak 40 was SO loud that I could hear it in my living room and the pump WAS in the basement.

[sjm817]

Mine isn't really all that loud. No possible way can I hear it at the display. The added head from the basement does make it louder. I have some flow T'd off to feed the fuge. If I open the valve to allow most to go to the fuge, it is pretty quiet, but again, it not that bad anyway.

Here is a link to it @ Premium Aquatics with 9 reviews.
http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=GEN-X&Category_Code=MAK4

[djohnston]

I have had good luck with my Dolphin Pump. It has been reliable and quiet.

[customcolor]

i use a dolphin for my closed loop and i second that it realy quiet!

[wnecbubba74]

Thanks

[wnecbubba74]

Whats the report on Gen-x pumps??? and who sells dolphin pumps??? I cant find them!!!!

[customcolor]

dalphin pumps (http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_AquariumPage~PageAlias~pumps_dolphin_amp_master_s_series_aqua_sea_sp.html) <BR> dalphin home page (http://www.dolphinpumps.com/)
<BR>
i test ran my gen x mak 4 last nght when it was up to the tank and it was loud enough to make me be thankful i am puting it in the basement. it wasnt real loud but it was a good hum and i want it quit in our livin room.(just incase i have to sleep on the couch some night:p )

[djohnston]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10545118#post10545118 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by wnecbubba74
Whats the report on Gen-x pumps??? and who sells dolphin pumps??? I cant find them!!!!

I got mine from marinedepot.com