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CharAznable
08/28/2007, 06:11 AM
Is it easier for water pumps to return in 90 degree angles or 45 degree angles? My sump will be in my basement and it is about 4-5 feet away from where the return pumps are located in the wall. I am trying to determine if I would keep head pressure stronger if I had it go up a 45 degree angle to the wall or else go straight up to a 90 degree angle and then over to another 90 degree angle to the returns. Any help would be appreciated.

MalHavoc
08/28/2007, 06:14 AM
A 90 degree bend has more friction loss than a 45 degree bend, so if you use those and get away with them, go for it. Just remember that you may end up using more lengths of pipe with 45 degree bends, because 90 degree bends are more compact and take up less room. That would have more of an impact. If it was me, I'd probably go with 90 degree bends and see if I can run a larger diameter pipe to compensate.

der_wille_zur_macht
08/28/2007, 06:21 AM
Another possibility for something like a basement sump (where there's usually lots of unobstructed room for plumbing) is to use flexible hose. Make sure the diameter is large enough, and use very gentle bends. It'll be more efficient than anything you can do with hard PVC.

The only drawback to using hose is that most nozzles are pretty restrictive, so I'd size up from your hard plumbing to get a nozzle that's the same ID as the hard plumbing is. Another alternative is flexible PVC (aka spaflex), but I'm not personally a fan of the stuff. Not as flexible as hose and can be tough to work with for people not used to it.

jer77
08/28/2007, 06:34 AM
Its better to use one 90 degree elbow than two 45 degree elbows, less friction loss. What size pipe are you using? I know home depot sells long sweeps in sizes 1-1/2'' diameter and larger, these would be much better than either a 90 or 45 degree elbow. Remember never to place an elbow directly on the inlet or outlet of a pump. MalHavoc has a good idea to use larger diameter pipe to lessen the pressure put on the pump.

CharAznable
08/28/2007, 06:43 AM
I definitely won't be using any elbows by the pump. If I go 45 degrees I would be going straight up from the pump a foot or two before the 45 elbow. I then would have a nother 45 elbow up at the wall return. If I went 90 degrees I would be essentially doing the same thing but with two 90 elbows in place of the two 45 elbows. The return bulkheads on my tank are 1" returns so I have been sticking to 1" pipe. If using a reducer would be worth it I could upgrade to 1 1/2" inches. Any suggestions to these?

JoeMomma
08/28/2007, 07:24 AM
Not meaning to thread jack but hopefully a useful question... I am in a similar situation.

Those long sweeps of PVC are electrical conduit and not designed to be able to sustain water pressure (at least thats what HD in Canada has). Will these be ok for a basement return pump like a Barracuda rated at 4500GPH?

The return on my system that I have plumbed so far is all 1.5" PVC which splits into two 1" lengths via a Y and reducers at the display tank. The larger the pipe diameter the better...

CharAznable
08/28/2007, 10:53 AM
My LFS (www.sharkysreef.com) uses a LOT of PVC for their plumbing and they don't have a problem as far as I can tell.

papagimp
08/28/2007, 12:55 PM
I went with vinyl tubing for mine, easier to work with and I took the headloss from all the adapters into consideration when choosing a return pump.

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/4651/123821plumbing7.jpg http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/4651/123821plumbing5.jpg
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/4651/123821plumbing6.jpg http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/4651/123821plumbing3.jpg

Makes it very nice when I have to remove anything for cleaning vs. having hard pvc ran everywhere....tried that one before and like this option better.

CharAznable
08/28/2007, 01:04 PM
My specific question is will the 45 degree pipe kill more headloss then a 90 degree angle?

jer77
08/28/2007, 03:44 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10653119#post10653119 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by CharAznable
My specific question is will the 45 degree pipe kill more headloss then a 90 degree angle?

Yes, a 45 degree elbow will produce less head loss than a 90 degree elbow.

poppin_fresh
08/28/2007, 07:08 PM
If I read the question right...

Are you asking about the plumbing moving UP from the sump to return pumps? Almost all pumps in the hobby don't do well at pulling water up hill. If the pump is not below the water line of the sump, it might not matter how you plumb it.

AZDesertRat
08/28/2007, 07:37 PM
Poppin, I think you are on the right track. It sounds like the pump(s) are remote from the sump and at a higher elevation to me too. If thats the case it will not work period. Centrifugal pumps will not lift water in any fashion. The pumps centerline must always be below the water surface of the sump or what is called positive suction head. They will not suck, they only push what is available to them and water will not travel up to a pump by itself. I am not aware of any self priming or jet type pumps for reef use and they would be horribly inefficient if you could find them.

CharAznable
08/29/2007, 05:57 AM
No the pump is at the bottom. I am pushing the water up to the tank. The return pipes connected to the tank are in the wall and are in a definite spot. The return pipes connecting them to the pump are negotiable so that is why I am trying to determine the best configuration for them.

Here is a picture that shows what I am trying to do.

http://img512.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pvcty3.gif

The lengths I added were arbitrary and no longer accurate because I have made a stand to lift the sump and the pump 3 feet off the ground. If I go with the 45 degree angle then the 45 degree pipe will be about 5 feet and the vertical pipe connecting it to the pump will be about 1 1/2 feet

AZDesertRat
08/29/2007, 08:05 AM
The head loss difference between the 90 and the 45 is going to be so small I would plumb it however it fits best. Try to keep the fittings to a minimum whichever way you go and make sure to include unions to get the pump and valves loose for maintenance.