Aquasurf your Vortech, the DIY

[Giovanni]

In this DIY, I interface the Neptune Aquasurf (http://www.neptunesys.com/modules.htm#AQUASURF) with the Vortech. This will allow the vortech speed to be varied similar to the way it does the tunze pumps. Most all modifications are done to the Vortech with exception of changing a connector plug on one end of the aquasurf cable. The parts cost $8.27 and it takes about 1.5 hours to complete your first one.

Theory:

The vortech provides 12volts to power the aquasurf and provides a return signal voltage that it varies to control pump speed. So there are three wires connecting the aquasurf to the vortech. The aquasurf sends a signal voltage to the Vortech to control the pump speed. It varies the voltage from 0 volts to about 11 volts. The processor on the vortech driver is designed to handle 0volts to 5volts. I use a small potentiometer to bias the signal output voltage of the aquasurf to match the signal input voltage of the vortech. I could use a couple of resistors but they tend to be inaccurate and the POT allows me to fine tune the voltage. I use a 1/8” stereo phone plug and jack to make the connection between the two. That is it very simple.

Limitations:

There are a few limitations to this DIY. The first is obvious.

First, you must realize that if you mod your vortech driver, the warranty is void. If you mess it up, do not send it back, they will not warranty it. I know no one would do this but it would not be honest to withhold information that you attempted the DIY and say it just quit. They will be able to look at the board and tell it has been done anyway. If you damage your driver, you might just ask someone who is trading their driver in for the $50 WWD rebate to sell you it instead for the $50.

The Second is that the vortech pump speed cannot be stopped completely. It will slow to its lowest setting, which is very slow. You can almost count the revolutions. I am not sure I will be able to fix this in the future. If Echotech marine decides to support this DIY and starts doing them their self, they will be able to reprogram the vortech driver and make it stop completely.

The third is related to the voltage use to manipulate the speed of the motor. I call this voltage the signal voltage. At times in the videos I may interchange the term signal with sensor, but they are the same thing. Assuming we have done the DIY and the signal voltage has been biased, the Aquasurf uses 0 volts as pump off (lowest intensity/pump speed) and 5 volts as the highest intensity/ pump speed. The vortech is just the opposite. When it sees 5 volts it sets pump speed low and when it sees 0 volts it sets pump speed high. There are several ways to deal with this electronically. One would be to build an inverting op amp circuit. Another might be and inverting EEPOT. The way I chose to deal with it in the Aquasurf program. I assume off is on and on is off. I also assume that the max intensity setting is the minimal and vise versa. This works but can be confusing. I chose to do it this way because it requires the least expensive, does not add complexity to the circuit. Later I will investigate other electronic options. For now I wanted to prove this interface was possible.

The fourth limitation is related to removing the vortech’s speed pot form the circuit. You will not remove it from the board just disconnect it from the circuit. With the POT removed from the circuit, if the aquasurf is not connected the vortech goes to high speed. I can remedy this with a DPST relay like I used in the last DIY. I have not done this in this first installment of the DIY but will do it later. I don’t plan on using my vortech without the aquasurf for a while.

Methods and Materials:

Parts:
1. Screwdriver
2. Soldering iron
3. Solder (small diameter)
4. X-Acto knife or small flexible blade.
5. 1/8" Stereo Phone Plug (2-Pack), Radio Shack Catalog #: 274-284, $3.99
6. 1/8" Stereo Panel-Mount Phone Jack, Catalog #: 274-246, $2.99
7. 100K-Ohm Horizontal-Style Trimmer (POT), Catalog #: 271-284, $1.29
8. Short length of small wire.
9. Aquasurf
10. Vortech

Let me suggest that if any step of this seem to difficult, that you take the driver to an electronic repair shop and they can do it in just a few minutes for little to no cost.

In this DIY I assume you have reviewed my first vortech DIY (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1203099) so I omit some of the simple step to save file size. One such omission is the opening of the vortech drive case and removal of the driver board. If you have any question about how to do something that seems omitted check the first DIY. If that does not clear it up please post your question here. I decided to do demonstrate this DIY with videos on you tube.


There are eight videos that show how to do the DIY and one showing it in action.

In the fist video I am demonstrating that this DIY really does work. I taped the Aquasurf and the vortech driver to the tank for the demonstration.

Aquasurf your Vortech DIY, in Action (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QiByRcFeRw)


1. In this video I show how to put the cable ends on the aquasurf cable. Red wire = ground and goes to the base. Yellow wire = 12volt power and goes to the tip. Black = signal and goes to the middle.

Putting the Phone Plug on the Aquasurf Cable (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkU4zMHf7vg)


2. This step is the most difficult. I lift the signal pin of the processor off the driver board. This keeps us from having to remove the big POT. I could have simple scrapped the trace on the circuit board to break the connection. I was worried about have a good place to solder a wire on though. This way I can just attach a wire straight to the processor. Do not bend the pin on the processor up to much, just enough to get the knife under it. You will break it off is you do. If you are not sure you can do it get help. It is not hard but requires a good eyes and some skill. This was my first time doing it! I cannot imagine it would cost more than $5 to have it done at a repair shop if you do not want to do it yourself.

Lifting the signal Pin on the processor. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDy3AQWvdGk)


3. Here I install the phone jack. Simple but requires you to drill a 1/4 inch hole.

Phone Jack Installation. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CJuLE34sOY)


4. In this step I install the 100K POT between the phone jack and ground.

100K POT installation (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkaCVIoF4_0)


5. Here I connect the wiper pin of the POT to the signal pin with a short wire.

Connecting the Signal Wire (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-d252LpbusA)


6. Here I connect the wire that gives me Ground for the 12 volts out.

Getting Ground for the 12volts (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhJWKwxLK-8)


7. In this short clip I show were to get a positive 12volts for the aquasurf.

Getting 12 Volts Positive (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoqN9LF_gzs)


8. In this the last step before putting the lid back on the driver case I calibrating the Signal for 5 volts peak. This requires you to create a timer in your aqaucontroller on one channel E1 and set that timer to off. You must connect the aqaucontroller to the aquasurf with the control cable and connect the aquasurf to the vortech. Very important is to only apply power to the Vortech after all connections are made between the vortech and aquasurf. If you plug the phone jack in the aquasurf with power to the vortech, the aquasurf may be damaged.

Calibrating the Signal for 5 volts peak (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRCDZQYvhSc)


That is it. Put the case back on the vortech and go play. If the power goes out and you have BB to the vortech, the aquasurf keeps its program and keeps working. Even if the aquacontroller is off. If the videos pictures are not clear enough and anyone needs a photo of a particular area, just ask.

Please ask questions and let me know what you think.

[snulma1]

Wow, great write up!

[jnarowe]

yes, nicely done.

[Giovanni]

Gee thanks fellas.

I have both my pumps on the aquasurf since last night. One major benefit I have noticed is increased random turbulent flow to the top of the tank with less flow at the bottom for clams and softies. It also does not stir up the sand as much on the higher settings.

I attribute this to faster switching times and less laminar flow. I have mine set for a low turbulent night mode and a very turbulent day flow. I have 4 second switching times on nights and 1.7 seconds on days. If the pumps cycle even as fast 1 minute on/off the laminar flow get going in a big circle from top to bottom in a clockwise or counter clockwise direction. Forget about 5 -10 minute cycle times. With the fast switching times this circulation pattern never gets going.

You should see my milliporas on high. They love the turbulent flow extending their polyps fully. I cannot wait to see how this new flow affects the grow patterns.When I had to go from 5 minutes switching times to 30 minute and then to on all the time, my milliporas branches started growing long and thin. One of them is even about to grow out of the water. Maybe I should frag it back to the thick part?

[jnarowe]

no real reason not to frag it back right?

[Giovanni]

News flash....

If you do this MOD.

MAKE SURE YOU DO NOT UNPLUG THE CABLE BETWEEN THE AQUASURF AND THE VORTECH WITH POWER TO THE VORTECH. YOU WILL FRY HALF THE AQUASURF. Dont ask how I know. LOL

I am investigating a fix to prevent this. The most obvious is to use a different connector than the stereo plug. Any suggestion are welcome.

[jnarowe]

ouch.

[Giovanni]

It is part of the risk when you are working on something like this. There are little LED for each of the channels indicating its state. They still work so it is not totally fried. I will send it to Curt for repair. Thing is, I will be a common vortech user while it is gone. :lol:

[jnarowe]

well, I am glad you are taking the risk for the rest of us. :)

[Giovanni]

Good news, looks like it is a $1.84 part that needs replacing in the Aquasurf that I can order from Mouser and replace my self. I will get several.

[MarkS]

What microcontroller is that?

[Giovanni]

It is just a little quad op amp.

[MarkS]

A 28-pin op amp?

[mcegelsk]

Giovanni,

Great write up. I'm not sure if it would be a wise idea to go to full stop on the Vortechs. The reason being is this (unless immediately started up again) would leave the pump open to tank creatures getting into the wet side frame due to its open mouth design. I'm not sure about you but I'm not all that fond of pureed or blended goby or newly hosting clown (pick your small critter).

~Matt

[Giovanni]

Matt,

Thanks for the comps.

In my case where I was turning the pumps on and off every 30 minutes before the DIY, it was emerald green crabs 2, vortech 2. My rock work was close to the pumps. I also have several with busted claws and missing leggs but they still eat and crawl around or it would be Grabs 0, Vortech 4. :lol:

The aquasurf actually address this issue by giving a small pulse every couple of seconds to keep the critters away.

[jnarowe]

For me, there is just no reaon for a full stop unless I am going to swap out wet ends. For that task, it's always possible just to unplug them.

[Giovanni]

In smaller tanks, it would be nice to have that 10% of speed down to 0%. I know kysard1 would like it. Also if you are interested in waves in small tanks, it may help. Personally I am not all fired up about standing waves. Just adjustable random turbulent flow with short cycle times.

On another note. I have decided to change the connector. I will exit the vortech with a short piece of wire terminated with a DIN5. This will eliminate the possibility of blowing the op amp and it will mate up with the connector that is already on the aquasurf and the 7095/7091. They just do not sell them at Radio Shack so many will have to find an online source or local electronics supply. I will have to drive 50 miles to find one or order it with my op amp replacement.

[Giovanni]

MarkS,

I thought you were talking about the op amp I blew on the aquasurf. LOL.
The proc. on the vortech is a Freescale MC68HC908MR8 Microcontroller. I did not blow that.

[elzool]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10777551#post10777551 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Giovanni
On another note. I have decided to change the connector. I will exit the vortech with a short piece of wire terminated with a DIN5. This will eliminate the possibility of blowing the op amp and it will mate up with the connector that is already on the aquasurf and the 7095/7091.
Woo-Hoo!!

With that DIN connection I can then hook one up to my Profilux controller too!

Now... I just need to purchase a Vortech... wonder if the mortgage *really* needs to be paid this month? :D

[Giovanni]

elzool,

Not so fast. I do not want to bust your bubble but there may be issues that need to be worked out. We would need to know if the Proflux works exactly the same as the 7095 as far as i/o voltages.

Yes, your mortgage definitely needs paying. You cannot take your tank with you if you live on the street. LOL

[elzool]

heh... guess a tank on the street won't be very easy to power either eh'?

I'm not ordering anything yet, but I would imagine if it works directly off of a 7095 it should work from my controller as they control Tunzes as well and allow min and max voltages to be set in the controller too.

[Giovanni]

Can you set min as 5 volts and max as 0volts?

[elzool]

I just checked and it appears I can set min and max between 0 and 10 or anywhere in between.

It's going to be a few months before I own a Vortech, so I'm very excited about this, but not rich enough to test it tomorrow. ;)

[Giovanni]

The real question is can you invert that. In other words. min 10 and max 0?

[elzool]

Ahh... that I didn't try. I don't know that I can, I will have look at it again this evening.

If not, I can request a change and see if it can be done.

[Giovanni]

Got the new op amp in this AM and the aquasurf is back up and controlling. I have also changed the connector on the Vortech to match the stock aquasurf one and the Tunze controller. Will post photos later.


elzool,

Did you try it yet.

[Giovanni]

Here is a photo of the vortech using the DIN 5 Female inline connector. This prevent the shorting of the op amp on the aquasurf. One other benefit is that you will not have to change the connectors on the aquasurf, just plug and wave.

The negative is that Radio Shack does not sell them so you will have to find a local electronic supply store to buy the cable and DIN 5 female. For wire I used some microphone cable with a wire shield. The shield I used for ground, red for power 12Volts and white signal.

Looking at this photo you can see how I wired the 50 pot in with the mic cable.

1 - The signal in (mic cable white wire 0-11 volts) to 50K POT
2- The opposite leg of the 50K POT to ground.
3- A short piece of wire connecting the wiper of the 50K POT to the signal in of the processor. When the POT is adjusted properly, the signal voltage will be biased to 0-5volts.
4- The mic cable red to 12volt positive on Vortech Regulator.
5- This is the signal in to the processor. The other end of #3.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q240/ICURN_photos/Aquasurf%20your%20Vortech/cable.jpg



I do not have a photo of the DIN 5 Female but that is easy enough.

Pin 1 - Signal (White mic wire)
Pin 2 - Ground (shield mic wire) make sure you do not connect this to the outside shield part of the connector.
Pin 5- 12 volts (red mic wire)

You can use any three lead wire you want for this. I just happen to have this laying around.

Here is a photo of the new installation.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q240/ICURN_photos/Aquasurf%20your%20Vortech/Din5.jpg

[elzool]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10798704#post10798704 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Giovanni
elzool,

Did you try it yet.

Tried it and it will not let me make that change. I will post in the Profilux forum about this and point them at your thread to see what they can do about that. :)

[Giovanni]

If they can make the OP invert you will only need a cable and no other electronics. Either way it is doable.

I am now working on an inverting circuit to make on/on and off/off instead of on/off and off/on for the vortech to aquasurf/7095. Its not really a big deal to fix in the program but I would like the vortech to work just like the tunze do.

[Giovanni]

Anyone want to send me a 7095 or 7091 for that DIY to Vortech?


The current DIY is working well and the pumps are running cool.

I am loving the ability to have a night mode.

[jnarowe]

sorry G, don't have those! :D

[Giovanni]

Here is a Video of some Wave Action.

Makin Waves (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNe7QgF8juk)

[JCTewks]

looks good giovanni...i wish i had some sort of electronic skill :)

[jnarowe]

Very nice Giovanni. I am green with envy! :D

[Giovanni]

Thanks for the compliments.

JCTewks,

This is actually a very easy DIY.

[JCTewks]

well, i prob need the vortech's, the aquasurf, and a tank big enough to do it in too :lol::lol::lol:

anybody got spares laying around :lol:

[Giovanni]

:lol: Now I see yur current tanks....

[Sparkss]

Grrr, Double Post, sorry :(

[Sparkss]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10810412#post10810412 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Giovanni
I am loving the ability to have a night mode.

Great DIY thread overall, and I definitley like the idea of having a night mode. The one thing I would like to see is a way to bypass the Vortec drivers completely, as to me it seems that those are the weakest link (responsible for stalls, flow irregularities, etc), but I see where your DIY derives it's ease from re-using as much as possible from the Vortecs :)

What freqency and setting did you use for that wave in your tank ? did you calculate anything based on length ? or just play around with frequency until you found one that produced a "clean" wave ?


As for the reefer with the profilux controller, those are not exactly cheap either :), but it will be interesting to see if they can modify their code to accomodate the inverse voltage signal :)

[elzool]

According to Profilux the hardware can handle the voltage signal.

I am going to recheck to make sure it wasn't just me being dense that made it not allow the 10 and 0 before. If it still doesn't allow it I'll let them know and ask for it to be changed. By the time it is changed I may be able to purchase a Vortech too. :)

[Giovanni]

Sparkss,

ETM spent a lot of time making this driver work. There is a reason I used it besides convince. There are plenty of stepper motor drivers out there that will handle an 8 lead stepper motor I am just not sure they would work any better.

Almost forgot. There are setting for tank length in the aquasurf manual. I used them as a starting point and found they were only about one tenth off. My setting are a second off. 6 tenths on and 7 tenths on.

[Giovanni]

elzool,

Let me know. Also you need to be able to limit it to 5 volts if possible. If not it is no big deal, just way more convenient.

[Giovanni]

It has been 10 days and still working like a champ. Who will be next? LOL

[dgiesecke]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10838503#post10838503 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Giovanni
It has been 10 days and still working like a champ. Who will be next? LOL

After finding this thread - I ordered my vortechs over the weekend, and they shipped yesterday.. so it won't be long :D

Thank you ! and keep us posted.
Darryl

[Giovanni]

Darryl,

That is cool. I look forward to a report! Do you have your Aquasurf on order yet? You may have to call around a bit. Another person told me they had to order the aquasurf from reefgeek.



For everyone else,

The pumps will stop shipping with the old drivers soon and the price will go up to $425. They will only be shipping with the WWD, so if you want to buy new pumps and DIY them you need to order from someone who has them in stock at the $350 price with the old driver.

[dgiesecke]

I have not ordered my aquasurf yet, but will. I just needed to take a little time to let the "sting" of the vortech purchase subside ;) What makes matters worse, a member of my local club just posted 2 vortechs in our forsale forum today which are near-new for $550, thats $143 cheaper than I got mine - that was my Aquasurf !! dang-it.

A couple of questions:
Is the drivers and pumps running cool?
When you say the motor is osc down - its hardly has any output. Is the output @ vortechs lowest setting (300gph) or do you think its more or less?
I plan to plug my vortechs into a UPS, How will they react if I loss power to everything else - including the aquasurf?

Sorry for the questions, I just want to get my ducks lined up

Thanks for your help
Darryl

[Giovanni]

1. Yes they run cool, as cool as they did before.

2. That would be at the lowest setting of 300gph. I cannot make them go any slower at the moment.


3. How they act depends on how you program the aquacontroller. The aquasurf gets power from the vortech driver and will keep working in the last mode programed as long as one of the vortechs connected has power. If power is lost and then restored without the aquacontroller, all pumps will come on at half speed until the aquacontroller resends the mode commands. If you keep power to the aquacontroller, you can change the mode of the pumps to something that uses less current and make the UPS or battery backup last even longer. With this DIY you have the FULL flexibility of the Acquacontroller to make your system work any way you want.

I have my vortechs power plugged into one of my DC8 ports so I can shut the power off completely in case of a power failure. I then turn one back on the lowest speed setting for 5 minutes then the other one on for 5 minutes and repeat in 30 minutes. The makes the battery back up last a very long time. I also have my 1262 on for sump circulation that keep a little current going in the tank all the time.

The aqaucontroller/aquasurf is the only way to have this flexibility. With possible exception of the profilux in the future.


BTW, Don't apologize for the questions. I am very happy to answer any question and will give it to you straight. Note that I posted the limitations of the DIY up front. Also if you look at my first Vortech DIY I was quick to make changes in response to concerns.

Keep it coming!

[dgiesecke]

Giovanni - first thanks for the quick response....
I did find your other thread on DIYing the vortech, and now I have a better understanding of the history of this mod. All I have to say is this is "freaken awsome". As soon as I get my aquasurf, my drivers are getting modded :cool:

I will continue to follow this thread, and will give you a report on mine when I get it done.

Please keep us updated

Thanks,
Darryl

[Giovanni]

Darryl,

Thanks for the compliment. Mine continue to keep running great on the aquasurf. I love the flexibility and controllability and know you will also.

When you get started, if you have any questions just shoot me your questions or email me and I will give you my number for old fashioned voice comms.

[dgiesecke]

Ok,
The Vortechs are in my hand now... I also emailed Curt @ Neptune and asked if the Aquasurf was in stock (they have them). Ordered my Aquasurf today and should be here sometime next week :D

Now:
What gauge wire are you using?
What version is you aquacontrollers firmware?
What is the placements of your pumps- are they off set, or straight across for each other?

I am not wanting to make a wave, but rather more of a random flow (I want to kill any possiblity of dead spots)

and most importantly - hows it running?

Thanks
Darryl

[Giovanni]

Darryl,

The gauge of wire make no difference. I would go get some microphone wire and use it.

I am using www.neptunesys.com/aqua3_8C07_3.3.zip Firmware.

My pumps are straight across from one another. I notice with the rapid high low they will not suck in air as easy, so I moved mine up closer to the water line.

Yes I am like you, I do not care that much about the standing wave as I do the random flow.

Things are still running like a top. No problems.


Giovanni

[melev]

This thread has been nominated for Thread of the Month:
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=10870634#post10870634

[Giovanni]

melev,

That is great, thanks for the nomination.


Darryl,

Did you get everything in yet?

Mine are still working great and after three weeks of random flow, I can tell a difference in the way my fastest growing corals are growing.

I really like the ability to have the night mode and the way I can cycle through the different modes throughout the day. I have 30 minutes of really chaotic flow followed by 1 hour of gentle flow to simulate an afternoon storm.

[jnarowe]

That is way cool. Are you able to post your code for the AquaSurf?

[Sparkss]

The night mode and ability to have more control over your flow patterns is really fantastic. We, as most of us reefers, were excited about the original Vortec controller design plans that included the ability to randomize the flow patterns to include surges, waves, chaotic and mild flows, all at different times during the day from the same set of pumps. You seem to have achieved that :).

[RGRDGR]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10838897#post10838897 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Giovanni
Darryl,

That is cool. I look forward to a report! Do you have your Aquasurf on order yet? You may have to call around a bit. Another person told me they had to order the aquasurf from reefgeek.



For everyone else,

The pumps will stop shipping with the old drivers soon and the price will go up to $425. They will only be shipping with the WWD, so if you want to buy new pumps and DIY them you need to order from someone who has them in stock at the $350 price with the old driver.

I plan on buying another vortec for my new tank but i was going to wait. im just starting on the build, are you saying that if I wait too long the new vortec wont work with your mod.?

[RGRDGR]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10838897#post10838897 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Giovanni
Darryl,

That is cool. I look forward to a report! Do you have your Aquasurf on order yet? You may have to call around a bit. Another person told me they had to order the aquasurf from reefgeek.



For everyone else,

The pumps will stop shipping with the old drivers soon and the price will go up to $425. They will only be shipping with the WWD, so if you want to buy new pumps and DIY them you need to order from someone who has them in stock at the $350 price with the old driver.

I plan on buying another vortec for my new tank but i was going to wait. im just starting on the build, are you saying that if I wait too long the new vortec wont work with your mod.?

[dgiesecke]

Giovanni, There was a disconnect @ Neptune. My order was take, but never invoiced. A quick email to Curt and the problem was resolved, and it looks like they are compensating me on the shipping too ( thats true customer support!) Neptune is Awesome.... Latest update on shipping shows I should have it Wednesday the 10th.

However, while I've been waiting I already upgraded my firmware.

Would you mine advertising your program setup so I can use it for a templete?


Thanks,
Darryl

[Giovanni]

RGRDGR,


That is exactly what I am saying. For some reason ETM is no longer going to sell the non wireless driver with the vortech and will raise the price $75 to $425 with the WWD. There will be no option for the old driver at the old price.

If enough people end up with the WWD want it to work with the Aquasurf, maybe I will DIY the wireless driver also? I have seen photos of the new wireless circuit board and think it can be done, so I guess we will see.

[Giovanni]

Jonathan and Darryl,

Remember that with this DIY one of the limitations is the negative or reverse logic of the program. So 0% in the program is actually 100% at the pump and 100% is 0%. Also if you tell the Aquacontroller to turn the pumps on it will set them to 0% and if you turn them off it will set them to 100%. By reversing the intensities, the off/on/off logic remains the same. Sound confusing now but in just a few minutes of playing with the program and watching your pumps, you get the hang of it real fast.

PF1, PF2 are my normal day modes and are on from sun up to sun down except when there is chaotic (storms or the calm).

My chaotic modes are PF5 and PF6. Notice that sync is off and that the OFF/on/off times make very random flow.

PF3,PF4 are my calm modes. They are used at night and after the chaotic time.


When I feed I turn the pump timers to off (the Aquacontroller will say on but remember on is off with this DIY) and this brings them to the slowest speed and still keep the battery backup form coming on.

VPP is a port on my DC8 that the main power of both pumps is connected to. If I want to shut the pumps off completely I can do this simply by turning VPP OFF. No need to unplug them unless you have the BB. I am going to make up a cord with a 110V normally closed relay to disconnect the BB when there is AC to the tank. Now it will be totally automated even the BB. If there is a power failure, the relay will go to the normally closed state and the BB will function normally.



Pmp MODE sD for PF1
Pmp Int 085/000 for PF1
Pmp OSC 12/12/00 for PF1
Pmp MODE SD for PF2
Pmp Int 090/010 for PF2
Pmp OSC 00/12/12 for PF2
Pmp MODE sD for PF3
Pmp Int 090/040 for PF3
Pmp OSC 14/12/00 for PF3
Pmp MODE SD for PF4
Pmp Int 090/040 for PF4
Pmp OSC 00/12/14 for PF4
Pmp MODE sD for PF5
Pmp Int 040/000 for PF5
Pmp OSC 20/10/15 for PF5
Pmp MODE sD for PF6
Pmp Int 040/000 for PF6
Pmp OSC 16/21/11 for PF6
If Time > 00:00 Then VPP ON
If Time > 15:00 Then VPL PF1
If Time > 15:00 Then VPR PF2
If Time > 19:00 Then VPL PF5
If Time > 19:00 Then VPR PF6
If Time > 19:30 Then VPL PF3
If Time > 19:30 Then VPR PF4
If Time > 20:30 Then VPL PF1
If Time > 20:30 Then VPR PF2
If Time > 00:00 Then VPL PF3
If Time > 00:00 Then VPR PF4
If Time > 21:30 Then VPL PF3
If Time > 21:30 Then VPR PF4

[jnarowe]

looks good. that whole thing with the BB has given me problems in that I have to disconnect that to get the pumps to turn off. I guess the WWD will deal with that too?

Sherman just got a couple and they are quite hot. I am surprised since I was under the impression that my tank room temps. were what was causing the overheating. Are yours running hot too?

[Giovanni]

I have ordered a tunze 7091 to test the Vortech mod with. Should be here in a day or so and should only take a quick recalibration of the POT to get the correct 5 volts peak.

Giovanni

[dgiesecke]

Giovanni,

Just a quick update from me. Got my aquasurf today, and will try and get this mod up and running this weekend.

Questions are coming.....:spin2:

[Giovanni]

I work 12hr shifts an hour one way from home for the next 4 days. Forgive me if I am a little slow to respond. Do you have the DIN 5 female connectors yet. If not you need to get them before the weekend. Radio shack does not carry them. Here is the Mouser part # 164-2513 (http://www.mouser.com/search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=601-0500virtualkey10710000virtualkey164-2513) for them. No one in my small town had them in stock.

[dgiesecke]

I was waiting to get the aquasurf to physically look @ the connector. I believe it is the same as the old "AT" keyboard connector found on older motherboards. I work in electronics, so I'm going to snoop around work and see if I can find something. If not, I live in Dallas and we have some real good electronic stores here, so I should beable to find it locally.

Thanks for your help..

[Giovanni]

Great, no worries then. I never thought about the old keyboards. I think I have an old extension cable laying around I could rob a female end from.

[dgiesecke]

at to PS2 adapter,

http://www.yourcablestore.com/AT-to-PS2-Keyboard-Adapter-New_p_30-31.html

Looks right, I'll know tommorrow

[Giovanni]

Yes it does look correct. the pins are 180 degree spread with 45 degrees between each one and you have it. Good idea. Mine were like $3.70 ea. and shipping.

[Giovanni]

For those of you who wanted your aquacontroller to notify you if one of your vortechs stalled, I can do that now. Look for a new thread as soon as I get a few days off.

[RGRDGR]

Giovonni

Unless I missed a post someplace you started out with a "100k" pot soldered to one pin on the mic jack, then you removed the mic jack and replaced it with a din5 female connector, wired through a"50k" pot. Did I miss somthing? Plus is the pot now just sitting loose on the board?

Anyhow its a great mod and we all appreciate your efforts on our behalf, thanks a lot.
I went ahead with your advise and purchased another Aquatec plus the Aqua Surf to go with my ProIII so when I get my 225 going i'll be all set

[dgiesecke]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10947030#post10947030 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dgiesecke
at to PS2 adapter,

http://www.yourcablestore.com/AT-to-PS2-Keyboard-Adapter-New_p_30-31.html

Looks right, I'll know tommorrow


It's a match...:)

[Giovanni]

I got the Tunze 7091 and it worked and there is no recalibration needed. So the 7095 should work also.

[Giovanni]

RGRDGR,

If I said some place I started with a 100K pot it was a typo or I misspoke in a video. It is a 50K pot. Sorry for any confusion.

[dgiesecke]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10961226#post10961226 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Giovanni
RGRDGR,

If I said some place I started with a 100K pot it was a typo or I misspoke in a video. It is a 50K pot. Sorry for any confusion.

Now I'm confused.... On your parts list on page 1 the part number given for the pot is a 100k pot from radio shack, and the photo on page 2 shows a pot with 104 on it - which is a 100K pot.

Please confirm?

[Giovanni]

dgiesecke

It is late and I have been up since 0500. I misspoke yet again. :lol: It is a 100K pot and not a 50K pot, I repeat not a 50K pot. It really may not make that much difference anyway because we are only using it to bias the voltage seen by the processor on the driver.

RGRDGR

To answer your question about the pot just hanging out, if you look close, one leg is soldered to the big black resistor where it gets ground from. I will be doing a couple more pumps for some friends soon and can make more photos/ video if needed.



BTW I am still looking to buy old driver from those who get the WWD.

[dgiesecke]

OK,
I have one complete, and the only thing I need to do now is set the 5volts going to the signal wire.

Just need to double check this before I hook up the wire to the chip. Is the correct command to set this like this:

If time > 00:00 then VPL PF1
Pmp Int 100/100 for PF1


Thanks,
Darryl

[Giovanni]

Just go to the condition screen and set the pump to on. The voltage before the POT should be high like 11 volts. Set the voltage after the pot to 5 volts before you solder the wire to the processor. Then recheck it after you solder it to the processor. There will be a very slight drop to maybe 4.95 volts and this is ok.

[dgiesecke]

First off, everthing is wired but the wire to the processor...

When I set to manual off the voltage goes to .0008 volts
When I set to manual on the voltage goes to 5.00 volts

Red to the pot, black to the ground...

???

[dgiesecke]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10968869#post10968869 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dgiesecke
First off, everthing is wired but the wire to the processor...

When I set to manual off the voltage goes to .0008 volts
When I set to manual on the voltage goes to 5.00 volts

Red to the pot, black to the ground...

???

When I say red to pot, black to ground - I'm talking about my meter probes, not the wires. Is the voltage range you want 0 to 5 volt max?

[Giovanni]

If you are getting the 5 volts at the center pin on the pot then it sounds like you have it set correct. The on off logic will be reverse because 5 volts is off to tht vortech driver and 0 is full on. Solder it on and give it a go.


Giovanni

[dgiesecke]

Thats what I got.........:thumbsup: one down, one to go....

Thanks for your help Giovanni --- your the Man :dance:

[Giovanni]

You get the other one done? :D

[Giovanni]

Taking a little time tonight to have a look at the new Vortech driver before bed and a 5 am wake up call tomorrow.

It may be even easier to DIY than the original. Just have to figure out a few connection points as the new processor will not allow for lifting of the signal pad like the old one did. Also looks like the signal voltage is correct and not inverse on this driver.

I have to say that the new driver is very well built. A much more professional design. Two thumbs up to ETM for a nice board layout.

[ycnibrc]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10961207#post10961207 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Giovanni
I got the Tunze 7091 and it worked and there is no recalibration needed. So the 7095 should work also.

Have you post the instruction how to mod the 7095? I would like to try.

Thank you

[dgiesecke]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10971865#post10971865 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Giovanni
You get the other one done? :D

Only got one complete and running, trying to find time to do the other... My schedule is non-stop like yours right now.

I have just a couple of more questions and I should be up and running, and good to go.....

Are you hooking up the 12 volts on both drivers, or just one?
and What is a safe intensity (min-max)? is 100/000 ok, or should I stick with something like 090/010?

and can I play MP3's with it yet :spin2: j/k

Thanks,
Darryl

[Giovanni]

ycnibrc,

I have not posted it yet but it is very very similar. I have sent you a PM.

dgiesecke,

Sounds good. Fire a way with those questions. I am off for 7 days straight if I can avoid answering the phone at the wrong time.


For the daytime mode I have a 090/010 split.

[dgiesecke]

I had a sobering thought last night.... That is very concerning to me.

If for whatever reason something was to happen to my Aquasurf - a burnt resistor, chip goes bad, or what ever and the Aquasurf out right dies on me, both my Vortech's will goto full on in a 80 gallon Reef, with a sandbed. This would decimate my tank !!! On the first page of this mod you stated:

"The fourth limitation is related to removing the vortech’s speed pot form the circuit. You will not remove it from the board just disconnect it from the circuit. With the POT removed from the circuit, if the aquasurf is not connected the vortech goes to high speed. I can remedy this with a DPST relay like I used in the last DIY. I have not done this in this first installment of the DIY but will do it later. I don’t plan on using my vortech without the aquasurf for a while. "

Could you expand on this? I don't like jumping out of a plane without my parachute....

Thanks

[Giovanni]

If you mean while you get your aquasurf fixed. It is a simple matter of soldering a wire from the pot to the processor. If you mean in the short term, it very well might go wide open till you catch it. I have a 70RR with a sand bed and have had both my pumps wide open. It moves a little sand around but it is not the end of the world or my tank.

A friend of mine had a driver go bad long before this DIY. It had a bad POT and would intermittently go wide open. Electronics are not fool proof. :D

[Giovanni]

Forgot to answer the power question. The aquasurf will deal with the power coming from both drivers. Make all driver DIY mods the same.

[matt the fiddler]

Nice hack!


in the Analog control realm [I am a modular synth junkie] the official term is "control voltage" or CV, which would probably apply to your case. Since the oscillators on my modular runs +- 5 volts, I have thought about hooking it to my pumps to test it out...

[Giovanni]

Thanks for correcting my terminology. CV it is. As for your +- 5 volts, I am not sure how the processor will deal with that. Do you have Vortechs now? I do not see them on your list.

[radone]

So have you been able to run the Vortech from the Tunze 7091 or 7095?

Very interested in that if you did, would that be hijacking?

This thread rocks BTW :D

[Giovanni]

Thanks for the compliment. I am not sure what you mean by "would that be hijacking?"

Yes I tested it with a 7091 and worked without even recalibrating the signal voltage after it was set for the aquasurf. No modification is needed on the 709x. If one wanted to use the 7091 or 7095 the only difference in the DIY is how you calibrate the signal voltage.

Anthony

Here is how to do the calibration with the 709x.

At the point where you have the signal wire disconnected form the processor and are ready to calibrate, plug in the 709X and the vortech together. On the channel you plugged the vortech into, turn power 1 and power two all the way clockwise. Plug in the vortech drivers power without the pump being plugged into the vortech driver. Measure the signal voltage after the POT and adjust the POT for 5.00 volts in a similar fashion as I did on the video. Once you have that set, then unplug everything and solder the signal wire to the processor. You are done, go play. Just remember that full clockwise is low flow and full counterclockwise is high flow. The pulse setting works the same.

[radone]

Just didn't want to steer the thread of course since it was about the Vortech and not the Tunze

Is there a place to download the videos?

Thanks man this looks promising :cool:

[Giovanni]

Romeo,

All the videos for the major part of the DIY are on the first or second page. If you are asking about one for calibration of the Tunze controller, I have not made one as it is very similar to the Aquasurf. I will make one if enough people ask for one.

[matt the fiddler]

i have the tunze's i was thinking of DIYing a controller from scratch for them, but then the aquasurf came out... That is better than working with breadboards and solder... :)

[Giovanni]

Yes the aquasurf is a very well thought out piece of equipment.

[Giovanni]

Any one want to see the new WWD DIYed to work with the Aquasurf?

[rarelyseen]

oh ya!!!! i was just about to send a pm to you to see if you had done a wwd yet.

[sfsuphysics]

This should be interesting. Granted I don't know exactly how the WWD works without other drivers, but I speculate that it is constantly sending information to the other pumps what to do (as far as being in "sync" or "anti-sync"), and I'm sure there some extra circuitry that allows the ramping up/down of voltage supplied. So this being said a lot of the WWD is really wasted for "slave" units, no need to say which mode to go into, etc.

[Giovanni]

sfsuphysics,

The new WWD is a stand alone or slave driver that communicates via a "wireless" interface with other driver slaved to it. I personally do not have much use for the wireless part. Also while using it, with two drivers 2 foot apart they had some trouble communicating as evident by the frequent pulse timing variations in pulse mode. I also have a linksys wireless access point in the cabinet with the drivers. It has a great deal more power output in the same freq. range and may be a source of the problem. ETM says the range of these WWDs is 10" max and line of site.

The new DIY is much simpler and slicker (or is it more slick) than the one for the old driver, IMHO. I have made it very easy to go back to using the driver with the on board POT if you do not want to use it with the aquasurf for some reason. All part come from radioshack including the connector.

Thing is the documentation of the DIY is a lot of work. If only one or two people want to see it I most likely will not go to the trouble. Although I will post some photos and or take email form those one or two. I just need to know if there is enough interest to warrant taking the time.

[jnarowe]

You know I want to see it! :D

[Sparkss]

Does this DIY still have the inverse power curve that the previous one did ?

Looks like I may need to look into investing in a Profilux or higher end AC controller (to be able to use the AquaSurf).

I would also like to see the write up for this DIY. Thanks :)

[Giovanni]

Jonathan,
Some how I knew you would want to see it. LOL


Tom,

No it does not have the inverse power issue. Not a big deal either way though when using the aquasurf.

[sfsuphysics]

Giovanni, I'm with you on the wireless part, seems to me there really is no rhyme nor reason to have a wireless communication of something like this, and my point was that it almost seemed like a waste because you'd essentially be buying a controller with every pump you get. Now for a single pump no problem, however as you start adding more the additional costs start to sky rocket @ $75 per additional pump. Just thought it'd be neat to use the "controller" part of the WWD and some how wire it up to a non-wireless driver to do the same thing.

I too would like to see the aquasurf write-up. I went ahead and ordered a WWD for my vortech, but I'll be keeping the wired driver so if things change I'll have the flexibility to go wired.

[jnarowe]

I think it would be better in my situation to have a main controller and a bunch of individually tagged slaves.

[Giovanni]

I was hoping to use the constant speed mode and have slaves either synced or anti synced wirelessly using the Aquasurf to controller the master but ETM has made it so that when in constant speed mode the slave is in sync even if set to antisync.


Nest Question:

Do I need to start a new thread for the WWD DIY?

[melev]

No, I would just post it here, or at the very least put the link to the new thread in this one, so all subscribers get notification.

[Giovanni]

Marc,

I was thinking of starting a new one and posting a link as you say. I am worried that the new DIY will just be buried and hard to find for those who might come on this at a later date.

[SALT WATER CRAZ]

This is a cool DIY. Now I wish I didnt preordered the wwd.

[Giovanni]

Now that you did, might as well DIY them! :D

[todd rose]

I saw Goivanni's Aquasurf your Vortech, the DIY today in action. Incredibly simple and clean DIY. It gives the user control that the stock WWD lacks plus the ability to switch back to stock WWD control if you wish. I am in the process of diy'ing my WWD's as we speak. Don't wait just do it!

Todd

[Giovanni]

I have been working on the WWD DIY documentation and it is almost complete. It is even more simple than the DIY for the old driver and eliminates all but one of the old limitations and that is if you DIY it, you will void your warranty. :D

IMHO it makes this very good driver a great driver for those of us who want even more control. Best of all, it requires even fewer parts and all come from radio shack. I will be posting a new thread late tonight or Monday.

[JCTewks]

please make sure to post a link to the new thread :)

[Giovanni]

Here is a link to the new DIY as promised.

Aquasurf your Vortech WWD, the DIY (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1233800)

[Sparkss]

I am looking to do the DIY on an MP40 using the rj11 part of the WWD mod. I noticed that the WWD had a max voltage of 3.3v but the MP40 had one of 5v. Just to check myself, is that correct ?

Thanks :)

[Sparkss]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10947700#post10947700 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Giovanni
For those of you who wanted your aquacontroller to notify you if one of your vortechs stalled, I can do that now. Look for a new thread as soon as I get a few days off.

BTW, any status on this ? :)

[Giovanni]

.

[Giovanni]

Tom,

Yes the old driver has a control voltage of 5v and the new one is 3.3v. If you want to use RJ11 connectors on the old version you could just do the new DIY on the old driver but calibrate it for 5v and it should work just like it does for the WWD.

I have not worked on this because the I spent a bunch of free time working on the WWD DIY. Basically there is a circuit that detects when the red led is lit and triggers AC3 or ACJ digital input which can then try resetting the pump, shut it off and or set an alarm state. One could also use the power going to the LED to turn on a relay doing the same thing and thus eliminating the separate circuit. If you or several others get real fired up about it I will make a thread.

[jnarowe]

This is a huge issue IMO regarding the lack of feedback from the WWD. When I check on my system via web, AquaNotes, etc. I have no idea what is going on with the Vortech pumps. And I am going to have to do something about the WWD display. With just one going in my tank room, the blue flashing light makes me ill. Since I will have several of these on my system, I have to figure out a way to deal with the lights. Maybe just tape over them.

[melev]

If you don't like blue, you can have green, purple, or yellow. I kinda like the rainbow in my fishroom.

Taping over them will make it impossible to know if the driver is offline, other than staring at the impellars in the display.

[Giovanni]

Jonathan,

I have not figured out a way to do this on the WWD just the old driver.

As for the light on the WWD mine are always green because my AS is controlling them. If they are to bright, just put electrical tape over the bottom 3/4 of the little window.

[jnarowe]

The brightness is not the issue. It's the blinking that makes me nuts. (more nuts) Anyway, I'll have to do something about it. I guess I made so many assumptions about the Vortechs when doing my initial research, and one of them was that I envisioned a central station sending out wireless commands to the pumps. I never really even considered that they would get rolled out this way. So there is a bit of a vacuum (mostly in my head) in functionality IMO.

In other words, I had different expectations on how these were going to work and also assumed there would be some sort of software interface. Hopefully Eco-Tech will either produce a central unit running software or make a module to interface with other controllers/software. Because of the heat issue I am experiencing, I am only able to run them in variable speed modes like pulse, so I am not getting the full 3000+gph that I need. This has weighed heavily on my reef as many of you know, and I need to step up to more Vortechs to keep my turnover rate higher.

Sorry G...a little off-topic! :rolleyes:

[Giovanni]

I really do not know what to say. I have done my best to make these pumps more what you and others want. I guess you just need to make the transition to the WWD DIY and see if it help.

[jnarowe]

Well, what you have done is indeed intriguing. I am playing the wait-and-see game right now, but my reef cannot go much longer without more flow. My reef has been up for about 18 months with inadequate flow and I really have to do something about it, and I never considered that alternating pump speed could lower my net flow.

If, and this is a big IF, I can get an actual wave going, then I think that would negate the lower net flow. But really these pumps are not designed for a reef the size of mine, so even getting a wave of any kind to multiply flow will be very difficult.

[Giovanni]

How long and wide is your tank and how many pumps do you have?

[Sparkss]

well ours is 6.5' X 4' and with two pumps controlled (out of our 4 total) I cannot get a wave going. Due to the 4' width I am having trouble getting things going. What I did see is more of a "whirlpool", likely due to the two vortecs not being 100% arcoss from each other and the fact that the "wave" doesn't "bounce" but gets pushed off to the side a little. So in the middle of our tank I see a slight whirlpool. It may also just be that we haven't found the resonant frequency of our tank yet (but I still think that we aren't going to have much success with our 4' tank, not without more pumps maybe ?).

I am considering moving to have 2 pumps on one end to see what I can get going with that setup.

EDIT : Our tank has one Vortec on each end and 2 on the back wall.

[Giovanni]

I would also think that the pumps on the back are interfering with the wave. I have also found it difficult to tune the wave with the stock WWD. It is much easier with the AS. I bet you will really need two pumps on each end.

[jnarowe]

my tank is 8' x 5' x 35" and right now I only have 4 Vortechs, 2 on each end. I own 5 but one is in the shop.

[Sparkss]

You are probably right Giovanni, but that is another $800 that I just don't have to spend.

I will say that when I hooked up the 2 drivers to the AS I ended up with alot of particulate flying around, I am guessing from the turbulence created by the now more random flow. Oddly enough I also saw our ORP shoot up, but I suspect that of being a fouling of our ORP probe more than anything else.

[Giovanni]

Jonathan,

I would think that 3 on one end and two on the other would get you a wave if they all were working together. For sure 6 should do the trick.

Tom,

Just move the two on the back to the sides.

[jnarowe]

I am not as optimistic. I can barely feel the flow 3 feet from my Vortechs. But I certainly am willing to try. :D

Hey Tom, ORP probes usually foul down right? But if you saw a lot of particulate at the same time, that does seem strange.

[melev]

Why don't you reduce the pulses so they run longer at a high rate? Did you see the recent thread about setting Pulse mode? There's a glitch apparently and a way to program around it.

I don't think a wave is as important as random flow. If you have them in sync-mode running in Reefcrest mode or even in Pulse mode, the impact should create some havoc in the tank.

My corals seem quite happy now that the laminar flow has been broken up.

[jnarowe]

no, didn't see the thread...for some reason I don't get forum updates. got a link? And I really don't understand how to program the pulse length based on what I see in the instructions. It always seems to be the same to me.

[melev]

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1235768

[JCTewks]

jnarowe: You could always just use a couple of trolling motors with weed guards :lol::lol:

[Sparkss]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11092396#post11092396 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Giovanni
Just move the two on the back to the sides.

I actually thought about that. I am still not sure what the best way to go would be. The only thing about moving them though is that we cannot control 4 pumps with the AC Jr. We would need to mod the other 2 adn buy an AC III. That gets to be too pricey an option. Unless I somehow tie 2 vortecs together off of 1 control cable end each. the Jr just does not have enough programming space for the # of timers needed to run more than 2 pumps. (not and do anything else with the tank's control).

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11093823#post11093823 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jnarowe
Hey Tom, ORP probes usually foul down right? But if you saw a lot of particulate at the same time, that does seem strange.

Actually if I recall correctly they foul up. It was always commented as a good thing since when they foul they would shut off the ozone versus fouling down and causing the O3 to run more than needed (and possibly driving the true ORP too high and nuking a tank). Soaking hte probes in white vinegar for 5 - 10 mins was the cleaning regiment that I remember. Not really a major job to clean em. Once a month was the frequency, more or less (or when the probe ran too high and shut off the O3.. clean the probe to see if it was the probe or the tank :)).

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11093996#post11093996 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by melev
I don't think a wave is as important as random flow. If you have them in sync-mode running in Reefcrest mode or even in Pulse mode, the impact should create some havoc in the tank.

My corals seem quite happy now that the laminar flow has been broken up.

I agree but the wave is really more for us than the corals. The random "havok" would definitley benefit the corals as well. That was why we wanted to be able to program in a wave amongst the random flow patterns during the day, etc.

[jnarowe]

Marc: Thanks!! I needed that.

Jeff: Don't think that hasn't been considered. I am actually researching some alternative flow methods, and one is using a bow thruster. They are designed to be reversed back and forth easily and provide a LOT of flow. :)

Tom: Not so fast bro! :) A wave is not just for us. If you can achieve a true wave in your tank, then you multiply your flow, and that is very beneficial to your corals. A wave itself will generate flow.

If I could produce a wave in my tank, then I think there would be plenty of flow negating the inability to run at 100% 24/7. But, it's hard to quantify how much flow a wave is producing...maybe a problem for Luke to solve!

[Giovanni]

Tom,

You can run 4 with the AS. If two are on the same side, you can simply have the second one run the same program. It will only take 2 more lines of code to run the second two.

It would look something like this:

Pmp MODE sd for WA1
Pmp Int 000/100 for WA1
Pmp OSC 12/12/00 for WA1

Pmp MODE Sd for WA2
Pmp Int 000/100 for WA2
Pmp OSC 00/12/12 for WA2

If Time > 00:00 Then VP1 WA1
If Time > 00:00 Then VP2 WA1
If Time > 00:00 Then VP3 WA2
If Time > 00:00 Then VP4 WA2


WA = wave and VP = Vortech Pump

I have not tested this but it may be possible to use a y connector and run two pumps off one connection the way you can with Tunze pumps. That way it would not take any more code.

[Sparkss]

Jonathan,
Yes, I know the wave will be beneficial to the corals, but I recall reading in some documents or threads from Tunze about the wavebox that "A wavebox shuold not be your only method of flow". So there is something else that perhaps we are overlooking ?

Gionvanni,
It is not just about lines of code (although that is a limiting factor also). It is more so about the 12 timer limitation. We already had a DC8 that was 80% utilized and a DC4HD that was completely utilized. We had to eliminate one of our timers as it was to be able to define 2 of the pumps. We simply don't have anything else to remove to replace with a pump timer. Which was why I said we would have to double up on the cable ends. I should have been more clear about why. Thanks though :)

[jnarowe]

So here's a question: Let's say you do have a controller limitation like Tom is discussing. Can you not just use enough code to run a Master, and set the others to slaves in sync or anti-sync?

[Giovanni]

Double post. Seems the RC server is working rather slow these days.

[Giovanni]

Jonathan,

I answered that over in the WWD thread. In constant speed>slave mode there is only sync. Would be nice if Tim would fix that!

You would still need at least two pumps on the AS if you wanted different modes.

[Sparkss]

But that seems like it would work. If you set 2 pairs up in constant master/slave sync mode. Hook the AS to the master from each pair to control the wave/flow patterns. That would allow extending the # of pumps w/o needing to buy another controller (or for others to need to buy another AS to control more than 4 pumps).

As for our issue I think we have a solution. I have a spare AC Jr that I had up for sale. We got it from a tank buyout from another local reefer earlier this year. I can just use it for the wave control and relive the pressure from our current AC Jr, returing all of the timers and deleted statements to it. With an AC Jr for nothing but wave control that leaves 12 timers (lots of RND statements) and 40 statement lines to play with. I am probably going to see about setting that up later on today. It will also help with our current issue with the control cable length. The cable I made up (w/ cat 5) worked when I tested it (using the spare AC Jr and DC8), but when I plugged it into the control chain of our current AC Jr setup, it didn't pass the control signal to the AS. Using the separate AC Jr allows me to put the AS next to the AC Jr and use the stock cable they sent with the AS.

Now I just need to get our other 2 drivers modded to test that out :)

[Giovanni]

Tom

Using a spare ACjr for expansion it a great solution. Never thought of that. I have an expansion module on the way but that will not give me more lines of code or timers. I have seen those JRs for a very reasonable price also.


How are the two drivers I sent you working?

[Sparkss]

The 2 drivers are working great. I am on a business call at the moment, but once done I will be popping off to get your package back into the mail to you :)

About the AC Jr, yea.. alot of people buy the AC Jr+DC8 combos to get a good price on the DC8 in hopes of selling the AC Jr to recoup their money. So there are probably a couple of AC Jrs (w/o DC8s, etc) available cheap. Since we don't need a DC8 for this, only the AS unit, finding one of those cheap AC Jr's would be a good option for someone :)

[melev]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11095773#post11095773 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Sparkss
Jonathan,
Yes, I know the wave will be beneficial to the corals, but I recall reading in some documents or threads from Tunze about the wavebox that "A wavebox shuold not be your only method of flow". So there is something else that perhaps we are overlooking ?


The reason for this statement is because the wave lifts the detritus a few inches off the sand. The flow in the tank washes that detritus up and out via the overflows into the sump/skimmer/filtersock...

Which is why it would be nice to have a small wave on occasion, even if I just pushed "Wave" for a 2 minute event, when I'm in the mood.

That option isn't possible, but everyone go their stupid feed mode. :lol:

[Sparkss]

But what about the return pumps themselves ? Our pump pushes 2k give or take with the returns at the front corners (pointed down towards the bottom center of the tank) and the overflows at the back. With a 4' wide tank (from front to back) would you think that would be enough, when combined with a wave ?

Or more specifically, do you think that we should move the two pumps off of the back of the tank and double up the pumps on the sides ? (for 2 on each end, left and right). The tank is 6.5' long.

Thanks for your opinion :)

[melev]

I really can't tell you how to orient your pumps from here. It comes down to rockwork placement, types of corals (some can handle more flow than others), and of course your overall goal with the tank.

A pump that moves 2000gph from the sump should be okay, but honestly mine is moving around 3000gph into my reef and it still doesn't make detritus magically move up and out of the reef. My return pump is a Little Giant, rated 3560 at 5'.

[Sparkss]

we use a reeflo Dart Plus (basically the old 4200, IIRC).

Well, even with the pumps on the ends we could do a wave in the afternoon, more chaotic flow in the late morning and early evening hours and more gentle flow during the evening. That should give us the best of all. I just don't know what impact (creating dead spots, etc) moving the pumps off of the back wall will have. I guess the only way to really know is to move them and watch the coral polyps for movement/flow patterns. *Sigh*

[Giovanni]

The way that a wavebox make a wave and the way these pumps make a wave is very different. There is also zones of circulation going at the same time. I would place 2 on one end and 2 on the other. You can also have a very chaotic mode every few hours that will help move detritus out. I also have a night mode.

[Giovanni]

Tom,

Looks like we posted at the same time. LOL

When in wave mode, I can see tube worms way back in the rock waving back and forth. This would indicate to me that you would have fewer dead spots.

[Sparkss]

Thanks. I think that is the way we are going to go then. Just not sure when I will get the chance to implement all of these changes (been uber busy lately :().

[jnarowe]

great idea on using the extra ACjr. Tom. I have been contemplating gettng a second PX-1000 to run my QT tank, but your idea is a good one for that too.

[Sparkss]

but the QT would need the DC8 and to run the AS you don't need anything except the controller (and the AS :)).I thought the PX-1000 was pretty cheap (compared to an AC Jr+DC8 combo) ? To be honest, if we didn't already have the spare AC Jr I likely wouldn't go this route, but it is much cheaper than upgrading to a new controller at this point :).

[jnarowe]

See, I would need at least a DC8 for my QT as I have all sorts of equipment on it, and I want to add more. Right now there are 13 plugs for that tank! What the hell am I doing? :eek:

[Sparkss]

sheesh :).. hehehe.. now you see my dilema when trying to add an AS to our ACJr ? try adding 4 more timers to that tank now !!!! (well, you are already 1 timer over the limit for an ACJr :().

[jnarowe]

Iam not sure about the definiton of timer anyway. My IF-Then statements often use the same timer. Is it the IF side or the Then side that counts as a timer?

[Sparkss]

you assign timer names to your outlets IE: LT1 == A02; HTR == A03, etc. There is a limitation to the # of timers you can have defined (dif on each AC model).

your IF-Then statement lines each count as 1 statement

[jnarowe]

aaahhh, so right now I have 22 timer names on the display tank, and 72 IF/Then statements...

[Sparkss]

I think the AC III has a limitation of 40 timers and 160 statements, so you are a ways off from hitting the ceiling on either :).. but I could be wrong :D

[jnarowe]

Nice. Maybe another PX-1000 would be good, but I still have the issue of getting another DC8 inline with the others. Wish those damn things were wireless! :lol:

Sorry about the jack Giovanni, sometimes I forget which thread i am in.

[Giovanni]

J,

It's all good. I just got a used PX-1000 to play with. Very cool piece of equipment.


I bet with 3 DIY pumps on each end you will be able to get your tank rockin !!
Cannot wait for you to do the DIY. You will love it.

[jnarowe]

Well, I don't think 3 on each end is enough. But it will be a good start. The control that you guys are getting is really nice. What I am seeing in the other AquaSurf threads is really sweet.