lighting a lg tank, LED's ??

[Elliott]

I'm planning a new tank, 17 ft long, 4 ft wide and 30 in high. What do you think of LED lighting? The fact that it lasts 50,000 hrs, produces no heat in the tank and uses 40% less electricity is quite attractive. Yes, they are pricey but not in the long run if you consider operating costs in electricity to power MH's and the heat they produce. I would probably need 3 LED units to cover the tank. Anyone currently using them?

[thorsen]

There are a lot of people with a whole lot to say about LEd's.

Try:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1080494&perpage=25&pagenumber=1

[Elliott]

ahh, thanks Thorsen, looks like I hit a nerve :lol:

[steve the plumb]

I don't think it would be worth it .I think it would just cost you way to much money in fixtures.The Aqua Illumination fixtures are (I think) better than the PFO.You would need a good 8- 10 fixtures.Maybe you could get away with less.Cost you a good 22 k just in lights.You are better off going with 400 watt MH bulbs on a good reflector.You can vent the pendants and 400 watt bulbs will give you a nice light.You could get away with using 250 watt bulbs but you would need more of them so cost wise the 400 watt would be better.You would need a good 6 or 7 and you should get a nice light with that.

[Elliott]

steve the plumb: thanks for the info. I'm thinking the same way, I have 4 x 250 MH's with 8 actinics over my 300 currently, nice light but they sure produce the HEAT. I run a 1.5 hp chiller which seems like an overkill but here in Arizona we've had over 30 days of 110+ temperatures and that chiller has been running a lot, even with the house thermostat set a 77 degrees!

I'm looking into running a "cooling" loop underground with a heat exchanger to help with the energy costs.

[steve the plumb]

You could probably run vents to the pendants.I think the luminarcs have that built in.So you could suck some of the heat out or blow cool air in.You are looking at a very big tank.The cost of what you are going to spend on a system of that size will be a small fortune.I would try to use some form of a/c unit just for the tank room.This way you could remove humid air and try to cool the lights.I have just started setting up a 300 gal.I was going to go with 4 x 250 watt mh but I know thats to much heat.I am going with T5 and mh.I was going to do just T5 but I would need a few bulbs and they do produce heat..If you can keep your fish room cool,I am thinking the lights will be in the fish room or none viewable.You can get one of those European A/C units 18 BTU to cool the room and keep the humidity down.They don't use to much power.They are efficient.I may go with one for my basement.I have a portable a/c unit.My sump is in my garage and winter here is cold.The summers are muggy.The problem with a chiller is it heats up the room.It should be in an open area.Your chiller isn't an overkill.Its good for a 450 gal tank but if the room itself is humid and the chiller heats up part of that room it will work harder to keep the water cool.What is the size of your sump.

[Elliott]

here is a recent thread/pictures of my current setup:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1196077&highlight=elliott

the chiller sits in the garage and produces quite a bit of heat, so I have to run an evaporative cooler on it to prevent it from shutting off (it has an auto pressure shut off switch). Next time I will place the chiller outside.

For the large tank I'm planning, it will be built into the wall you see behind my current tank and will sit in the garage. I'm planning to build a room around the tank with an ac unit (maybe the european model you suggested) to keep everything cool. It will still be plumbed to the remote mechanical room you see in the pictures.

[steve the plumb]

You can get a sanyo or another model thats less expensive.I have an sanyo18,000 BTU for my upstairs.Its very quiet and its not an electricity hog.I wouldn't get a no name brand.I have a friend that sells them and has had some problems with commpressers after a year.It didn't happen to all the ones he sold but he did have to fix some of them.The good one's like sanyo,mitsoubitshi have 5 or 6 years parts and labor.The fan goes outside and its very quiet so you won't get any complaints from neighbors.

[Elliott]

good to know, thanks

[steve the plumb]

Sure not a problem.The thing with large tanks is how deep does your pocket book go.You need all these lights yet all these lights cause all this heat.Then you have a large amount of water that evaporates causing moisture damage (if room isn't properly sealed) and humidity and more heat.Then you have to get some kind of unit that can cool the tank and the room and remove humidity(witch in turn requires more energy)Then the electric bills start to rise.I hope my bill doesn't go up to much or my wife will have a heart attack.

[Elliott]

lol, yeah it's a vicious cycle indeed, and not a cheap one at that!:eek2:

[purebullet417]

id say its not worth it eaither you would need at least 6 proboly 8 units to light the tank. get yourself some 400w mh and some cooling fans

[Elliott]

how bout natural sunlight? check this out, sun tubes:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=56125&perpage=25&pagenumber=1

[steve the plumb]

natural sunlight is great but I think you would need the light to hit the tank directly from the top witch you would have to have some sort of skylight to get the sun to cover the tank with light.Its not a bad idea free lighting no chiller ,less wattage.What I don't know is does window glass keep out to much uv light and will the window allow the proper spectrum of light to get to the tank.Also angle of light.The window will only allow light for a certain period of time.What about the rest of the day.If you had this tank outside or the entire ceiling was made of glass then you know you will get enough light.There are 2 guys I have seen with tanks like that.One guy is from Portugal,his tank is totally outside its a pretty neat concept.The other guy has a 450 gal(I think) he has is tank in a big selerium (it looks like that) its a big room as well.He has a nice set up.The guy from Portugal has his tank in the ground(sort of like a koi pond) and the tank has glass over it.Its something I thought was very different from a regular setup.Its not something I would do(climate here wouldn't allow it)Both these tanks are reef tanks.I don't remember there name's.Its a good thing if you are able to use natural sunlight.You would save a hell of a lot of money if you can do it that way.

[sfsuphysics]

For the sunlit bit, I love it, however it does warm the water up quite a bit, I have a frag/growout (ahem.. test) tank of about 10g (by very shallow so a wide surface area) lit almost exclusively by sunlight (there is a 175w 14k hamiliton in position to shine on the really cloudy days (but I might ditch that soon) and it's hooked to my whole system ~130 gallons, and on really sunny days it raises the entire temp of the whole system quite a bit, a fan blowing across it remedies this situation though.

Also on this matter of heat, I was under the impression that the light energy going into the water comprised the single largest source of heating for a tank, so to me it seems that LEDs wouldn't provide heat a tank less unless they were putting less light into a tank. All external heat via bulbs and what not as mentioned can easily be vented out with a non-passive fan/vent system.

[Elliott]

I'm looking into a natural sunlight supply with a sun tracking device, made by these guys:

http://new.daylighting.com/index.asp

since I live in Arizona it seems like a logical alternative

[steve the plumb]

modification to your home might not be so cheap.LED use heat sink to disperse the heat.The LED lights are to expensive for now.Maybe 5 years down the road they will have a good system thats affordable and puts out as much light as a high quality MH system.Elliott if you are building a 17 ft tank I wouldn't worry about what the lights will cost and what heat they will give off.The bottom line is the system alone will probably cost you 20k once your said and done(I am being very modest) The money you will put into this tank is nothing compared to the electric bill.Yes you will spend alot on electricity but wit a good a/c unit you could probably remove the heat and humidity.I don't want to sound like a jerk but if you can afford a 17 ft tank I wouldn't worry about what it will cost to maintain that tank.I don't see you spending less than 30 k for this set up unless you have most of the equipment.If you are buying everything top of the line 30 k won't be enough.I am spending close to 7k.I have some equipment from my old tank(some not all) This is no livestock in the tank.Your tank will be 1300 gal with no sump.I don't know if you planto buy top of the line stuff or just good quality for a good price.

[rppvt]

The sola-tubes are really light. I've scouted them for the house here in LA. I thought there was a 300 watt light in the ceiling, and it doesn't need to be directly on the collector to produce great lighting.
if I were doing a big tank, I'd look into a string of those, with T5s (or something) to augment along the sides.

[Elliott]

steve the plumb: Though I realize the costs involved I'm also cost conscience and don't want to be wasteful.

rppvt: I'm with you. Living here in Arizona the sun shines most days so it just makes sense.

[steve the plumb]

This hobby is a waste of money and time(to some people)but not to us.Its a very expensive hobby.You can set up your tank for less but the size of tank that you want isn't cheap.Are you going acrylic or glass?The 400 watt MH may cause your tank to crack and bow because of the heat.If you look at Kevin Pro's thread (in this forum) of his 560 acrylic tank the MH bulbs have caused the 6 year old tank to bow.He has to buy another one but the funds are not there.Seems like a very nice guy I felt bad for him.He is trying to fix the problem but in the end it looks like he will need another tank.My tank is also acrylic.I am going with 150 watt MH.I will have to try to control the heat.I myself don't plan on replacing this tank.If you are going to use 400 watt MH I would consider glass.I think a glass tank of that size will be very expensive.I don't know what you plan to do.Its just a heads up.I would hate to have an acrlic tank of that size and have something go wrong.Maybe you can get it thicker than you planned.You can check Kevin's thread and maybe ask around.I myself didn't know about this problem till I read his thread.There is someone else who is having a similar problem but I don't remember who.

[Elliott]

steve the plumb:

3/4" starphire is only available in 130" lengths and "regular" 3/4" glass is available in 144" lengths. So I must use acrylic if I want the tank to be seamless across the front panel. Tenecor, located here in Phoenix, is planning to use 1 1/4" acrylic.

[steve the plumb]

I would ask them about the heat issue just to be safe.1 1/4" is thick but just to be on the safe side what are the long term effects of MH on that thickness of acrylic.You are spending a ton of money and it would be very disappointing if this happend to your tank.Thats very thick so I don't think it will happen but I think the heat also effects the seems.I think the heat causes minor fractures in the acrylic itself.I myself am worried on my tank because the last thing I want is to have to get another one.My wife isn't to happy about this tank so God forbid I would need another 6 or 7 years down the line.Your tank should be a beast.I would like to see that tank when its finished.With acrylic you can drill it yourself so I don't know if you are going to do that or you are just going to buy the tank drilled.I have the OM 8 way on a dart pump.I would use the same on your tank.I would go with a stronger pump but I think in your case I would go with 3 x OM 8 way and use the hammerhead pump on all 3 Ocean Motions 8 way.I will take a video when mine is up and running.I say go with 3 of them only because your tank is wide aswell.I think you can get great flow with that type of setup.It won't be cheap but you can hide everything.

[Elliott]

yeah, I currently have an OM 4 way on a Barracuda CL, on my 300g. I use eductors at the ends which really helps with the flow. I like the sequence pumps due to their efficiency but have found the Pan World pressure pumps better with the eductors, since they require so much pressure to push the water through. I plan to have the tank pre drilled. I drilled my current tank but would rather leave that to someone else, if you know what I mean! :) would love to see your video

[steve the plumb]

Yes no one loves to do this type of work.It all depends on your time and what you do for a living.I can do it(I am a plumber) plus I don't have the money to pay someone else do it.Every penny counts.It all adds up.I am already over my budget but it always goes that way.

[Elliott]

I prefer to do most things myself, but somethings like electrical and drilling tanks make me a little nervous. My goal with this next tank will be setting it up as green as possible with natural lighting, gravity flow from overhead surge tanks, underground temperature control and the like.

[Von_Rahvin]

for a tank that big if you have any DIY skills a LED array becomes cost effective. a little bit of searching should provide you with some places you can buy 5watt 10 k LEDS, that as long as you are buying them in batches over 1000 they aren't that expensive.

[Elliott]

hmm, that's an idea, thanks, I'll look into that

[crazzy]

So where does one buy the Array's etc. etc. that one needs to construct ones own with the ver y latest LED's??

[Von_Rahvin]

you can't buy an array you have to build it yourself. (edit : and keep it cheap) the tricky part is the heat sinks and the lenses.

[crazzy]

I can find places to buy LED's, where are other parts available? At ORCA it was mentioned that even Solaris donot make their own (true or not that is what was said) so where do I find suppliers for parts?

[nyvp]

just do a google search under 5 watt led 10k

[Von_Rahvin]

Solaris's are made in china.

as for the part's they are easy to find you just have to purchase everything in bulk.