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PhantomLoneWolf
08/16/2007, 06:37 AM
I want to get suggestions on water flow for a standard 180gal AGA. I will have 1800gph from the sump and 1800gph from a closed loop. The tank is visable from three sides (both long and one short end). I don't want anything obstructing the vision on the three sides, ie: on the glass. So, everything needs to come in from the top (pumbing in canopy). I am also using 2 - Seio 1500's on the non-visable end where the overflow and exit pumping is at. I have never done this before and would like some advice and suggestions on flow and what to use in the tank to get it. Thanks

PhantomLoneWolf
08/17/2007, 06:13 AM
Still wanting advice - can you help?

Wryknow
08/17/2007, 01:39 PM
Well, 1800 gph through the sump is probably more than you want. (Are you taking into account head loss btw?) A good rule of thumb is 3-5 times total tank volume through the sump per hour. At 1800 gph you might have problems with drainage, noise, and micro-bubbles. It can be managed with proper planning, but why would you want to try? I would recommend a nice, simple in-sump return pump like the E-heim 1262/MAG 12 or something similar.

For the closed loop you can add quite a bit of flow withpout any problems. I would recommend that you check out oceansmotion.com and take a look at the OM 4-way as a nice way to provide alternating current in a closed loop set-up. Pair a 4-way with a sequence dart and I don't think that you're going to need additional power heads in the tank.

RocketEngineer
08/17/2007, 05:56 PM
Have you considered using penductors and a pressure rated pump on either the close loop or sump returns? These require high pressure but don't require a huge flow to work.

http://www.kthsales.com/website/Misc/hello_salt_water_enthusiasts.htm

Check out this web site and good luck.

mflamb
08/19/2007, 06:41 AM
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p117/mflamb/DSC00040.jpg
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p117/mflamb/DSC00041.jpg
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p117/mflamb/DSC00046.jpg
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p117/mflamb/DSC00100.jpg

Three Dart pumps. One for sump return, two with OM4ways for closed loops, for a total of 20 returns to the tank.

PhantomLoneWolf
08/19/2007, 07:34 AM
That is insane!!! I want to your "red house" www. and scrolled through the pages and looked at pictures. That is an amazing project. I have tons of questions. Can I pm or email you with questions from time to time? Do you have this tank up and running yet? Thanks for the inspiration.

PhantomLoneWolf
08/23/2007, 06:32 AM
^

NewSchool04
08/24/2007, 11:33 PM
I use a Mag 12 as a return from my 40 gallon breeder sump. Great pump for this sized tank, nice flow coming out and not too much that it over powers the overflow creating noise. '

I've modded two Tunze 6025's that run on two Sea Swirls in the middle of the tank. These really create great flow for the middle 4' of the tank. I also have a SEIO 1100 and 1500 in the two corners. This helps but doesn't really help in the corners. I'm planning on getting two more Sea Swirls and hooking up two more modded 6025's for the corners. That should solve all problems w/ only using 32W for pumps.
The great thing about the 6025's on the Swirls, you can hardly see them and they are totally adjustable.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y222/NewSchool04/CIMG4457.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y222/NewSchool04/CIMG4460.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y222/NewSchool04/CIMG4462.jpg

You can see the two 6025's on the top right, back and forth, back and forth pumping 1000+ gallons with a nice wide flow.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y222/NewSchool04/CIMG4865.jpg

PhantomLoneWolf
08/25/2007, 08:15 AM
Interesting!! So, if I understand this correctly, you don't have any water flow coming thru the Sea Swirl, just using it to oscillate your Tunze 6025's. That would give great water movement if you're not using a closed loop or sump pump. Great idea!! Thanks.

PhantomLoneWolf
08/25/2007, 08:29 AM
Newschool04
It is interesting to me that you have the same size of tank, using the same lighting 400W MH with Reeflex bulbs and lumenarc reflectors, just like I am wanting to set up. Couple of questions. What is your gph waterflow? Have you tried the 12K bulbs? Does the lumenarc mini's distribute light in your tank well? How many do you have?

I am in the process of purchasing all the "stuff" and building the cabinet and canopy for mine. It is all sitting in the garage at present. I hope to have it in the house and starting to set up by mid-September. I am planning to build my own lumenarc type reflectors. I am putting 3-400watt SE MH bulbs using PFO HQI ballasts. Also adding 4-36in T-5's (Actinic+ bulbs). Will have a 55 gallon sump with refug - with a return pump of 1900gph. Will have a closed loop @ 1200gph and two Seio 1500's (1500gph each and alternating on/off). I just purchased a OM4 and revolutions yesterday used. I want 5000+ gph water movement. Anyway - that is my work in progess at the present time.

NewSchool04
08/25/2007, 09:06 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10630915#post10630915 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by PhantomLoneWolf
Interesting!! So, if I understand this correctly, you don't have any water flow coming thru the Sea Swirl, just using it to oscillate your Tunze 6025's. That would give great water movement if you're not using a closed loop or sump pump. Great idea!! Thanks.

I have a Mag12 returning water from my sump, the Tunze 6025's are just to make random flow throughout the tank. You are correct, the Sea Swirls are not connected to the returns.

NewSchool04
08/25/2007, 09:23 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10630977#post10630977 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by PhantomLoneWolf
Newschool04
It is interesting to me that you have the same size of tank, using the same lighting 400W MH with Reeflex bulbs and lumenarc reflectors, just like I am wanting to set up. Couple of questions. What is your gph waterflow? Have you tried the 12K bulbs? Does the lumenarc mini's distribute light in your tank well? How many do you have?

I am in the process of purchasing all the "stuff" and building the cabinet and canopy for mine. It is all sitting in the garage at present. I hope to have it in the house and starting to set up by mid-September. I am planning to build my own lumenarc type reflectors. I am putting 3-400watt SE MH bulbs using PFO HQI ballasts. Also adding 4-36in T-5's (Actinic+ bulbs). Will have a 55 gallon sump with refug - with a return pump of 1900gph. Will have a closed loop @ 1200gph and two Seio 1500's (1500gph each and alternating on/off). I just purchased a OM4 and revolutions yesterday used. I want 5000+ gph water movement. Anyway - that is my work in progess at the present time.

I'm not sure what my gph water flow is. Do you just add up everything? If so 5700 gph around I think and I need more. The corners are tough and it's tough to get water flow into them with the overflows a little under a foot into the tank. I wish I had corner overflows!

I haven't tried the 12K Reeflux but I have seen them and they are awesome. I wish I had went that route 4 months ago! Nearly identical PAR with a 400W Coralvue E ballast so you don't lose anything for a more blue look. I highly recommend them.
The lumenarc mini's are unbelievable, best reflector I have ever seen. They really spread the light so it looks uniform, not brighter under the bulb, just bright all over.

If I had the money, I would just by two Vortech's with a controller. I think those with the return only would be plenty of flow in every area of the tank. No Seio's, no Tunze's needed.

Good luck with your project, sounds like you have a fun time ahead!

PhantomLoneWolf
08/25/2007, 10:06 AM
Thanks for the tip about the corners. I will try to do something about that on mine. I think the way I am going to place the revolutions will take care of that, but I will need to think it through and make sure the corners are covered well. I do want a couple of place with less water movement for a couple of corals I have that don't like heavy current. You say you have approx. 5700gph, that would seem to be plenty. Is it just the corners that are a problem? Any words of wisdom you can give will be greatly appreciated, as I am getting mine planned out and want to do it right the first time!! Know what I mean? My whole reef tank experience has been..."I wish I would have done it this way!" Thanks again.

NewSchool04
08/25/2007, 10:37 AM
If you haven't drilled yet for your closed loop, I'd scrap that plan and buy a couple of Vortechs and be done with it. No big pumps draining electric, no constantly moving and adjusting for decent flow, no adding extra pumps to make up in certain areas, no dealing with sand or bits getting stuck in the 4way, etc.
With the cost of the 4way, plumbing, quick disconnects, ball valves, pump to drive the 4 way, bulkheads and the time (hours and hours) of plumbing and leak testing, I think you'd find that the two different options are around the same price.
Difference is you take the Vortech out of the box, stick it to the side of the tank and whallah, instant huge alternating flow with great spread. Perfect for a reef.

danskim
08/25/2007, 10:45 AM
I agree with NewSchool04 especially if you are averse to drilling holes or paying someone to drill the holes.
I did a closed loop on my current system (150g), and I really like it with the OM. However, there is more that could go wrong because there are so many bulkheads and pvc connections. There is also the risk of messing up during drilling or something.
For my new 300g, I'm going with a Tunze setup just for ease. I don't really mind the look of the powerheads... there will only be 3 in mine.
But yeah the Vortechs are another good option.

PhantomLoneWolf
08/25/2007, 10:55 AM
Great ideas!! My 180 is going to be visible on three sides and I don't want anything hanging on the glass on those three sides. Thus, all the plumbing is going to be in the canopy and drop down to the water. The only exception is on the forth side (end side) will have the overflow and drilled for bulkheads. I agree with the Vortech idea, but I don't think it will work for what I want - no powerheads on the glass.