Finnex Titanium Heater Owners BEWARE!!!

[The Saltwater Kid]

I received one of these heaters last Christmas, the model with the digital thermostat...these were supposed to be the "new and improved" models and the issues with the previous batch Finnex resolved...yeah right! My wife and I are on vacation in Canada and we just got a call yesterday from our friend who is tank-sitting for us and the d@mn thing stuck on and raised the tank temperature to 97.8 degrees killing all of our corals, fish and inverts :( . There was nothing my friend could have done as he said everything was fine when he fed the fish the previous night and when he went over to check on the tank the next evening he found the disaster. He is a knowledgable fellow reefer so i trust his judgment when he says it's a total loss. I wish there was a way I could hold Finnex accountable but I'm sure they've covered their sorry behinds with some fancy legal wording which SUCKS as it's THEIR product that has FAILED in less then a year and cost us hundreds of dollars in corals, fish and inverts :furious: !!!

[RichConley]

This is why I dont run heaters in the summer.

[stemonia]

That really sucks! Sorry to hear about your loss. In the future I would spend the money on a two stage controller. You can always use the controller as a safety net to shut the heater or chiller off in the event their built in controllers get stuck. I don't trust any chiller or heater as there is always a risk they will stick on a freeze or cook your tank.

[SitBackAndWatch]

i don't run a heater in the summer either. my tank stays a constant 78-81 through out the week. sorry for your loss....

[pjf]

There is a review of the Finnex HMT-300 "Ultra Compact Electronic Heater" in the review section of Reef Central. Here is a quote:

"I tested the Finnex HMT-300 in my sump with two other heaters. The water temperature was evenly distributed with a pump and monitored with a laboratory grade liquid thermometer. The HMT-300 was not calibrated accurately at the factory. With a set temperature of 80 degrees, the red LED indicates the heater switching off and on between 75.6 and 77.8 degrees. No method was provided to end users to calibrate the controller. Disturbing is the fact that the controller appears to be unstable. When the water temperature is steadily rising, the heater begins to switch off at 75.6 degrees. It continues to switch on and off 10 more times until finally turning off for good at 77.8 degrees. Similar behavior is observed when the temperature is steadily dropping. The Finnex HMT-300 wins points for its simple design, its titanium heating element, and its large temperature dial and LEDs. Unfortunately, it has some negatives. There is a 2 to 4 degree deviation from set point, no calibration adjustment, and a very unstable controller switching behavior during periods of steadily rising or dropping temperatures."

[markglad]

I have never had the need for a heater, plenty of fans…in the winter I just keep an eye and don’t use the fans a much, no problems with temperature swings everything stays pretty consistent.

[Paulairduck]

I have always ran my heaters on Ranco controllers, no Issues.

Can I also say " That is a bad dream"!!, I have to often.


Sorry to hear about the tank

:eek1:

[The Saltwater Kid]

Does anybody know if there is any legal action that could be taken against Finnex since it was their product that failed when it was less then a year old and it killed so many hundreds of dollars of livestock?

[The Saltwater Kid]

bump

[skhle]

Buyers beware of All products "Made in China" as Company or Design Company have there products make, wants cheaper costs to make more profits on the other hand, manufactories cut corner to make more money quality control is just for couple first loads after that, too bad end users that what is happening with toys now!!!!!!!!!

[reefer1024]

Saltwater kid that sux, Think of this as a chance to start fresh. This is a good time to make changes and learn from past mistakes. I'm sure your new reef will be even better then the one you lost.

"We have the technology. We can rebuild him." (sorry i watch to much tv)

If you have a large tank you can minimize the affects of a heater getting stuck on by having multiple small heaters instead of 1 large heater.

[miatawnt2b]

+1 Ranco controller. It's really a must. It's unbelievable to me that so many don't protect their tanks from failure due to a faulty bi-metal thermostat. The Ranco is an industrial grade controller and is under $100.

Legal recourse? Uh Huh.

-J

[luv951]

You know that little folded up piece of thin paper with type on it thats so small you need a magnifying glass to read it?

It comes in every piece of cheap electronic gizmo sold in America.

On that piece of paper is a statement that goes:

"Under no conditions shall finnex' liability extend beyond the replacement value of the product"

Or something similar.....sorry, but you are probably screwed. Lawyers make the world such a great place, don't they?

no offense to any lawyers ; )

[Pacific Reefs]

I'm sorry to hear about your loss. Unfortunately heaters usually don't show signs before they fail. I had one lock on but luckily I caught it. I bit the bullet to get the Ranco controller. It's definitely worth it for those that need to run a heater. I wish you could go after them to recover your loss.

[Wryknow]

You can absolutely file a claim in your local small claims court (there is a cap on damages in small cliams but it's like $2500 or something that varies by state.) It probably only costs like $10 to file and you may even be able to fill out all of the paperwork on-line.

Corporate denials of responsibility printed on product packaging is primarily intended to prevent you from pursuing the case in court. Saying that you're not responsible for something doesn't make it so. A defective product that causes damage is still a defective product and the manufacturer can absolutely be held liable for it.

I would argue that the technology to have a heater never fail in the "on" position is commercially available and many of their competitors (Marineland for example) use this technology for just this reason. Also, I doubt that Finnex warned you that their product could, with normal use, reasonably be expected to kill everything in your tank after the warranty has expired. If the judge agrees with you that they were negligent then he will most likely award you the money. If not, you're out $10 and a little bit of time. There's even a very good chance that they'll just settle in order to avoid having to send a lawyer to represent them in court.

Anyway, it's worth checking out. I think that you will find that small claims court is surprisingly easy to use though.

[The Saltwater Kid]

Thanks Wryknow! I emailed Finnex and this is what they said:

"We are sorry to hear the incident. Our heaters carry a 6 month limited
warranty against manufacture defect. However, we are sorry to advise you
that our warranty is limited to repair or replacement of the product. The
warranty does not cover livestock or consequential damages.

To prevent overheating situation, we can provide you a replacement heater
(HMT-150) and an additional temperature control (HC-0800U) to double control
the heating temperature. Please let us have your address, so we can have the
heater and control delivered to you.

In the mean time, please return the defect heater to us at the following
address:

JSK Merchandising, Inc.
5324 East Ave.
Countryside, IL 60525

Ken"

Obviously if I accept this offer I'm pretty much screwed. I believe I will pursue this in small claims court. For $10 what have I got to lose? I have pictures of what my tank looked like before and what it looks like now after everything has been fried. I also have the dead pieces of coral and inverts I can take pictures of.

[ccorpse27]

Don't accept a replacement - take them to court. I'd feel better spending a small amount for court fees to know that you're causing JSK Merchandising some legal grief. You might win too, you never know. If you have pics of your critters before and after, that may help your case.

[Fishbulb2]

Good luck and let us know how this turns out. It would probably help your case if you could show that others have also had this problem and that this is not an isolated incidence.

[The Saltwater Kid]

If anybody else wants to add their names to a list of Finnex Titanium heater malfunctions I would gladly welcome their support!!!

[dukecola]

I would take their generous offer. Your heater was out of warranty and even if it was under warranty, they are legally limited to the warranty damages only, not your livestock. You are wasting your time in small claims court.

[allykahn]

I had a similar situation, except my heater would not turn on after the warranty period expired. I contacted Finnex and the offered to replace the controller for about half of the cost. I decided to go with the didgial controller instead. Needless to say, the heating element soon went. SO now I have a controller without a heating element.

I aslo do not use a heater in the summer.

[BeanAnimal]

The lesson to be learned here is that you need to run a reliable temperature controller and a properly setup GFCI. ALL hobby heaters are pure junk.

No matter what size heater you have, a RANCO or similar controller is a MUST HAVE. It is one of the most important pieces of equipment you can purchase.

[The Saltwater Kid]

I now realize that...unfortunately :-(. They should definitely make more reliable hobby heaters, the technology HAS to be there to use. I am still going to file a claim with Small Claims Court if it only costs me $10 and see how far I'll get.

[Wryknow]

SWK - You are absolutely correct. They are basically offering you a settlement (an new heater and controller) to make you go away. By pursuing the case you are giving up the settlement offer and might get bupkiss instead, and you need to make that decision on your own.

Just take a few minutes to read up on it (I'm sure your state has a website compet with FAQ) and you should do OK. Let us know how it goes.

Just remember when you present your arguement, this is not a warranty issue, the warranty is not relevant to the case. You're going to be trying to convince the judge that they were NEGLIGENT in the manufacture of this product. My argument would go somehting like this:

When they sold you the aquarium heater you bought it trusting that the product was fit for that purpose (i.e. safe to use in your aquarium.) Instead, they sold you an aquarium heater that was either incorrectly manufactured (in which case they are liable) or had a known technical flaw (in which case they are liable) that resulted in the death of your livestock that are worth $XXXX. They are going to argue that they warned you about potential risks in the product packaging and your response will be along the lines that they failed to provide sufficient warning so that a REASONABLE PERSON would expect that the use of this product would result in the death of his aquarium livestock only X months after purchase. You purchased a heater that was designed for aquarium use and it was not fit for that use.

Bottom line is that the outcome will depend a bit on weather or not you have a coherent arquement and how sympathetic the judge is to your case. Most judges (especially ellected ones) are going to give you every benefit of the doubt and probably even help you out with procedure. Small claims courts exist to help ordinary citizens get fair treatment under the law and they are usually biased in favor of the local ciizen verses the corporation (which is why companies hate them.) You might get nothing, you might get the cost of a new heater (which you were already offered,) and you might get the maximum award from the court. There's also a very real chance that Finnex won't even bother to send an attorney, in which case you will win by default.

[Wryknow]

BTW - I am NOT a lawyer and I am not giving you expert legal advice. I am just a concerned citizen (who took too many business law classes in college) who is giving you free advice on an issue that I am not an expert on.

[The Saltwater Kid]

Thanks Wryknow...unfortunately my local small claims court said there's not much I can do since it's an out of state company, a verdict could be easy to get but JSK could pretty much thumb their noses at that since they reside outside my small claims courts jurisdiction :-(. They suggested contacting the Illinois Small Claims Court. Does anybody know the phone number to the small claims court that has jurisdiction over Countryside, Illinois???

[tpdpercula]

I understand what your going through somewhat. I did not lose all my live stock but have spent $100s of dollars on their stupid thermostats. And it is because they sell a defective product that is not reliable and should not be sold for use in aquariums. Please keep us posted on your legal status. The Marine Hobby is not cheap to begin with and when COMPANYS take advantage of customers/hobbist we all must stand up and give them the same headaches that they give us with regards to crappy products and "Its not our fault" customer service mantality.

[Wryknow]

well, I looked it up and Countryside, IL is in Cook County. Here's their website:

http://198.173.15.31/newsite/?section=DDPage&DDPage=3100

They have a whole separate process for small claims of under $1500 where folks can represent themselves.

I'm not sure where you live so I can't say whether or not you want to travel to Chicago. Collecting the judgement will be easier there since that's where they have fixed assets, bank accounts, etc. Alternatively, you could see if the company has any assets in your state and get the local judgement and try to seize those if they don't pay. There are legal companies that specialize in collection jugdements that work on contingency but they may or may not take your case. You may want to read a book on the subejct. I've never tried suing a corporation outside of the state myself.

[The Saltwater Kid]

Thanks Wryknow! I did finally contact the small claims court of Cook county and the woman i spoke with was a total ***** but she at least gave me some information. To file a claim it will be $129 and then I will need to file a summons and have the Sheriff deliver it to the company which is another $60 and on top of that there WILL be a court date in which I have to appear so that means I'd have to take time off from work, buy a plane ticket from Vermont to Illinois and appear myself...I would likely spend almost half of what i lost in livestock and there would be no garauntee that I would win anything. This is very frustrating and irritating...the only recourse I have left is to file a complaint with the Illinois Attorney Generals Office which is free but probably won't do much for me :-(. The little guy gets screwed again!!!

[Wryknow]

Well, you can include court costs in your claim, but that's still a pain in the butt and probably not worth it for you <sigh>.

[sditch]

Very Sorry to hear about your loss, I would not go beyond what you have done as it may lead to more fustration and loss.

Just look at it as a lessin learned and move on to the new and improved tank :)

[The Saltwater Kid]

Easy to say if you've got the money! Unfortunately this is the second disaster in a little over a year and a half for us...the first being a terrible cyano outbreak at about the 8 month mark for our tank in which i tried everything to get rid of it until I decided to try Chemi-Clean and after following the directions the stuff nuked our tank, killing 90% of our livestock and it took almost 10 months before we got our tank looking even better then it had looked previously and now this damn heater catastrophe happens and we lose it all once again :-(. We want to try one more time but financially we just don't have a lot of money to sink into it this anymore...gonna' have to rely on the good graces and generosity of fellow reefers willing to donate frags to help us restore our tank to it's former glory once again.

[honda2sk]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10579901#post10579901 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by The Saltwater Kid
Does anybody know if there is any legal action that could be taken against Finnex since it was their product that failed when it was less then a year old and it killed so many hundreds of dollars of livestock?

Here is how you sound in other words:
My Maytag refrigerator broke last week. All of milk and eggs went bad. I also had a bottle of Dom Perignon in there as well with a nice freshly caught fish. The warranty should be for 10 years but it broke down in only 5 years! I now want Maytag to not only replace the fridge, but also reimburse me for the eggs, milk, champagne and fish which cost hundreds of dollars!

Good luck with your lawsuit.

[miatawnt2b]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10608563#post10608563 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by honda2sk
Here is how you sound in other words:
My Maytag refrigerator broke last week. All of milk and eggs went bad. I also had a bottle of Dom Perignon in there as well with a nice freshly caught fish. The warranty should be for 10 years but it broke down in only 5 years! I now want Maytag to not only replace the fridge, but also reimburse me for the eggs, milk, champagne and fish which cost hundreds of dollars!

Good luck with your lawsuit.

+1

when will people learn that someone else is not always responsible for ones misfortune. Sure it stinks, but life is a big lesson, not always fair, and sometimes tuition is high.

-J

[Henry Bowman]

Contact the BBB and file a complaint. Watch the message boards for heater questions and relay your experience. I'd do a word document that I could cut and paste from to make it quicker.

Keep up the bad publicity with your experience. Contact the company and tell them that you will persist in communicating your experience to other hobbyists based on your loss. Dont offer to stop if they pay you, I believe that would be illegal.

Bad publicity is more damaging / costly to most companies than any other form of advertising.

When you believe that you have passed the message on to enough folks to keep them from purchasing 2-3K worth of heaters. Drop it !

'bout all you can do.

[sheepdog43]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10590165#post10590165 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by luv951
You know that little folded up piece of thin paper with type on it thats so small you need a magnifying glass to read it?

It comes in every piece of cheap electronic gizmo sold in America.

On that piece of paper is a statement that goes:

"Under no conditions shall finnex' liability extend beyond the replacement value of the product"

Or something similar.....sorry, but you are probably screwed. Lawyers make the world such a great place, don't they?

no offense to any lawyers ; )
If your house burned down, would they be excused due to that clause?

They can put all they want on that little piece of paper. You have not agreed to it.

Besides, you cannot sign way your right to sue. You can sign a paper saying you will not sure, but you still have the right.

The recent judgement against AT&T shows similar. They put in their contract that you could not do a class action suit, only single. This made it more difficult for the little guy to go after ham. A Judge threw it out. You can pretty much sue anyone for anything. You may not get anything out of it, but you can try.

I am not a lawyer, but one look at what goes on in courts can show you you have some recourse.

[Wryknow]

I think that a better analogy would be if you bought a window AC unit for your home and 8 months after you bought it the AC unit short circuited due to a design flaw and burned your house down. How many homeowners would be satisfied if the manufacturer apologized and offered to give them another (identical) AC unit free of charge? Would it make you feel better if their response was 'Yeah, that happens all the time with our product. We're sorry. We warned you by writing in fine print in the instruction booklet that AC units sometimes short circuit. Tell you what, this time, in addition to a free AC unit we will also give you a controller that we really think will prevent out product from burning your house down when it breaks again.' ? I doubt you'd have a problem finding a lawyer who would take the case on contingency.

[Ladipyg]

Sheepdog 43 is totally correct...you cannot sign away your right to sue...companies provide that little disclaimer to make consumers believe there is nothing they can do. That is not true. You need to post on as many forums as you can to find people who have had the same problem as you...if they have receipts for purchases, all the better. Pictures are a real plus. If you can find enough people who have suffered verified losses due to the Finnex heater, the heck with small claims. Go for a class action suit. A nation-wide problem trumps small claims court. There are lawyers that specialize in this. With the crap that is coming out of China lately, killing our dogs, hurting our kids, toothpaste, wheat gluten..the tide is turning on the feelings about imports from China. Make sure all letters sent to Finnex are registered, save all e-mails and responses. Print them out in case your computer crashes. In your letter make sure to let the company know that a fault in the design/manufacturing caused the problem. Do not, under any circumstances get rid of the heater...I'm sure before the law suit can go ahead, there will have to be an examination of the unit.

miatawnt2b...yes, life is not fair..and if the Finnex heater problem suffered by The SW Kid was an isolated problem I'd say, OOPS, but if many of the heaters have problems, it switches from being the individuals fault and becomes a larger problem. Companies gamble, they throw the dice on faulty products and just hope no one gets the wiser, even if they are aware of it. I don't know how old you are but I clearly remember the Ford Motor Company / exploding Pinto fiasco...there were memos sent about the problem among company officials, but the company figured it would not issue a recall and take their chances. Unfortunately, it wasn't the company that took the chance. Company officers weren't driving Pintos, I'm sure. And people died as a result. I think the tuition paid in that case was a little to steep.

Wryknow...I like the points you have made in your post.

[miatawnt2b]

class action???... the only dough to be made in that case goes in the lawyers pockets.

[E.Smith]

Who cares who makes the dough in the case, at least you know the company will have to shell out millions of dollars on lawyer fee's and if the plantiff is awarded the settlement that just means the company will have to spend millions of more dollars. Although it would be nice to have your losses paid for. At least justice will be served. The problem with this whole fiasco is that the product in the grand scheme of things is so cheap, along with the damages to one's ("average") tank that it doesn't warant your time to spend possibly hundreds to thousands of dollars on lawyer fee's to pursue a case. This is were the company just gets to laugh at you, and make some pathetic offer in return knowing that it is unlikely you will pursue the case in court. All the while making millions of dollars off faulty products. The only time they are usually held accountable for there actions is when class action lawsuits are filed.
Your best bet is to just be as loud and vocal as you can describing to other fellow hobbyist's what a poor product they make. After all the consumers are the ones that dictate the market!

[theishkid]

I'm just going to second the thinking twice about finnex. Yesterday, just a month over the 6 month warranty, my controller started freaking out. Luckily it did not raise the temperature in my tank but the controller kept saying the temperature was going up... it went all the way up to 99 degrees. I was freaking out because I was at work all day and hearing the reports... luckily someone was at home and felt the tank water to calm me down because the temp was nowhere near that hot.

[Fishbulb2]

Mostly good points made all around. I agree that this is not worth your time. I also think your best bet is just to warn others, as you have already done, that these heaters suck. Next I would invest in a Ranco. My heaters are off for the summer but I think I will get a Ranco when I turn them back on. The only other thing I would recommend you do is to send an email to the company you bought the heater from. Simply tell them about your experience and how the heater destroyed your tank. Without a tank, you don't have a lot of reason to shop there anymore. A couple stories like this and they may simply stop carrying these heaters. That's a much more efficient way to hurt Finnex and remove many heaters from the market than telling individual consumers one by one. Imagine, if you could convince Marine Depot, Fosters Smith, and That Pet Place not to carry these junk heaters. That would be a lot of lost units for Finnex.
Anyways, thanks for the warning. I'll stick with my Ebo-Jager and add a Ranco this winter. It's one of these things I've put off far too long.
FB

[NexDog]

Yep, the Finnex controllers are terrible. I have 2 500w heaters on the controllers. I've already replaced one one. I just checked teh others. They are both broken. I can turn the heat all the way up and they still don't activate. Excellent product, heh.

[Greymalkin]

Buyers beware of All products "Made in China" as Company or Design Company have there products make, wants cheaper costs to make more profits on the other hand, manufactories cut corner to make more money quality control is just for couple first loads after that, too bad end users that what is happening with toys now!!!!!!!!!

Yeah, you're right in a way. However, I can see more and more products going that "cheaper way". I just bought a Vortech mp40 and sure enough, the power supply is made in China. I guess this is an irreversible trend...

[shifty51008]

Way to bring back a 8 year old thread :D

[MitchSutherland]

Super old thread..

[MitchSutherland]

I will says I was entertained. I thought he was gonna win in small claims court in the end!

[Tigerdragon]

I use finnex htrs but i use the heating tube and use my apex to control it. Even when i used other heaters i used my apex as the main contoller. Ranco is good but yes i suggestba sep contoller either the ranco or the apex much more dependable and safer. Good luck with your case the main benefit to small claims no lawyers are allowed

[shifty51008]

I use finnex htrs but i use the heating tube and use my apex to control it. Even when i used other heaters i used my apex as the main contoller. Ranco is good but yes i suggestba sep contoller either the ranco or the apex much more dependable and safer. Good luck with your case the main benefit to small claims no lawyers are allowed

I also use the finnex titanium heating tube controlled by a ranco. But i have to dissagree with you on the apex being a more reliable controller. The ranco is made only for heating and cooling nothing else. Where as the apex is designed to do so much more so that makes it more prone for things to go wrong. Not saying the apex is bad and not reliable but i would trust something that was designed for a certain feature over something that does multiple things.

[All Seas]

So my jager just blew and was thinking of going titanium controlled with my apex. Just curious if a lot of the finnex users have problems with the tubes themselves buring out or the controller that is used?

[Johnseye]

Over 1 year and no issues with two titanium 300w heaters and Apex.

[EllisJuan]

No problem here with two different systems running an Apex and Finnex Titanium. One of them for 4 years.

[Yogre]

I use 2 Finnex 300W Ti heat tubes, controlled by a Ranco and backstopped by my Apex. The last two I had ran for 5 years with no issues.

I had to replace them recently because I took a dose of stupid pills, drained my sump doing a water change, and fried the tubes when they came on with no water in the sump. My fault, not the heat tubes.

I just replaced the damaged heat tubes with two more Finnex units.

[Settings]

I'm running mine with the apex as the controller! Works perfect.

[Allentown]

I received one of these heaters last Christmas, the model with the digital thermostat...these were supposed to be the "new and improved" models and the issues with the previous batch Finnex resolved...yeah right! My wife and I are on vacation in Canada and we just got a call yesterday from our friend who is tank-sitting for us and the d@mn thing stuck on and raised the tank temperature to 97.8 degrees killing all of our corals, fish and inverts :( . There was nothing my friend could have done as he said everything was fine when he fed the fish the previous night and when he went over to check on the tank the next evening he found the disaster. He is a knowledgable fellow reefer so i trust his judgment when he says it's a total loss. I wish there was a way I could hold Finnex accountable but I'm sure they've covered their sorry behinds with some fancy legal wording which SUCKS as it's THEIR product that has FAILED in less then a year and cost us hundreds of dollars in corals, fish and inverts :furious: !!!

I am not sure how that could happen. If the apex temperature probe cuts the power...its kinda hard for it to stay "stuck on". My titanium finnex doesn't even have a thermostat.

Oh wait, he wasn't using a tank controller.....and It wasn't a titanium model...and he was actually surprised that a 10 cent thermostat actually went bad (which should not be a surprise to anyone) and this is an 8 year old post.

whelp....that's my fill of stupidity for the night.