Difficulty dialing in BM200

[Canarygirl]

Hello Greg,

You have helped me in the past including sending me the gate valve assembly. Thank you very much for that.

I have been running the BM200 since February and I feel like it is still not dialed in correctly. I am either filling the collection cup in 24 hours with a "weak green tea" skinmate, or if I dial down the gate valve a bit then it seems to take 3 days to get any skinmate at all (and it will only be ~1.5"). In short it seems like it's either too wet or nothing.

I've seen the photos of the BM250 at BarrierReef and the dark/wet skinmate and I have NEVER achieved that kind of skinmate. Is there something wrong with my skimmer or setup that is preventing me from achieving this?

I have 144 net gallon system, medium stocked and fairly heavily fed.

Thanks for any help you can give.

[Wryknow]

It sounds to me like there's just not enough protein in the water for it to pull out. Just my $.02, but I would try really increasing your feeding for a couple of days and see what happens. I have the same issue with my 250 sometimes, it's just too much skimmer for the tank.

[Reef Sponger]

In going through all the old threads, I've seen some great collection of skimmate on the BM200 when the air is controlled by an air valve. It seems if the air is dialed down just a little bit. Just installing the air valve is a controlled restriction on the air, and you will be much finer bubbles, giving you a better foamhead.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1127198
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=9919643#post9919643

[Canarygirl]

I think I will give this a try

[klam114]

CG, do you have photos of how your skimmer is setup now so we can get an idea of what the foam production looks like?

[Napervegas]

Is it a new skimmer, it took my bm200 a couple weeks to get past the weak tea skimmate. After that its been nothing but greatness.

[Canarygirl]

I've been messing with mine for 6 months. I'm happy to take a picture of it but it will be just a 'snapshot' at that moment. For example, 1 hour after feeding the bubble break line will be below the bottom of the tube; this is a reduction from the mid-tube break line that I will have tried to set it at. I think, "fine...this is normal since I just fed the tank." Then I go to bed, and the next morning the cup will be overflowing with watery skinmate.

:(

photo coming later this evening

[Napervegas]

Not sure about the gate valve, mine is from the first batch in the US it does not have any adjustments on it..., it took me a couple weeks to figure out the proper depth of water to keep it in, after that its been workig fine. I think mine is about 6 1/2 inches deep can measure tonite if that might help you. my bubbles go all the way to the top, they start getting large about 2 inches from the top. After feeding or putting my hands in the tank , it dies down for an hour or 2 then starts working again.

[Canarygirl]

I think mine is from the first batch in the US too. I bought it in February. Greg Moran (ReefGeek) sent me a gate valve for it a couple of months ago when he was trying to help me with it. That made it a lot easier to adjust but it didn't make the performance any more consistent. Another guy who helps me said that a good auto-topoff to keep the sump level constant would be the ticket, and that hasn't helped much either.

I'll measure the depth in my sump when I get home.

[klam114]

So CG, you do have a constant sump water level because of the auto top-off unit. That's great as constant sump water level in the skimmer chamber is an absolute must or you will have inconsistent skimming. How about the water level compared to the skimmer, is it around 6" deep? You will get drier skimming if it's around 6", wetter if it is around 7"-8" and very wet if it is 9". Very hard to control the skimmer if the sump water level is too deep. If your skimmer is deeper than 6", you'll need to raise your skimmer, that would help. I also recommend that you install an air valve to control the air draw. My local skimmer dealer recommends an air valve for all the BM200 that he sells, it fine tunes the performance so much more than stock.

[Canarygirl]

The sump water level is 7.25 inches. I spoke to Ed in SF and he is going to send me an air valve to try. Maybe that will help! :)

[klam114]

The air valve should help! Ed is my local dealer. He's great and definitely is quite knowledgeable on the BM200. Ask him about your sump water level, I bet he'll recommend that you raise the skimmer so that it is around 6". Good luck, glad you found kmaintl.

[Canarygirl]

I have had the Deltec air valve in place for the last 3 days and immediately after doing this my skinmate production has been slightly darker and defintely lower in quantity. I have not had any overflows since then. I think this may be ticket.

Thanks to all who recommended this air valve.

Oh, and I have not adjusted the water level in sump....it's still 7.25 inches.

[Mike01Z]

how did you set the air valve? straight up fully open or at like 1 o clock?

[Canarygirl]

One Pee-Emmm ;)

[Mike01Z]

LOL ?!

Hows it doing so far skimmate wise?, I had mine set at 1 pee emm but just moved it to fully open to see if there is a diff. Just trying to maximise my BM200 as well.


Also hows your exhaust? did you do the 45 degree angle thing? is the end submerged in water?

[Canarygirl]

Well, I've got about 3/8" new skimmate in the past 12 hours. It's still wet but is dark/wet instead of watery wet. The top 1" of the neck gets really dirty after a couple of days' use. From what I understand from talking to Ed at KM Associates Int'l, this means that I have the gate valve set just right.

I have the 45 degree angle on the exhaust, with the end submerged. :)

[Mike01Z]

cool one last question, how high is your water lvl in the skimmer,

like where does the little bubble start to become big?

[Canarygirl]

The little bubbles start to become big...

early this morning it was halfway up the neck. Other times when I've looked at it, it was about 1 inch below the top of the neck.

I guess it is supposed to fluctuate some that way, depending on what needs to be broken down in the water column.

[Mike01Z]

cool thanks

[Lumamae]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10649339#post10649339 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Canarygirl
The sump water level is 7.25 inches. I spoke to Ed in SF and he is going to send me an air valve to try. Maybe that will help! :) I'm starting to see this name and company everywhere. Just talked to them myself yesterday, very knowledgeable.

[Mike01Z]

hey CanaryGirl I'm just curious how its going with your skimmer got any pics? Are you still happy with the air valve?

[Canarygirl]

Hey, Mike.

I am still very happy and even more relieved that this air valve has done the trick for me. I haven't had a single overflow since I put it on there, and the skimmate is of course a lot darker now that it isn't skimming overly wet.

I'll try to post a pic of a few days' "nog" this evening... :)

[Reef Sponger]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10742732#post10742732 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Canarygirl
I am still very happy and even more relieved that this air valve has done the trick for me. I haven't had a single overflow since I put it on there, and the skimmate is of course a lot darker now that it isn't skimming overly wet. :thumbsup:

[rob020880]

Where can I get one of these deltec air valves?

[Canarygirl]

Rob, I sent you a pm with Ed's email address.


Here's a photo of "nog" from the past 4 days. Sorry, I'm the world's worst photographer. Don't know how to make them not-blue, for one thing....but I tried.

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/146146nog__120_x_160_.jpg

[Mike01Z]

dang no way to make it bigger huh.


To get rid of blue use a flash,

use photobucket to make it big.

[Canarygirl]

trying to make it bigger

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/146146nog2__320_x_240_.jpg

[Lumamae]

Wow, that is pretty dark stuff. And all you did was add the air valve, adjusted it and your skimming went from watery to dark? That is pretty impressive skimming? What are you keeping in your tank to get such dark coffee color skimmate and how many days of skimming in the above photo?

[Canarygirl]

There's 4 days' skimmate in there.

I have a medium bio load in a 145 net gallon system: 1 large tang, foxface rabbitfish, 4 clowns, 3 chromis, 2 firefish, 1 dwarf angel.

The skimmate is actually the color of dark ice tea, not as black as the photo appears. It is definitely much darker than it used to be though. And no more overflows, so I'm happy.

[Lumamae]

I see you've been working with Ed in SF for your support. I've only talked to him once about the right skimmer for my 90g mixed reef and traded a couple of emails. I know he's knowledgeable with these skimmers, but how's his after sales support. I see that you've been struggling with adjusting for 6 months before getting resolved with what seems to be a simplistic solution (too simply)?

[Reef Sponger]

Luma, don't worry about support from kmaintl as they are the greatest. Canary isn't one of their customers, Ed just helped her out to get over the frustration of adjusting her BM200 and not getting what she wanted out of her skimmer.

[Lumamae]

Ah, I misunderstood the situation. Wow, that's support.

[Canarygirl]

Luninae,

I did not buy my BM200 from Ed. He helped me on the phone and sent me an air valve even though I didn't buy from him.

The company/person that I did buy it from was unable to help me, even after I specifically asked them about the air valve modification. They said they had no experience with it.

[Mike01Z]

whats the chances of you taking one more picture closeup on the neck so we can see where the bubble line is.

[klam114]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10647332#post10647332 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Canarygirl
I think mine is from the first batch in the US too. I bought it in February. Greg Moran (ReefGeek) sent me a gate valve for it a couple of months ago when he was trying to help me with it. That made it a lot easier to adjust but it didn't make the performance any more consistent. Another guy who helps me said that a good auto-topoff to keep the sump level constant would be the ticket, and that hasn't helped much either.

I'll measure the depth in my sump when I get home. From your photo, you have 2nd generation BM200. Both gate valve and air valve really helps with the 1st and 2nd generation BM200, but only if one is experiencing problems.

[klam114]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10777971#post10777971 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Mike01Z
whats the chances of you taking one more picture closeup on the neck so we can see where the bubble line is. The instructions that I received when I first picked up my skimmer is:
Start the skimmer's bubble breaking level at about even with the bottom of the collection cup to no more than an inch above the bottom of the collection and leave it there for 3 days. On the 4th day if the skimming is to dry for your preference, adjust it up 1/2" and leave overnight. Don't adjust more than 1/2" every 24 hours or the skimmer could easily overflow during the break-in period. It can take up to 3 weeks to fully break-in a ATi skimmer.

Eventually, when you can get it so the top 1" of the riser pipe in the middle of the collection cup gets dirty with fish poop, then you've got it dialed in well. Probably after a collection cup cleaning, the bubble breaking level on a fully broken in skimmer is about 1/2 way up the neck is where it turns from the small fine bubbles to the larger bubbles. Every skimmer is a little different with each setup, above is just a general rule of thumb.

[klam114]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10777971#post10777971 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Mike01Z
whats the chances of you taking one more picture closeup on the neck so we can see where the bubble line is. The instructions that I received when I first picked up my skimmer is:
Start the skimmer's bubble breaking level at about even with the bottom of the collection cup to no more than an inch above the bottom of the collection and leave it there for 3 days. On the 4th day if the skimming is to dry for your preference, adjust it up 1/2" and leave overnight. Don't adjust more than 1/2" every 24 hours or the skimmer could easily overflow during the break-in period. It can take up to 3 weeks to fully break-in a ATi skimmer.

Eventually, when you can get it so the top 1" of the riser pipe in the middle of the collection cup gets dirty with fish poop, then you've got it dialed in well. Probably after a collection cup cleaning, the bubble breaking level on a fully broken in skimmer is about 1/2 way up the neck is where it turns from the small fine bubbles to the larger bubbles. Every skimmer is a little different with each setup, above is just a general rule of thumb.

[Mike01Z]

yep Ed has told me that as well, I actually have mine skimming even wetter than that, I'm not a patient type of person I guess.

On mine I'd say that the top 1/2 inch gets dirty but my skimmate is about double the production of CanaryGirls, What I am trying to see is how high her bubble level is and how dark the skimmate is.

[Mike01Z]

Here are some pics with mine, I tried to show the bubble level but its too hard cause of the skim haze, I even cleaned it off a bit to no avail, I'll take more of the bubble lvl after a new cleaning/emptying of cup.


Here they are
this is 5 days of skimmate

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v491/mkovar/IMG_1928.jpg


drain

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v491/mkovar/IMG_1932.jpg

air valve

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v491/mkovar/IMG_1931.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v491/mkovar/IMG_1929.jpg

[Mike01Z]

and for comparisons sake, here is a pic of my mesh and gate modded g3 on the same tank after 3 days of skimming

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v491/mkovar/IMG_1892.jpg


A full g3 cup is about 2 inces in the BM200 cup and you can see from the pic on day 5 I'm at about 5 or 6 inches in the cup and the skim is a bit darker, on day 3 my g3 was a half a cup so I'm probably roughly maybe doubling the performance of the g3???

[Canarygirl]

Mike,

Sorry no pics last night. I did crank up my gate valve 2 turns to raise the bubble breaking point. It is now breaking ~1.75" below the top of the neck.

Your photos don't have the color distortion that mine did, and I can see that the color of your skimmate in the BM is very similar to mine. Ice tea color. Mine is probably a tad lighter/more translucent than yours is.

[Mike01Z]

yeah so far I've found a pretty wet medium seems to be key along with turning that air valve to 1 pee emm :)

another thing I do is every couple days I wipe the goo off the top of the collection cup and neck so a decent bubble head can form,

I think we have our skimmers set really close to the same.

[Canarygirl]

another thing I do is every couple days I wipe the goo off the top of the collection cup and neck so a decent bubble head can form,

Same here. And I think that wet skimmate is good as long as it's not too diluted...

[Mike01Z]

yep agreed, wet isn't bad as long as its still skimmate and not mostly water.

[rob020880]

How do you guys have the air valve set? It looks fully open in the above pics? Also why do you keep the fiber filling in the part where you have the valve? And finally why would you keep the cap on, wouldn't it be best to remove it to increase the airflow and use the valve to adjust?

[Canarygirl]

Rob,

We both have the air valve set at the 1:00 pm setting.

Keeping the top of the air chamber on reduces the noise factor.

Putting the fiber in the top of the tube helps keep dust from clogging up the works.

[klam114]

Just installing the air valve will already restrict the air a little since without it, the air hose is wide open. I've always like to have full control over my skimmer like the H&S skimmer that is on my other tank, than rather leave it up to manufacturer's standard setting of fully open. I found that restricting it down some more, around 12:30 position for me, the bubbles before a lot finer and the foam head develops stronger and stays consistent for longer periods. Also, seem to come back quicker after feedings as the finer bubbles gets things going again.

rob - As for the floss in the silencer, you want to take 1/2 of it out and just leave enough so that it doesn't touch the air valve nor touch the top cap. If it touches the top cap, it can clogg quickly while pulling the dust into the silencer. Also, keep the floss a little away from the air valve so it doesn't get clogged by the fibers.

[Mike01Z]

yeah thats what I did removed half the floss, and I found that if you really want really fine bubbles put it at the 1pm position, then the bubbles in the neck before the riser are really small.

But yes the air valve really allows you to set the bubble break height to the point that you can run like myself and canarygirl as well as several others which is right at the brink of wet, on mine I get max a 1/2 inch of foam head and anykind of a surge makes it full wet.

[Mike01Z]

oh yeah and the cap and floss really make the skimmer silent, it pulls more than enough air to be honest, if you take off the valve and run it wide open the bubbles are honestly too big and way overkill preventing a true/good setting for the skimmer IMO.

I guess its kinda cool that it comes stock pushing so much air that its impossible to make good use of it. On the other hand I think that the air valve should be included stock on the BM200's as this makes them skim so much better.

[klam114]

Mike, your photos look great. I don't think there's any doubt that your new BM200 skims more out of your tank than the G3. They were both on the same exact tank, right? There more being collected, quality and quantity. Then of course, your skimmer is still breaking in.

[Mike01Z]

I am doing a final test on this next cup of skimmate, I'll know for sure after this.


yeah its on the same tank but I was wrong half of the g3 cup is about 1.5 to 2 inches in the BM cup this is why I need one more test to know for sure.

[Mike01Z]

After doing this for several weeks I think the g3 pulled a similar amount of skimmate but the bm200 does have more DOCS in the skimmate it pulls so I do like the bm200 better for that reason.

I think the key is the air valve and cleaning the top of the collection cup every other day to make it easy for the bubbles to spill over etc.

[Reef Sponger]

Your photos look great from 2-3 weeks ago. If the waste is accumulating too quickly on the cap, did you try adjusting the bubble breaking level about 1/2" higher already? Of course, not too high or the skimmer can overflow, but just high enough so that the cap stays cleaner and more waste moves into the collection cup. What I've noticed compared to other skimmers I've owned and used, while cleaning the collection cup and neck slows down skimmate collection for other skimmers for a little while, for the BM skimmers, it helps it perform better if kept cleaner (like you discovered as well).

How does the skimmate smell in your 2 skimmers? Is there a difference with more DOCs in the skimmate?

[Mike01Z]

yeah the BM does stink alot worse thats true but it does sit in the collection cup for a week,


The main thing that made me think about more docs is that on the bubbles from the BM I can see what looks like coagulated blood aka doc buildup whereas on the asm I never saw that.


Its a decent skimmer for sure, you say adjust it even further up huh, hmmmm I might try it.

[Reef Sponger]

Yes, if the waste is collecting too quickly on the cap and the top portion of the riser inside the collection cup, then the bubble level is a little too low. Raise it up only 1/2" to start with and see how it does during the next week. If the collection cap is too too gunky, raise it up another 1/2" next week. You shouldn't have to wipe the cap and riser every other day to keep the skimmer going, let the skimmer do the work by skimming a little wetter than you've been.