Turbelle stream

[brianq]

Hey Roger,

First, I'd like to say the forum and your input is great! Before it was always very hard to find any information about Tunze products unless I came by Aquatek and bugged you...

Question -

I am very excited to see a product like the turbelle stream finally coming out. I have always felt that moving large amounts of water gently has been one of the lacking features in a closed system. I think a kit containing the stream pumps will be great for a large tank I have planned.

I just have one concern - From looking at pictures on the tunze site I am not sure where the inlet is located (maybe the sides?). On the turbelle powerheads there is a long strainer attached that prevents objects from being sucked up into the motor. With flow rates of up to 3,170 gph I am concerned that anenomes will be sucked in. If the sides function as the strainers will this provided enough protection for roaming anenomes?

Thanks!

[kelhuffman]

While you wait for Roger's reply I'll throw in my unsolicited two-cents! The intake screen for the Stream surrounds the output aperture. Look closely at the pic and you can see it pretty easily as it has a protective grill on it. Your concern about anemones being damaged may be a legitimate one, but in my experience the protective intage strainers for the tunze pumps don't stop anemone damage either! My 2002's have done plenty of damage to my rose anemones. And so has every other protective screen for Rios etc. No true way to stop those jelly bodies from being sucked through the gaps. FWIW, I'm buying a stream as soon as I can find on available retail. I'll be posting results as soon as I have them!

[geo]

Originally posted by kelhuffman
FWIW, I'm buying a stream as soon as I can find on available retail.

Any word on when they will be available?

[endymion]

brianq - seeing one in action at Aquatek the surround of the prop is the strainer. I doubt that an anemone could withstand the suction around the strainer.

Why don't you just come down to Aquatek and take a look at demo model in the 150G sps tank.


geo -

They are coming pretty soon. Talking to Roger they are assembling as we speak. Also from what I understand there is huge demand around the world for these pumps USA/Europe/Japan etc.

See if you can reserve one from the online sellers of Tunze products (Marine Depot and Champion).

Roger will chime in and possibly beat me for talking to much. I can only hope ;)

[rvitko]

The Stream pumps will be available in very limited quantity this fall starting in early November. First production runs from Tunze are largely hand made and it is a small factory. The demand currently far exceeds supply. This should improve next year. In regards to the intake screen, it is so near the output that getting sucked in without being blown away first would seem unlikely. In general due to the large area for the propeller and the nature of the propeller system we found it to be safer than impellers in regards to fish entering the pump. In regards to the 2002 sucking in the Rose anemone I could offer numerous solutions, it is possible to use a larger intake or T the intake or purchase a 1600 cartridge filter which would pretty much eliminate this risk.

[brianq]

Thanks for all the feedback! I did stop by Aquatek and saw one in action in the SPS display tank. I was impressed by how small it actually was. I really wanted to stick my hand in there to feel how much water was actually moving, but the staff probably would have not approved of that...

Roger - I understand what you mean by the intake and output being so close together. It did look like that anything that approached it would have been blown back to the other side of the tank.

[rvitko]

OK, this morning I recieved an update on the Stream pumps. The 6100 and 6110 will be available Mid November. The 6080 may be a little behind. In about 6 months we will likely have a smaller more economical version as well as a much larger version. I apologize that their has been an additional delay. The general 2 week delay is the result of Ethology studies which found a flaw. We initially believed fish would be unlikely to enter the pump, studies showed that gobies and blennies did not like to enter the pump because the light coming through the intake slots was adversive. We knew some fish liked to swim up the stream but it was futile and they were too large to enter the pumps (hawkfish in particular). In beta testing it was found that the light entering through slots mimics the light entering an Acropora head and this is the problem. Damsels and chromis will enter the pump, particularly in set up when the hands are in the tank and the fish is frightened. We are working to eliminate this risk without losing flow, we must also include a warning in the manual.

The 6080 is delayed because unlike the 6100 and 6110 which run the same throughout the world regardless of source power, it must use a different coil and impeller for 60Hz and 115V. The initial tests performed at Tunze USA showed no problems with starting or long term running. However, we realize that many cities particularly in California and other overpopulated areas with frequent brown outs will have dips in the power supply. This could cause reliability problems and we wish to test further to be sure that the pump can run on power as low as 100V. Austin mains voltage runs between 117 and 122V in my tests. This will also be important for customers in Japan and Brazil which will use the same model pump with a 100V supply. This week we will set up the pump on a regulated power supply and check the minimum threshhold for start up, these figures will give us the data we need to procede with production. Such tests have already been performed in Germany but the Hertz simulation is not a perfect test so we wish to redo the tests on a 60Hz supply.

On the bright side a few more pumps will be made available in the initial release and the thorough testing will ensure that all customers are pleased.

[djwang]

Damsels and chromis will enter the pump

Finally, a way to get rid of the damsel used to cycle the tank...

David


ok, sorry, that was bad -- couldn't resist...:eek1:

[kelhuffman]

Hey Roger, can you hurry up already and get me my Stream!?!?!?! :)

You may have addressed this already and I apologize in advance if you have. The electronic stream moves a LOT of water but since I've never seen one before I'm wondering how FAR it can move that water? I have a 120G 4x2x2 tank. My intention is to place the stream in the right back corner aiming at the opposite left front corner. There are corals in the flow's path. I have two 2002s and my thought is to move them out of the back corners and to the front corners with the one stream in the back as described.

I have already placed a pre-order for one (champion) and I'm considering (if there's still room left on the waiting list) of asking for another since they're in such short supply. However, I could just be a little over anxious. So, I guess my question is how many of them do you believe are needed for an acro dominated, 120G tank?

THANKS!

[rvitko]

You may have trouble keeping your sand bed in place, I am running the Beta test model in a 4 * 2.5 * 2 aquarium and their is no sand on the other side of the tank. Anyway one will be quite sufficient.

[Jorsan]

rvitko,
Reading your answer to the kelhuffman post, I understand that you're saying that one 6100 will be enough to move all the water in his 120G or you're saying that INCLUDING his actual pumps (makes a total of 3 if understand corerectly)?. Thanks

[rvitko]

By one I meant just one 6100, nothing else. I frankly would prefer two 7400s or two 4002. I think the 6100 is a bit much, It creates some trouble with keeping the sand bed down. My tank is a wide 48" * 30" * 24". The sand is all blown away from the far end of the tank. The stream pumps are neat and very natural flow but it cannot run any accessories, the 7400 and 4002 allow you to use mechanical and carbon filters, it also can be used more effectively to circulate water in a small aquarium, the stream will create a fairly unidirectional flow which is not as good in my opinion as the very random flow that can be accomplished by two or more pumps and a sophisticated controller. If it were me I would look at the Streams for aquaiums of 180 and up. I would use the standard Turbelle Electronic for smaller aquariums. I know this is the big fad and everyone has to have one but sometimes a reality check is in order.
If you had a 120 that was so full of acros and montis that you can't see through it maybe a stream set to a lower flow rate would be a good supplement to another pump which can help create the more desirable random flow patterns which will keep the detritus suspended for removal.

[Jorsan]

Thanks for your honesty in this. Very interesting comments indeed!.
What about a "52"(L) x 28"(W) x 24"(H) but BARE BOTTOM for just SPS, do you htink kit 24 will do the job, or even in this scenario (with no sand and SPS corals in the tank) will be excesive too?
Thanks

[endymion]

'll jump in. The problem is from the current hitting the opposing wall which causes a partial redirected of flow to the bottom of the tank. If you are bare bottom I would say it should not be a problem with two units and the sand.

I feel comfortable saying you will have enough random currents if they are both on, opposing, pulsing etc. But the jury is still out since there are not 2 units in the US. to test this out.

[kelhuffman]

Interestingly, when I first purchased my 2002s and power timer for my 120G I had a really hard time keeping any sand in place. For a few months I kept their power at 70% max. Now I need all their power and more due to the added corals and growth. Yet the sand doesn't move anymore. Presumably since its packed down and "stickier" with various organisms growing on it. I guess I'll have to use the Stream at much reduced power until such time as I really need 100% flow or get a larger tank. Regardless if/when I get one I'll let you all know how it turns out on the power timer with the 2002's for random flow etc.

[rvitko]

We just finished a prototype of a small Stream pump, it should be available next year in Spring. It will do about 1500gph and though it can only be switched off and on 4 times per day on a timer- no wavemakers. Combined with a Turbelle Electronic you should be able to get a good random flow pattern in a smaller tank and the benefits of the broad Stream pattern. First and foremost I am a hobbyist so I have no reason to suggest things that aren't apprpriate. I work for Tunze because I use and believe in the products. If my advising against something shocks you, it shouldn't Tunze is run by hobbyists and our products are thoroughly researched to work when used as recommended. We are a small company and very different from any other aquarium product manufacturer. We do our best to provide practical solutions and good advice. While one Stream in theory could handle your flow demands- this is mainly for Jorsan- the problem with flow from one side, whether it pulses or not is the likelihood of a quiet spot or eddy spot developing as a detritus trap. A true rnadom flow will require at least two controllable powerheads or a powerhead and an Oscillating return like a Sea Swirl. The sand being stirred up is a secondary issue, certainly liverock positioning and bio film development could help control this problem. I just want people to have a relaistic perspective while the flow is gentle and Endymion can testify that an acro right in front of the powerhead will flourish and extend fully, even our standard powerheads feature wide outlets and reduced shearing force, these are the best solution for a smaller aquarium.

[endymion]

I run two 7200 Turbelles on my 58G tank. This is in addition to my 900GPH from a return. I have a deep sandbed (5"). And until a heater broke and wiped out about 30 SPS (change you heater every year, GFI and grounds don't always work), I had a great success growing SPS. I have slowly been adding nice aqua-cultured acros/montis back to my system.

I have no issues with sand be kicked up etc. My acros love it and because I am using more smaller pumps then 1 large one I have a lot of freedom in flow patterns. I recently put on a multi-controller for even more control. I have high and low flow areas in the tank.

I would not even try to put a stream on my 58G .... it would be a sand storm. But a 58G versus 180G is a huge difference.

I was planning on putting my two 7200 and 2 new Streams on a 180G tank that has been sitting in a back room for almost a year. I say planning, because I am looking at something even bigger. But even if it is bigger I plan on using the Stream pumps.

I will say they do cost some $$$ but once you have them you cant live without them. They are built to last and are serviceable. They are pumps that I can comfortably say I will be running for years to come.

Roger knows and may not like the fact that I am a opinionated bastard and I would tell him/others if the Turbelles etc where sh**.

[Jorsan]

Rvitko,
Sorry if I bother again with the same idea but I want to get the right picture. In your comments you mention that 2 streams could do the job for my new setup.

My idea is to use one 24 kit (two big streams and the controller) in a 52"(L) x 28"(W) x 24"(H) SPS tank; because Im goona go this time for a bare bottom aproach, sand storm is not an issue here. If I understand you well, under this circumstances looks like its a good idea to go for this kit (the 24): enough currents (cuantity and quality) with the possiblity to adjust them as the corals grow; Im I correct?
Sorry again but I need to confirm this ideas. Thanks

[rvitko]

Not a bother, I am sorry to be late responsing, I just got back from Dallas. For your tank with no substrate a Ts24 will present no problems, you can turn it down if you need to, theoretically you could have both pumps and only 1500gph of flow. I have gotten emails from people asking about use in 10gal micro reefs. I just felt the need to put the breaks on some peoples irrational need to have every new toy. It is a great product but it is not a replacement for our other powerheads, it carries the concept of broad, plankton safe flow to a new level but it has it's limitations which I outlined above. If you can justify the expense when a less costly, high quality Tunze solution exists then absolutely the TS24 is the ultimate set for your aquarium, and you can reduce each pump to 40% of output and on the multicontroller only one pump needs to run at a time. You will have infinite possibilities and you can start with low power and increase it as corals grow and create obstructions to flow. I hope I wasn't mistaken as being sarcastic, I just really don't like to see someone be oversold or dissatisfied.

[Jorsan]

Very honest and racional ideas. Thanks for your imput.

[joedelt]

couple of questions

im in the process of planning out a 2x2x2 cube which would be a room devider and allow one to see it from all sides. do you think one of the smaller models coming out in spring would still be too much, or would i be better off getting two of the standard pumps on a multicontroler? if the latter which model(s) do you suggest

thanks for your input

[rvitko]

The small stream should work, it cannot be pulsed, the instructions allow for 24 off on cycles one hour apart on a standard timer. I think my preference would be for either 2 7210/2 or a kit TN05 or TF05. I think for cost and benefit considered I would go with 2 7210/2 pumps, the two single controllers will work almost as well as the multicontroller. To truly get all the features of the multicontroller you need at least four pumps.

[kelhuffman]

Hi Roger, well its mid-November so I'm just checking in to see if the limited edition Streams are still on time.

[rvitko]

This morning they were in Cologne awaiting export approval, in general it takes 4-5days from this point until they arrive. The first shipment will be smaller than anticipated so orders will be filled in the order recieved, a shortage of transformers for US 22V model pumps will mean that all orders won't be filled for two more weeks. This also means a shortage of 7400, 7410, 7100 and 3140 and 240 skimmers as all units require this transformer. Plenty of 6080 stream pumps will be available.

Roger

[kelhuffman]

Thanks Roger. I hope I was early enough on the Champion waiting list. Thanks again for all your candid input and updates. Certainly more info than most distributors for any industry are willing to share.

[rvitko]

The Stream pumps arrived today and have been shipped out to dealers. Hopefully the first people on the dealers lists should recieve their pumps next week.

[kelhuffman]

Woo Hoo!! as I say to myself "please be high on the list please be high on the list!"

Thanks for the update Roger.

[kelhuffman]

Hey Roger, Champion said they only received 4 stream pumps and unfortunately I didn't make it on that high on the list. Is that it until next year?

[rvitko]

No, they will trickle in every week until years end. Champion and Marine Depot and Premium Aquatics will recieve more units next week. As for local shops Preuss Pet in MI has some pumps as well. Until my quota is fillled I will continue to recieve pumps as they are produced. I am scheduled to get 14 more pumps next week and these will be split between these three suppliers. I would be persistent, I know you had to be amongst the first 6 and you should get your pumps this year. Even though I say be persistent also be polite, just ask how many customers are ahead of you. When it is all said and done we are getting a few more pumps this year than we had been originally promised so I think it shouldn't be a problem. Initially we were allotted 25 of each 6080, 6100, 6110, and we are now promised 35 6080, 39 6100 and 35 6110 of these 35 6080 have been delivered, 15 6100 and 15 6110. I am sorry it hasn't gone as smooth as I would like, be patient and you should recieve your pumps in not too long.

[kelhuffman]

patience? what's that? :) Thanks for the input and no need to apologize. I'm doing my best to manage my own expectations. It has actually come to the point where I really do need that extra flow so great news that more pumps are trickling in. I will certainly be persistent just in case. Thanks again.

[moonpod]

For Roger:

How many on/off cycles can a 6080 tolerate in a day? I seem to recall reading somewhere that you can turn 'em on/off hourly. Is this accurate? Thanks in advance.

[rvitko]

The details from the manual allow for the pump to be switched on and off as many as 24 times in 24 hours only with a simple timer and not by means of a wavemaker. The manual cautions that fish can enter the pump when it is off and be killed when it comes back on.

[kelhuffman]

Roger brings up a valid caution about the Stream....when running the stream or Turbelle 2002 external pumps on a Tunze powertimer, they never actually turn off. Therefore they never allow a fish the opportunity to go into the pump. HOWEVER, when they are turned off, e.g. when I click the "feed" button on the powertimer for whatever reason, fish can and will go into the pump. My large blenny immediately goes into my 2002, all the way through the impellor and sometimes down inside the intake screen. I have to watch carefully to make sure he's out before the pumps kick back in.

[rvitko]

I hope everyone has a happy and safe holiday, I am shutting down now but will probably check emails and posts over the long weekend. Thanks for your support and I am always happy to help.

[kelhuffman]

Hey Roger, hope your T'giving break was a good one. Has the latest stream shipment arrived yet? :)

[rvitko]

Came in Monday before sunrise went out Monday evening. More next week and in a surprise to everybody more the following week, all backorders may actually be filled by Christmas.

[kelhuffman]

sweet! Thanks for the update!

[moonpod]

Yay, just got mine, BUT still waiting for the acrylic bracket (3000_260) as otherwise the thing would be swinging around the middle of my tank. It's kinda bigger than I expected, but that's ok. Roger, if you're watching this thread, how long to get one of those things dropshipped to L.A.? It would be through Marine Depot. Thanks.