what anemone for eclipse 12?

[SDhky]

Im setting my eclipse 12 back up with a 32 watt retrofit kit pc lights. what anemone can I put in there? I heard long tentacle anemones are the hardiest. would this be my best bet?

[Peter Eichler]

I wouldn't suggest any sort of clown anemone. A BTA would be the hardiest but I still wouldn't put an anemone in a system that small.

[SDhky]

howcome

[SDhky]

Ive seen it done before

[Peter Eichler]

If you're fishing for the answer you want to hear I'm not that guy.

Too many fluctuations in a tank that small and anemones need very high water quality typically. You'll never achieve very high water quality in a typical Eclipse 12.

[Der_Iron_Chef]

I wouldn't think that's enough light, to be honest.

[SDhky]

how much light should I get?

[Peter Eichler]

Why did I bother...

[SDhky]

I don't know why you bothered. Im not basing what I do with my tank off of 1 answer. I am planning on getting natural ocean water.

[SDhky]

any other opinions?

[tripinpn01]

roger your tank being too small. sorry man, but you will need a bigger tank.

[airinhere]

Hey there, anems are not easy or hardy. If you have a very well established tank (like a year old) and it is very well lit, then anemones are possible. (although most still have problems with them.) Bubble tips are probably the most forgiving species of anemone, people even claim to be able to keep them long term under PC lights. (but they have to feed them like crazy). The feeding pollutes the water and the polluted water kills the anemone.

If you would like to keep an anemone in a small tank like that, try looking for a long tentacle plate coral (fungia). Not exactly the same thing, but similar looking and much hardier. Or some hairy mushrooms or a euphyllia (frogspawn, torch, octopus coral).

If you are dead set on getting an anem, look for a larger tank setup (anems get about a foot across often in less than a year.) And make sure you have a good skimmer and halide lights. Do some reading about the types of anems and peoples success with them. the anem and clownfish forum is a great source of info. You will see lots of threads about "my anem doesnt look so good" and the person posting gets bashed for not doing their research first. ('anemone police' like to fly off the handle when people do the things 'they' used to do.)

Not trying to tell you what to do, just passing down info I learned along the way.

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10566791#post10566791 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by airinhere
Hey there, anems are not easy or hardy. If you have a very well established tank (like a year old) and it is very well lit, then anemones are possible. (although most still have problems with them.) Bubble tips are probably the most forgiving species of anemone, people even claim to be able to keep them long term under PC lights.



I disagree with this. ABout 90% of the stuff we keep in this hobby (pretty much everythign but zoos) is less hardy and less forgiving than a BTA. There is very little that will kill one.

FWIW, most of the BTA propogation being done, is being done under normal output shoplights.


If you would like to keep an anemone in a small tank like that, try looking for a long tentacle plate coral (fungia).

A long tentacle plate much hardier than a BTA? Are you serious?


The one problem with keeping a BTA in a tank like this is you wont be able to keep much else, because theres just not enough space to keep it from stinging things.

[airinhere]

the long tentacle plates I have dealt with are almost always bulletproof. They dont like being handled, but feed them regularly and they are monsters. Compared to an anemone, not even close.

And I stand by my statement about the anems being difficult. I would place them way up the list (BTA included) for most difficult organisms. Although they usually linger a few months before dying. The ones being kept in low light need to be fed heavily and their water quality has got to be carefully moitored. Calfo does this for his breeding program, but I would not recommend this method to anyone without them first viewing or reading his material about his full method.

The feeding is really the kicker with a little tank like this. Nitrates quickly become deleterious for anemones. unless you have a magic filtration system, a 12 gal tank is going to quickly reach deadly levels.

Not saying its impossible, just not probable.

[Peter Eichler]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10566813#post10566813 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RichConley
I disagree with this. ABout 90% of the stuff we keep in this hobby (pretty much everythign but zoos) is less hardy and less forgiving than a BTA. There is very little that will kill one.

FWIW, most of the BTA propogation being done, is being done under normal output shoplights.



A long tentacle plate much hardier than a BTA? Are you serious?


The one problem with keeping a BTA in a tank like this is you wont be able to keep much else, because theres just not enough space to keep it from stinging things.

I still say BTAs while hardy aren't nearly as hardy is you make them out to be. However, I agree about the LT plate, not a hardy coral by any means IMO.

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10566910#post10566910 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by airinhere


The feeding is really the kicker with a little tank like this. Nitrates quickly become deleterious for anemones. unless you have a magic filtration system, a 12 gal tank is going to quickly reach deadly levels.


No, they dont. Anemones feed on nitrates. Higher nitrate levels just mean they grow faster.

[Xirxes23]

Any clown hosting anemone will fill a 12 in a year, if kept right, and an eclipse 12 is no way to go about keeping a reeftank.

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10567339#post10567339 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Xirxes23
[B]Any clown hosting anemone will fill a 12 in a year,/B]

Yeah, but with a BTA, when that happens, you just cut it in half.

[Der_Iron_Chef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10566813#post10566813 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RichConley
ABout 90% of the stuff we keep in this hobby (pretty much everythign but zoos) is less hardy and less forgiving than a BTA. There is very little that will kill one.

My cinnamon clown did a pretty good number on my RBTA :)

[LionfishFinatic]

not to mention if the nem dies for any reason your tank will crash soooo bad you won't even know what happened. Stay away from the nems for now until you get a bigger reef.

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10567508#post10567508 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by LionfishFinatic
not to mention if the nem dies for any reason your tank will crash soooo bad you won't even know what happened. Stay away from the nems for now until you get a bigger reef.


But thats true with any sort of fleshy coral.

[tripinpn01]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10567350#post10567350 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RichConley
Yeah, but with a BTA, when that happens, you just cut it in half.

Why would you even want to worry about this? why not just do it the right way and get a tank that is large enough. OR work with the equipment you got and not over do it (like an anemone).

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10567571#post10567571 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tripinpn01
Why would you even want to worry about this? why not just do it the right way and get a tank that is large enough. OR work with the equipment you got and not over do it (like an anemone).


You could ask that same question about probably 90% of the tanks on this board.



I've never seen a BTA that was bigger than about 10" across, and if it gets that big, you just propogate it.


Cutting them inhalf isnt a big deal.

[airinhere]

Rich, I am interested to see where your coming up with this info about nitates. I am under the impression that anems are very sensitive to high nitrate levels. Even more so than most corals. I got this info from a guest speaker at the M.A.R.S. meeting about three months ago. The speakers topic was nitrates. Not saying you are wrong, and I didnt agree with everything the speaker said, but the part about anems seemed dead on.

As for propping anems. You are kidding right? a 12 gal tank and someone is going to prop a 10 inch anem in it? I agree propping them under proper conditions is just business as usual, but again, without someone understanding the complete setup that Calfo (or anyone else) is using to prop BTA, that is not a realistic proposal.

And I agree the eclipse probably isnt the best choice for a reef tank either.

[Peter Eichler]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10567601#post10567601 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RichConley
You could ask that same question about probably 90% of the tanks on this board.



I've never seen a BTA that was bigger than about 10" across, and if it gets that big, you just propogate it.


Cutting them inhalf isnt a big deal.

That's fine and all but this is not something you should be doing in a small display tank. Especially one that will have questionable water quality like an Eclipse 12. You make it sound so simple, and on the surface it is. But when it comes down to it you should have a dedicated tank/system if you want to propagate anemones.

[smcnally]

My old Rose BTA...Much bigger than 10" across (closer to about 14-16)
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b68/stevesreef/01-15-06/DSC01739.jpg

IMO, the tank is way too small for a BTA unless it is the ONLY thing in the tank.

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10567717#post10567717 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by airinhere
Rich, I am interested to see where your coming up with this info about nitates. I am under the impression that anems are very sensitive to high nitrate levels. Even more so than most corals. I got this info from a guest speaker at the M.A.R.S. meeting about three months ago. The speakers topic was nitrates. Not saying you are wrong, and I didnt agree with everything the speaker said, but the part about anems seemed dead on.


There was just a thread about this. It is commonly available knowledge that all Actinaria (anemones, mushrooms, etc) are able to absorb nitrogen and phosphate directly from the water, and do so for food.


FWIW, I haven't found a single salt water organism that is bothered by nitrates. Theyre totally irrellevant. Many of us SPS keepers actually dose nitrates. NitrItes aren't even toxic in saltwater either. Ammonia and phosphate are what you need to worry about.

as for propping anems. You are kidding right? a 12 gal tank and someone is going to prop a 10 inch anem in it? I agree propping them under proper conditions is just business as usual, but again, without someone understanding the complete setup that Calfo (or anyone else) is using to prop BTA, that is not a realistic proposal.

Worked fine in my 10g.



IMO, if he can't keep a BTA, he can't keep SPS, or LPS for that matter. I would advise you to check out nanoreef.com. The people there aren't so locked into the dogma that reef tanks need to be huge.

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10567864#post10567864 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by smcnally

IMO, the tank is way too small for a BTA unless it is the ONLY thing in the tank.
Steve, I did say it would need to be the only think in the tank.

[airinhere]

Well, I know that in nutrient starved tanks (like what SPS guys go for) some people have started dosing nitrates, and yes in small amounts, many organisms use the nitrate as an energy source.

But in heavy concentrations the same nitrates become very dangerous. That is why we put live rock into our tanks in the first place isnt it? To act as a biological filter that removes the nitrate left behind from when ammonia and nitrite is broken down.

I always thought it was common knowlege that nitrates were a major health risk in our tanks. anems are on the lower end of the scale of tolerance for them. Coral is a close second and then inverts and finally fish.

And you propped a large BTA in a 10 gal tank? did anything else survive? The slime should have smothered everything else in the tank.

And he can keep a BTA, but he should have a practical tank setup for it that could keep it healthy and not barely alive. And no, he probably couldnt keep any SPS in that tank either. LPS, maybe. But very limited on what types, Softies, shrooms or zoanthids would be much more practical.

[HBtank]

I think an anenome and clown only tank would be cool, and would actually be my personal preference. From my perspective anenomes are not very good tankmates....

I also do not see why a BTA could not be kept in a 12g tank with that lighting.

I also think a lot of people are jumping to conclusions about this inquiry.

Who is to say the TS is, or is not planning in regards to husbandry... Maybe he has access to NSW and will be doing 10% WC every day???

[TriniStylez]

Be careful with NSW. Make sure it has been filtered properly. I get NSW from a very large local aquarium that sells it. It is filtered in many stages and is the same stuff they use in their display tanks. But I once bought NSW from a local company (I live right on the pacific ocean) and I dont think it was filtered at all. Anyways, it was terrible water. It was so high in nutrients, it was crazy! Just a heads up...

[SDhky]

Sooooo...um....which anemone would you recommend for 32 watts in the 12 gallon? I only want to keep it for a year, max

[SDhky]

Sooooo...um....which anemone would you recommend for 32 watts in the 12 gallon? I only want to keep it for a year, max. my friend had a LTA in a 10 gallon with HOB power filter and bak pak skimmer that didnt do anything

[kathainbowen]

....we're all getting into very random side conversations that are all very interesting, and I'd love to chat further on them.... however, I'm starting to feel like we're starting to ignore the original poster.

SDhky, I'm a big, big fan of... REALLY, super, incredibly, uber small tanks. So, I understand you on the urge to put big things in small tanks. It's mighty tempting. But, smaller tanks do tend to fluctuate harder with water quality than larger tanks. Now, I'm not going to argue the nitrates issue that other people have been discussing, but I would like to point out that salinity can take some pretty severe swings on hot days from evaporation in smaller tanks. While other people have pointed out the nitrates and other pollutants issues, I just wanted to give a quick reminder or something which you probably are already aware of with nano tanks.

Still, that's not truly the reason I would hesitate putting an anemone in a nano to pico sized tank. I would hesitate due to the growth size of the anemones and my love of corals. Anemones have a tendency to sting, damage, and kill corals. The larger the anemone gets, the easier it is for it to destroy nearby corals, especially more delicate specimens. So, if you like corals as much as I do, I wouldn't really recommend it.

If it is a question of hosting, there are several types of corals with clownfish will accept as substitute hosts in place of an anemone. Euphyllia (torch coral, hammer, frogspawn, grape, etc) are commonly adopted by clownfish as their hosts. Leathers (especially toadstool leathers with long polyps) are also good substitutes, but some clownfish will also go for Xenia species, mushrooms, Heliofungia (long polyped plate corals), large feather dusters, fake plants, and even clam mantles for their hosts. Some species of clowns are very easy to get to accept a host, even if it's not truly an anemone. However, I must also point out that tank-raised clownfish are less likely to exhibit the behavior of using an anemone or anything similar as a would-be host. So, if this is your end goal, consider all aspects to anemones.

However, if anemones are still the goal, might I recommend the condylactis, the green (or common) bubble tip, or the long-tentacle. These three are all quite hardy anemones. The condylactis is known for being low-medium light tolerant so long as it is regularly fed, but the condylactis anemone rarely hosts fish. When it does host, it takes a long, long time. The green (or common) bubble tip anemone, however, is one of the most common anemones used for its hosting of fish. It has a unique look, especially when the polyps swell, and, since they split so well, you can usually find some in local reef clubs for a steal of a price. The long tentacle is also pretty hardy, and hosts well. However, like I said before, all of these anemones will sting and harm corals. That, and don't forget about feeding it meaty bits of food (like small pieces of fish, mysis, squid, or krill).

Consider your options carefully before you commit to an anemone!

airinhere, to clarify, plate corals, neither Heliofungia or Fungia species, are not known for being extremely hardy. They are known for being easily beaten during shipping and ripping by inverts or torrential current. In addition to that, once damaged, the health of plate corals quickly goes into decline, and many reefers have noted that it can be difficult to bring them back to peak condition. All things considered, this makes plate corals rank around mid-grade of coral hardiness. As in, they're no where near as easy as leathers or mushrooms, but they're still no where near as hard as carnation coral.

This means, I would take it as a great sign that plate corals do well for you! It means you know your stuff about taking care of them, or you keep a well set up tank! Kudos!

[Musho3210]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10568604#post10568604 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SDhky
Sooooo...um....which anemone would you recommend for 32 watts in the 12 gallon? I only want to keep it for a year, max. my friend had a LTA in a 10 gallon with HOB power filter and bak pak skimmer that didnt do anything


WHAT? dont get one then....

Thats just as bad as saying im only going to be in the hobby for a year, then im going to quite, if only for a year dont even do the hobby. And anemone keeping can be considered a hobby.

[SDhky]

WHAT? dont get one then....

THat was a terrible analysis. I can give it away after a year. Hobbies occupy time, short or long.

[Peter Eichler]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10568932#post10568932 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Musho3210
WHAT? dont get one then....

Thats just as bad as saying im only going to be in the hobby for a year, then im going to quite, if only for a year dont even do the hobby. And anemone keeping can be considered a hobby.

Just take a look back at his posts and you'll see the the short term mentality reigns supreme with SDhky. FYI, he doesn't really have a 180 gal. tank (it's a 50 gal.), I think he just put it there so people would stop telling him about the problems he could encounter when he asks questions and doesn't get the responses he had hoped for. He's doing the same thing with this anemone issue, trying to get someone to help justify placing an animal in far less than ideal conditions. SD, before you get all defensive and tell me I'm judging you, I'm not. If you want to put a Clown Trigger in a 50 gallon, great, if you want to put a Porcupine Puffer and Tang in that same tank, be my guest, the same goes for an anemone in an Eclipse 12. But stop fishing for the answers you want and getting all upset when you don't get them.

Sorry to be so harsh but this is the same mentality that has bothered me for years. It's like the guy that came into the LFS I used to manage and wants to add the little Panther grouper to his 29 gal tank. I wouldn't sell one to him so the guy goes to another fish store and buys it. Then a year later wants me to give him store credit for it because it ate all his small fish and it too big.

Lastly, if you think people trying to give sound advice and help you do things better equates to "annoying people in other peoples business" stop wasting other peoples time and asking for advice on an open forum.

[SDhky]

If you went through my friggin posts I guess you missed the one where I am trying to upgrade to a 180 pretty soon, and was wondering how much time I have with the clown trigger and porcupine puffer before I put them in there. I dont like you. You are annoying.

[airinhere]

SDhky, Peter is right, he is just grizzled and tires of repeating the same thing over and over to new anemone keepers. I got similar responses before for some of my own actions so dont get too bent over all this. But please do like I did and take the debate to heart and make sure you are providing your anem a good home. Not just "do what we all say to do", but learn and form your own highly opinionated results. Then you can be as fun to listen to as all of the rest of us.

Anemones are living creatures and deserve the same concern you would give a cat or a dog. They also require the same level of commitment. Perhaps more. Anemones do not age, and as such they can easily outlive you or me. So it is not fair to satisfy a passing facination with them by putting them in inadequate aquaria.

But they are for sale, I am not a tree-hugger and you can do with them as you see fit. If you want to try your hand at keeping one, you should bear in mind the topics that were brought up here. Anemones are easily the most facinating critters I keep in my own tanks and I understand anyone else wanting to keep them as well. But dont be mislead into thinking they are easy to take care of even for experienced reefkeepers.

Just so you know, a tank that is set up for a year isn't really even considered mature yet. My QT is over a year old at this point.

Kathainbowen, Thanks, I think most of the problems people have with plate coral stem from not feeding them enough. I dont do anything special for them, but feed lots and lots of food.

[tripinpn01]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10569133#post10569133 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SDhky
If you went through my friggin posts I guess you missed the one where I am trying to upgrade to a 180 pretty soon, and was wondering how much time I have with the clown trigger and porcupine puffer before I put them in there. I dont like you. You are annoying.

you don't take any criticisms or negative comments very well, although you should take them because it is the truth. i agree, we should stop saying" "don't get it" because he seems to be already set on it. its true that it is a learning experience, but if the information is already being layed out to you and your still not listening all i have to say is good luck! you're wasting your own time and more importantly, everyone else's time.

[kathainbowen]

After working in an LFS, I've discovered that people don't generally listen to "No." Just try to tell die-hard believers that fish grow to the size of their tank or that your really shouldn't mix rift lake cichlids with south american cichlids. It works far better when you discuss the cons to it (such as how smaller tanks give to larger fluctuations in temperature and water composition compared to larger tanks, or how anemones sting and destroy corals, you get the point).

However, I will admit it's hard to resist the urge sometimes to fall back into old habits of just saying "No."

[Der_Iron_Chef]

Yada yada yada.

General consensus, from a host of experienced reefers, is to skip on the anemone.

Take it or leave it!!

[token]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10567958#post10567958 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by airinhere
I always thought it was common knowlege that nitrates were a major health risk in our tanks. Not to further derail this discussion, but I think that widely spread rumor is, at least in part, false.

While many of our critters can use Nitrogen and Phosphate directly through osmosis, the most opportunistic of them, cyanobacteria and certain algae, are quicker to the trough than others. In a sense, it is the nitrate that is the problem but the deeper truth is that its the ability of much more competitive species to proliferate that poses the real threat.

With regards to how this affects our OP's situation, the 12g has less optimal equipment available to it that makes the maintenance of harder-to-keep species sub-optimal inhabitants for the nano. If skimmers, and other equipment, were as good for the under 55g set as they are for the 55g+ set, this might be a less contentious conversation.

At the end of the day, it is all about the husbandry, right?

[Peter Eichler]

I don't think I've ever been described as "grizzled" before :lol:

[BrianD]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10569133#post10569133 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SDhky
If you went through my friggin posts I guess you missed the one where I am trying to upgrade to a 180 pretty soon, and was wondering how much time I have with the clown trigger and porcupine puffer before I put them in there. I dont like you. You are annoying.

No more feeding the troll. Closed.