stn caused by 11 month old Ushio 250 MH's?

[surfjeepzx]

This one has me kinda perplexed. My 2 MH's are 11 months old the 17th of this month. For the last month my corals were starting to act a little strange. They were gradually lightening up and so I reviewed my bulb dates. I noted the VHO's were 2 months overdue so those were all changed that day and I thought that would have been the answer.

Some of the corals did perk up but the few that are in the direct center down beam of the MH's are still fading. I didn't want to think it, but I'm almost 90% sure now that the MH's are causing some of my acros to start the stn process. I have a rather large atlantic blue tip and a german orange digitata that are going downhill staedily. All other acros that are off to the sides and/or down deeper seem to be doing good. Some are still growing. For instance I have an emerald green echinada that's seems unphased it is about 12"'s deeper and almost centered under the MH. I have one acro that was growing and tabling out like mad which now sends streamers off the ends each time the MH comes on.

As an experiment I didn't turn the MH's on for a day and it didn't send streamers which is why I believe the MH's are the culprit. I've ordered new bulbs and they should be here next week. So for now I've reduced the MH cycle to 1 hr just to give the corals that aren't effected some light. Yet by the time the bulbs get here I'm thinking the few corals that are weirding out may be done? I'll see.

Everything else in the tank parameter wise is perfect and has been. Just for general purpose I changed the flow pattern in the tank today to see if that makes a difference.

Has anyone ever had there MH's change spectrum to the point they started stressing out their acros?

[J. Montgomery]

You think that old metal halide bulbs are causing your corals to STN? So your solution is to not turn on the bulbs? . . . uummm, I'm not buying that theory.

IME, old bulbs cause corals to turn brown as they produce more zooxanthellae to compensate for the decreased light.

[surfjeepzx]

That was my thought too, That's what has me miffed. I can tell you that in just the short hour since I redirected my recirc pumps the tank has taken a definite turn. The stremer coral I mentioned is no longer spewing. None of the corals get a direct blast it's all indirect flow. Yet I still think the MH bulbs have something to do with it.

Also, I'm not turning the lights off, I just reduced the photoperiod from 5 hrs to 1 hr to see if it made a difference...and it did.. so

[surfjeepzx]

I also think that the 2 month overdue VHO's which I used to run 11 hrs could have set the wheels of stress in motion. Now I have new VHO's and the corals are reacting.. even though I reduced the light schedule on them from 10 to 8 hrs.

Typically my VHO's would run from 11am - 9 pm. The MH's one comes on at 12 off at 5... the other on at 3 off at 8. So I may be jumping the gun and blaming the MH's when it was the VHO's that caused the stress?

I'm focused on the lighting because my tank maintenance is spot on. That's why I'm not going to spend time speculating about parameters. I know I was overdue on the VHO's, (my mistake) I have a newborn at home and I've been preoccupied if you can imagine.

So once I discovered my oversight I corrected that day by R&R'ing the bulbs.. all 4. I took some pics let me see if I can load em.

[surfjeepzx]

This coral for instance had a dark brown base and deep purple tips. Now it has turned light brown. If you notice the encrusted part on the rock is still brown. That part is shaded.

Rats, my little girl is starting to toss and turn... she just had her 2 month shots today so I have to get her some formula and her tylenol. I'll try to get back shortly.
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s301/surfjeepzx/P9110088.jpg

[Fishbulb2]

I see you use natural sea water for your tank. Any chance it's something in the water recently? Here in Cali many people do the same. If we get a red tide bloom it can really effect your tank. I don't know, just something to consider.
FB

[surfjeepzx]

I considered that too. I'm very selective when i collect. When I started noticing the difference I thought maybe the water needed changing. So I did a 100 gallon change over the course of 2 days. The water was pristine and clean. No doubt the water wasn't the cause.

[surfjeepzx]

Bear with me, I'm trying to make a post and occupy my baby daughter at the same time. The second she hears the keyboard typing she starts to fuss. :-)
Here's the whole shabang.

I pulled out my notes and found that I redirected the recirc pumps about 2 months ago. I wouldn't have thought that the flow change may have caused this but it well may have, That coupled with the VHO's fading out and changing spectrum. It could have been a combo effect slowly. And now that I try to amuse my little girl by standing in front of the tank I need to make sure everything is up to par. I don't want to start her off with the wrong ipression of what the tank should look like at 2 months old. :-)
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s301/surfjeepzx/P9110076.jpg

[surfjeepzx]

Very interesting observation in the past 2 hrs. Since placing the 2 modded maxis back to the same direction they were 2 months ago my neon green nepthia has sprang to life. I'm very interested to watch the other corals and see how they react. Maybe it's not the MH? Hmmm, well I'm going to quit worrying about it and see how it turns out.

I do have new lamps coming and they'll get changed regardless. Well here's the rest of the pics I had. My camera doesn't take the best quality.

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s301/surfjeepzx/P9110078.jpghttp://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s301/surfjeepzx/P9110085.jpghttp://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s301/surfjeepzx/P9110084.jpghttp://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s301/surfjeepzx/P9110079.jpghttp://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s301/surfjeepzx/P9110083.jpghttp://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s301/surfjeepzx/P9110083.jpg

[manderx]

ushio10K is a workhorse bulb. back in the day people ran those 2-3+ years without even thinking about swapping them out. when you say the vhos were overdue, what's your normal schedule? 6 months, 8 months? i've seen people use the same vhos for 2+ years without issue (other than they were dim and basically the same as not even being on).

so i bet it's the flow. it might appear to be the light, but it's probably a combination of getting light, therefore having to 'work' and do the whole photosynthesis thing, and not having enough flow to let the coral 'breathe' while it's working. without the lights, the coral can relax and doesn't need to breathe as hard, so the lower flow is enough to keep it happy.

[surfjeepzx]

That sounds logical. My scheduled change on the VHO's is six months. They were due right when my daughter was born so that's my excuse :-) and I'm sticking to it.

It kinda slipped my mind.

Since I made the flow adjustment last night I can tell the difference. Not in the acros but in 2 corals that are typically my tattle tales. I have a neon green nepthia that has shown a marked improvement and a tongue coral on the bottom of the tank that I've never seen so extended. So I guess that the flow pattern they had was the culprit.

I'll keep watching the progress and see what happens with the acros.

[hahnmeister]

Yeah, I have seen people run Ushio 10,000Ks for 3 years... bulletproof bulb IME. Not the strongest performer for a 10,000K, but it has more actinic than any other bulb on the market.

[kysard1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10752106#post10752106 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hahnmeister
Yeah, I have seen people run Ushio 10,000Ks for 3 years... bulletproof bulb IME. Not the strongest performer for a 10,000K, but it has more actinic than any other bulb on the market.

perfect bulb if it didn't have a peak of orange-yellow at 575 nm

[surfjeepzx]

Update as of 7-14. Yesterday and today I was fiddling in the tank. Checking parameters, cleaning the acrylic, wondering what the heck is up with the tank. The aiming of the powerheads has seemed to help somewhat but I noticed something alarming.

For some reason I caught sight of many small light brown starfish on the rocks and near corals. I've seen these in the tank from time to time and typically remove them. For whatever reason there seemed to be many more yesterday and a few more showing up today. Yesterday I removed about 15 and today about 10 that were easy to reach. Now I ave an eye for them and have noticed them in the rockwork.

Today I also started removing portions of a couple corals that were obviously dead. I fragged off the dead parts and placed them back in the tank. I'm catching these early so I'm not in danger of losing the whole colony but it does stink that I even have to do that.

I called my aquarium expert and was discussing the situation with him. He's been very helpful to this point in reassuring me that it has to be something I'm not seeing as he's familiar with my tank. He asked if I had seen any STARFISH!! I thought ahhhhhhhhhhh!!! I told him what I found and removed but that I hadn't found them "on" any of the corals but some were at the bases of a couple corals. He said they were most likely the culprit as they attack the corals at night. They crawl up to the base and start eating the tissue which in turn infects the coral and starts the death "STN" process.

So tomorrow I'm going on a starfish killing expedition. He also said I need to remove any coral that's showing signs of stn around the base and remove that section or the coral will die. So guess what else I'm doing tomorrow. I have 2 corals that I need to removed and "shorten".

I really hope that's the problem. To me that seems easy as the starfish are slow movers and now that I know what to look for I can eradicate them. He also said he'll order me a couple harlequin shrimp to help find the ones I miss.

Also my bulbs just arrived so I'll get them Monday and store em for later as it seems the bulbs were not the problem.

Oh well, a day in the life of a reef tank.

[surfjeepzx]

So now I've been focusing on the Starish population in my tank. I'm now using my siphon tube to pic off many of the little guys on the rockwork. I've definitely put a major dent in the population that are in view. I'll be ordering a Harlequin Shrimp this week too. Besides being an awsome looking critter to add he should be able to pick through places in the tank to get the little ones I can't see hiding.

So tomorrow when I pick up my new bulbs I'll make the order. The tank is looking much better in a few days since I redirected the powerheads. I think the trimming of the few corals has headed off any further problems there and removing a good 25-30 starfish has also made a difference.

Each morning i get up now I'm ready with the siphon to suck em off the rockwork. They come off pretty easy with a slight nudge of the tube. I had my nephew doing some spotting for me this morning too. I showed him what one looked like and he started pointing em out to me, kid catches on quik.

[mr_o98]

I'm not sure on the name of those starfish, but they are helpful. I have probably about 100 in my tank with no signs of coral damage. They mainly eat algae and detritus. At any given time I can count 10-20 on my glass.
As for the Harlequin shrimp, it will tear thru your starfish in less than a week. After that they require feedings of large starfish (linkia, sand sifting), which can become very expensive. IMO, a harlequin shrimp is not worth picking up unless you are going to commit to keeping it for the rest of its natural life.

[Fishbulb2]

Go buy 1 harlequin shrimp and you'll have no more starfish within days. They will get eaten fast and you'll be rid of them. I would then keep the harlequin for a few months by feeding him chocolate chip starfish just to keep him around. He will eat any straggling starfish that hang around. You will have no problem reselling a harlequin.

[surfjeepzx]

I've discovered 2 types of starfish in my tank.

The first type is light brown with a darker center portion. These I've had for years and never noticed them doing any harm. They reproduce by splitting as do all starfish. I don't think these are the problem. They get about the size of a dime.

The other type I discovered while inspecting the rockwork is a small whitish type with a semi-dark center. These are about the size of a pencil eraser or slightly less. I never saw these in the tank before. This is the bad starfish I believe. I have found them at the base edge of coral growth and can see where they've effected the corals. They leave a small dead spot on the corals base. Once I discovered one I started looking for more and found they're small and able to hide very well.

My local expert informed me that I should look for these and it wasn't until he mentioned it that I really started to look. So in an attempt to control or get rid of these the other starfish will have to suffer the consequences too. I don't think I'll really miss either of them. I don't know how long they've been in the tank but it seems that they're starting to make themselves known.

I'll let the shrimp do it's thing and when his job is complete I'll decide at that point whether to keep it or trade it for something else. I've invested too much in corals to have them eaten and infected by these little starfish. Now that I know what to look for and how to handle it, much of the frustration of what was wrong is behind me.