Starting a New 65 Gallon Reef

[Mykel Obvious]

Ok, so I'm new here and I'm about to start my second attempt at a reef tank... my first tank was a 30 gallon long that I did everything I could do wrong as rapidly as possible... That tank taught me quite a bit and I hope to make use of the things I learned the hard way to start my new system off right...

I arrived at the basic design for this system due to the limitations of space for the near future... it will be run without a sump, using as many HOT options as possible and having only an auto-top-off system in the stand...

I'm still in the equipment gathering stages at this point, but here's the plan anyway:

65 gallon Perfecto tank and stand
Current USA Orbit 384 watt fixture (36"- 4x96W Power Compact w/ 3 LED moonlights) with the possible addition of my old All Glass 36" 110 watt PC fixture for a total of 494 watts
AquaC Remora Pro skimmer with surface box and mag drive 3 pump options
My Reef Creations 4.5 HOT Calcium Reactor
2x Turbelle Nanostream 6025 powerheads
Ebo Jager 250 w heater
Nautilis 3A peristaltic pump and float switch for auto-top-off (from Innovative Aquatics)

The tank will be set up with a 5-6" DSB built from around 100 lbs. of CaribSea Araga-max oolitic sand and 20+ lbs. of Live Sand... I plan to use as much of the 25 lbs. of EcoRox (dry Fiji base rock purchased from Two Part Solution) as needed to build a stable base for the 50 lbs of Marshall Islands rock I plan to order from Premium Aquatics if they ever get it back in stock :p

The lighting will be run on a 24 hour dual timer by Coralife, and I will be using a 5 stage RO/DI system also purchased from Two Part Solution for all water used in the system.

Badly taken pictures will be forthcoming after the parts are in and the system is setup with live rock and sand (the equipment ate my camera fund for now, so all I have is a 1.3 mpix camera phone to work with)... I plan on doing a LONG SLOW cycle with the rock, then adding detrivore kits from IPSF and Inland Aquatics (pods, mini-brittle stars and the like)

This tank will be a crab free zone as I much prefer snails and shrimp for cleanup duty... several Astraea, Nassarius, Trochus , Turbo snails and perhaps a Fighting Conch or two, along with a few Cleaner and Fire and Sexy shrimp, at least one Pistol shrimp and any other reef safe shrimp I come across... I'll most likely add one Fromia milleporella Red Starfish and one "Pinky Cuke" (IPSF name for it) once the tank is 6 months old...

The tank will be a mixed reef consisting mostly of Softies, Shrooms, Polyps of all sorts with one or two LPS (Fungia and Slipper possibly)... would like a Rose BTA after the tank is a 6 months old and perhaps a T. Maxima if the lighting looks good enough (this would live at the top of the rock area and will be decided at a much later date)

As to fish, I'm looking at the following list over time:
pair of Gold Striped Maroon Clowns
1 Yellow Watchman Goby
pair of Green Clown Gobies
1 Yellow Tailed Fang Blenny
1 Orchid Dottyback

Well, that's all for now LOL... please feel free to comment on anything I may have overlooked or any ideas you might have to share on how to make this the best system I can

Thanks for your time...

[Jamesurq]

Skip the seastars and skip the maxima clam.

Other than that - I think it's a great setup.

Good luck with it.

[OneDayMatt]

Mistake #1 - HOB skimmer. I'd suggest buying a better skimmer used. I know it's more expensive to run a sump/return/overflow/big skimmer at first, but I've had nothing but annoyances with HOB skimmers. The worst part is the constant fiddling. As water levels change in the tank, so do the skimmers ability to do their jobs. It's just plain annoying.

[Coolguy818]

I ran a HOB skimmer for about 3 months...... And couldn't take it anymore. I had the Coralife Super Skimmer on my setup. I't didn't overflow, but I did have problems with microbubbles.

What is stopping you from doing the sump setup?

If you are only looking into doing the HOB setup, look into setting up a refugium, this is very beneficial. Keeps the Nitrates in check.

CPR sells a HOB Refugium.

Also I have a somewhat similar tank. Check it out. Click the red house above.

[Kiel'thalin]

Spend that money for the lighting on a set of t-5's such as a Tek or Aquactinics fixture, you will thank yourself down the road. Also consider adding a overflow box and a sump. IMO the lighting, filter, and waterflow would be my 1st and most important buys... I also agree with the skimmer, HOB are junk, I even bought the Deltec one that comes with its own issues, nothing can replace a simple needlewheel in sump skimmer. You can take a small tank and make your own sump, it is very simple and probably the single best thing you can do for the tank...

[GatorWPB]

I have a standard 65g and love it. I also agree with the others that the sump is a great idea. I have a 20g refugium under the stand and it helps keep my water params excellent.
Also, go with the best lighting you can (as said above) because you'd hate to have to upgrade later when you want to get sps or clams.
I have the 2x150w 36" sunpod which is a more reasonable MH option.
Good luck!

[Mykel Obvious]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10540538#post10540538 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Jamesurq
Skip the seastars and skip the maxima clam.

Yeah, that's what my head is telling me, I just hope I can stick to it LOL

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10540612#post10540612 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by OneDayMatt
Mistake #1 - HOB skimmer. I'd suggest buying a better skimmer used. I know it's more expensive to run a sump/return/overflow/big skimmer at first, but I've had nothing but annoyances with HOB skimmers. The worst part is the constant fiddling. As water levels change in the tank, so do the skimmers ability to do their jobs. It's just plain annoying.
So what HOB skimmer did you run? I've heard nothing but good reviews from several different sources on the Remora Pro... and as I bought the surface skimmer/ bubble trap box, I don't expect too many problems on that front... and with the auto top-off setup, the water level should be rock solid in the tank, don't ya think??

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10540896#post10540896 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Coolguy818
...I had the Coralife Super Skimmer on my setup. I't didn't overflow, but I did have problems with microbubbles.

What is stopping you from doing the sump setup?

If you are only looking into doing the HOB setup, look into setting up a refugium, this is very beneficial. Keeps the Nitrates in check.

CPR sells a HOB Refugium.

Again, Remora Pro gets rave reviews as one of the top 2 HOT skimmers (CPR BakPak is the other favorite)... bubbles shouldn't be a prob with the surface box (http://www.desertcoralaquatics.com/protein-skimmers/aquac-remora-hang-on-series-protein-skimmers/remora-pro-surface-organic-skimmer-and-bubble-trap-for-mag-drive-3/prod_169.html)

The main reason I decided to go without a sump or 'fuge is a combination of limited space and I just don't see the $300+ being worth it for this sized tank... once you add the cost of an overflow, pump, the 'fuge itself and plumbing, it got ridiculously expensive for what I see as little return as I'm going to run a DSB in the display the Nitrates will be very little problem (that's all that kept my 30L from being a total disaster) and I'll have few 'pod eaters to deplete the supply in the first place... I have looked at the small CPR hang-on 'fuge as an option for the future if I find it necessary to keep the critter population up.


<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10541218#post10541218 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Kiel'thalin
Spend that money for the lighting on a set of t-5's such as a Tek or Aquactinics fixture, you will thank yourself down the road. Also consider adding a overflow box and a sump. IMO the lighting, filter, and waterflow would be my 1st and most important buys... I also agree with the skimmer, HOB are junk, I even bought the Deltec one that comes with its own issues, nothing can replace a simple needlewheel in sump skimmer. You can take a small tank and make your own sump, it is very simple and probably the single best thing you can do for the tank...

I'm not really familiar with the t-5's so ya got me there... the PCs did well on my old tank, and I'll be up by about 288 watts from the previous tank... for what I want to keep, I think I'll be alright for quite a while... with a 6 inch sand bed, my water column will only be 18 inches at the deepest point and PCs have plenty of penetration at that depth...

Flow should be quite adequate with the 2 nanostreams and the output of the skimmer... if not, I'll add another powerhead or two

As to skimmer, everyone has their favorites and when I finally get a larger place and work on a 180 gallon dream tank for SPS, then I'll look into a large sump and skimmer... for a predominantly Softie tank, I think this will do fine for quite a while... I'm really relying on a huge host of sand bed critters for clean up, and I plan to add new ones as needed (I really think that is the biggest failure of most DSB setups... the lack of added diversity and replenishing the stock as needed... I guess I follow Dr. Ron Shimek's beliefs on sand beds)

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10542970#post10542970 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by GatorWPB
I have a standard 65g and love it. I also agree with the others that the sump is a great idea. I have a 20g refugium under the stand and it helps keep my water params excellent.
Also, go with the best lighting you can (as said above) because you'd hate to have to upgrade later when you want to get sps or clams.
I have the 2x150w 36" sunpod which is a more reasonable MH option.
Good luck!

I looked closely at MH options... but this house is old, and the 100F+ temps we got this week kept it at 80F+ even with the air running full blast... add the heat from the MHs and I'll have to buy a chiller to keep the tank @ a stable 80F... again, a larger place (which I hope to get in the next 2 years) will mean a MUCH larger reef and hopefully a setup for SPS to go besided this tank...

Gator, how do you keep your tank cool??

Also, what does the 'fuge do that the DSB in the display doesn't? I know having the extra 10-20 gallons of water is helpful (dilution is the solution to pollution and all) but the Nitrates will go away just as fast with 125 lbs of sand in the main tank (besides, the watchman goby and pistol shrimp will love it and I really like the look of a DSB anyway)... I plan on having a bit of macro-algae in the tank, as I like the looks, and perhaps a tiny patch of sea grass in one corner (still up in the air about that idea though)... I'm just not seeing how $300+ in cost can make up for the tiny bit of added water and a few extra 'pods... the same $ can be spent on replenishing the DSB or even on a 12 gallon Nanocube for seahorses or something :D

Again, thanks for the replies... keep 'em coming and I'll keep this thread updated as the build progresses

[Kiel'thalin]

A sump is not all that expensive, here was the cost of mine:
10 gallon tank: $10
Baffles: $5 from local glass shop
Mag 5 Return pump: $50
Overflow box: $50
Plumbing: <$20

I think you can fit a 20 gallon under that stand, you can find those for less than $30. Not only will it add volume to you overall system a sump will clear out your display of all those HOB items and the heater. Also this will greatly increase your oxygen levels for your fish and makes sure the water surface in the tank stays clear. Another thing is if you have a problem with a fish, you can throw him down in the sump until you can make a trip to the LFS. It justs make everything a lot easier and hides everything for a more cleaner setup. The T-5's I was talking about will give you a better choice of how you want your tank to look, you can pick and choose different spectrums to get the exact color that pleases your eyes. It is defiently something to look into. Good luck and hope everything works out for you... I also think everyone would agree that has switched from a HOB skimmer to a external/internal sump skimmer, it is like night and day difference.

[CyclistMT]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10540224#post10540224 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Mykel Obvious
My Reef Creations 4.5 HOT Calcium Reactor

Nautilis 3A peristaltic pump and float switch for auto-top-off (from Innovative Aquatics)

I personally think these two things are unnecessary. Since this is predominantely a softie tank, skip the calcium reactor and use a two part solution if you don't want to mess with Kalkwasser. That's assuming you even need it. You may be able to maintain calcium levels with water changes alone depending on salt choice. But be prepared to dose additional if you find that is not enough.

Instead of the peristalic pump, use an Aqualifter if you're just topping off with RO/DI water.

Rethinking these two items will save you a bunch of money.

I too have read your skimmer choice is one of the better ones for a HOT application. I personally don't like PCs but again, it's a softie tank so you should be just fine.

Shrooms, polyps, and softies can be very forgiving. Don't stress over it but take you're time like you've stated and you'll have an awesome tank in no time. Good luck!

[CyclistMT]

Oh, and I forgot...

<img src="/images/welcome.gif" width="500" height="62"><br><b><i><big><big>To Reef Central</b></i></big></big>

[Peter Eichler]

You really should look into a T5 fixture. You could get a 4,5,or6x39w setup that would be brighter than the 394w PC fixture and it will put out less heat and cost you a lot less to run electricity and bulb replacement wise.

[Mykel Obvious]

Ok, so both the calcium reactor and the peristaltic pump might be overkill in this situation... but I thought long and hard about them, and my reasoning is thus:

I HATE to dose anything to do with calcium/alkalinity/pH... I had no end of trouble with this in my last tank and want to keep it balanced from the start... I already have a 20 lb. CO2 tank and regulator from my homebrewing setup, so the expense is just the reactor and media in this case and again, I hate dosing LOL... the biggest demand last time was my coralline algae, but I could never seem to keep things in the proper range, always jumping up and down... I hope to over come that with the calcium reactor and at worst kalkwasser replacement of evaporation... which lead me to the peristaltic pump idea...

The other reason for an auto top-off setup is stable salinity... I often work long hours, so I'm not always home at the same time each day... and on occasion I have to head out of town with minimal notice... my fish buddy is just that, a FISH buddy... he's not a reefer at all, and even with detailed instructions, he could break an anvil with the proverbial rubber hammer... I lost my last tank due to an unexpected trip out of town and the fish buddy not keeping up with top off water... tank was already outta round, and with his little bit of neglect on top of my huge amount, it all went wahoonie-shaped with a quickness... I'm hoping to avoid multiple issues by keeping the water toped up throughout the day... and I can run fans as needed to help keep it cool while still keeping the salinity stable... yeah, there are cheaper pumps, but with this one I can dose Kalk overnight to help keep the pH stable, and switch it to my RO/DI tank for top up durring the day

Oh yeah, not to mention I'm lazy and I'm a gadget hound
:D

Kiel'thalin, where did you find an overflow for $50 that you trust that much? The only ones I've found that I really trust are both over $100... Lifereef and CPR... I will keep this in mind though... reverse light 'fuge WOULD be nice... maybe I'll add one in a month or two when the fund level is back in a better place ;) with the high in-tank flow from the 2 nanostreams, I could get by with a lower gph pump (was still pricing it out as though I needed 600+ gph on a sump)... hmmm... and it IS a gadget LOL...

[Kiel'thalin]

I bought mine from the LFS, they come with those foam filters and are used for trickle filters, mine is rated for 600 gph, I am not sure on the brand. I installed a DIY durso standpipe to reduce noise. It has been running great for over 9 months, never lost a siphon, also there is no air bubbles in the siphon tube, I can take of pic and show you how I have it.

[CyclistMT]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10554040#post10554040 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Mykel Obvious
Ok, so both the calcium reactor and the peristaltic pump might be overkill in this situation... but I thought long and hard about them, and my reasoning is thus:

I HATE to dose anything to do with calcium/alkalinity/pH... I had no end of trouble with this in my last tank and want to keep it balanced from the start... I already have a 20 lb. CO2 tank and regulator from my homebrewing setup, so the expense is just the reactor and media in this case and again, I hate dosing LOL... the biggest demand last time was my coralline algae, but I could never seem to keep things in the proper range, always jumping up and down... I hope to over come that with the calcium reactor and at worst kalkwasser replacement of evaporation... which lead me to the peristaltic pump idea...

The other reason for an auto top-off setup is stable salinity... I often work long hours, so I'm not always home at the same time each day... and on occasion I have to head out of town with minimal notice... my fish buddy is just that, a FISH buddy... he's not a reefer at all, and even with detailed instructions, he could break an anvil with the proverbial rubber hammer... I lost my last tank due to an unexpected trip out of town and the fish buddy not keeping up with top off water... tank was already outta round, and with his little bit of neglect on top of my huge amount, it all went wahoonie-shaped with a quickness... I'm hoping to avoid multiple issues by keeping the water toped up throughout the day... and I can run fans as needed to help keep it cool while still keeping the salinity stable... yeah, there are cheaper pumps, but with this one I can dose Kalk overnight to help keep the pH stable, and switch it to my RO/DI tank for top up durring the day

Oh yeah, not to mention I'm lazy and I'm a gadget hound
:D


Fair enough, at least you have good reasoning. Still, if you want to save a bit, you could buy two Aqualifters and put them on seperate timers so that you can dose Kalk and RO/DI as easily as with the peristalic. I have used a hospital type peristalic in the past and it gave me more fits then it was worth. It took special tubing and the first little air bubble in the tubing would stop the pump and sound the alarm. The Aqualifter I'm currently using works just as well if not better cause I don't have to constantly fiddle with it.

Since you are planning on dosing Kalk, I'll say it again even though you have some of the parts. I doubt you will need a calcium reactor for a softie tank. I can appriciate being lazy so why do you want to complicate your system with something that you will have to fiddle with every once in while? Not to mention that you will have to refill the CO2 every so often. It just doesn't seem like low maintenance to me if you can get by without it.

I know what it's like to be a gadget hound. But I'm just slowly learning that some gadgets are worth more then others even if they cost less. :)

Just some food for thought.

[Mykel Obvious]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10554443#post10554443 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Kiel'thalin
I bought mine from the LFS, they come with those foam filters and are used for trickle filters, mine is rated for 600 gph, I am not sure on the brand. I installed a DIY durso standpipe to reduce noise. It has been running great for over 9 months, never lost a siphon, also there is no air bubbles in the siphon tube, I can take of pic and show you how I have it.

Yes, Please!! I'd love to see a pic of how you set it up... My LFS is "one of those stores"... the nearest good store is over an hour away, so I tend to buy online or from one of the big box retailers like PetCo or Petsmart (I bought my tank and stand from the Local Reptile Store LOL)... the trouble is finding someone to trust when I have questions about equipment or setups... the LFS guy has been running the store for about 20 years, but I really don't like the way he treats his salties and most of his advice is WAY outta date... that's why Reef Central is such a great place!!

I'll also take a look at the Aqualifters and see if they will do what I want...

Parts are rolling in, so I may be able to add water and get my live rock by next month...

Thanks again for everyone's help and advice!!!

[hoyta]

If you aren't willing to spend the money for the sump, skip the remora (which is the biggest piece of crap out there) and go with *gasp* and odyssea ps75 HOB. You can mesh-mod the impellar and pull some decent skinmate out... more than the remora. Plus, its alot cheaper.
Still a much better idea to go with a sump, and get a good in-sumo skimmer.....

[Kiel'thalin]

I snapped a quick pic this morning of how it looks on the back of the tank. As you can see the water level stays in that position using the standpipe. That is something I had to build, it is called a "gurgle buster" durso style standpipe. Here is the link on how it is constructed, it is very simple to make: http://home.everestkc.net/jrobertson57268/HGB/HGB_construction.html

There are no air bubbles in the siphon tube, and this thing has never clogged. I also have a two year old that liked to pull on the pvc piping, that is why you see a piece of 3/4" pipe between the back of the tank and the box, it makes it almost impossible to move the box around unless you take that pipe out...
http://home.mchsi.com/~kielthalin/Overflow.JPG

You also might want to consider getting the tank drilled, but cost will be a lot greater if you go that route.