How much Bromide?

[Kalkbreath]

What do we suppose the current bromide levels are American salt manufacturers products?
Its bound to have increased due to changes in the US market of cheap clean calcium in the states, the most recent studies were before the changes with Dow chemical ( the SR-15 in 2000 and the Advanced aquarist salt tests in 2005.)
To complicate the issue, a spokes person at Dow chemical just told us this week that they switched to the high Bromide formula on Dec. 31st 2005! Yet didn't issue an official press release about it until months later well into 2006.
Tetra (another Calcium manufacturer) says that they dont supply any of the Aquarium salt makers with Calcium. So that leads me to believe that there is a good chance that current Bromide levels in popular American brands may well have increases from a few hundred ppm to the stated 8,000ppm.
It also seems to reason that any hobbyist who adds American made calcium to their aquarium will be adding to the already high levels of Bromide with bromide laden Calcium supplements.(like Dow flake)
A 15 pound bag of salt has about one pound of calcium.
If a hobbyists adds an additional pound of bromide rich calcium to his tank each month , then the total bromide will double and increase to 16,000 ppm!(remember seawater is 64)
Then the next month the level will reach 24,000!
Even a water exchange would not change the bromide levels much due to the high bromide levels in the replacement water.

Bromide is used to eradicate mollusks in waterways like zebra mussels in feshwater and asian clams in sea water.
High Bromide levels have a clear record of harming invertebrates of almost every type.

Could this explain why hobbyists in America seem to be having greater difficulty during the past few years in keeping everything from Tridacna clams to Acropora?

[Boomer]

Kalk

Did you miss the very long thread we had on this "Bromide OK" it is all explained there :D

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1166963&highlight=Bromide+OK

[Kalkbreath]

I dont sea how you arrive at the idea that high levels of bromide are safe in reef tanks?
The research on reef invertebrates from( urchins to clams) clearly shows that it has negative effects.

[Billybeau1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10807347#post10807347 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Kalkbreath
I dont sea how you arrive at the idea that high levels of bromide are safe in reef tanks?
The research on reef invertebrates from( urchins to clams) clearly shows that it has negative effects.

I'm not sure anyone said exactly that. They said there were no studies to ya or nay it.

Do you care to offer a link to that article you mentioned so we can research it ? :)

[MDPinUSA]

[violation]

[Boomer]

Kalk

I don't see how you arrive at that. The reason I posted that is my concern that such levels are or will be toxic but did not find any studies on it. As far AS MDP goes he is just talking more gibberish, and here trying to sell salt AGAIN as usually and has nothing to back him up. He is basing his remarks on his so called study more than 10 years ago, which by far more question than any other salt study despite his claims

qualifed aquarium professonials and chemists

So how come Randy has not followed your line and has it on his reef chemistry articles link ? I don't 't know of any so called qualified aquarium professionals and chemists that say so. Give us some names

The level of Br found is 5-7 ppm. in each of these brand. Thus the levels shown for these brands in the Inland "study" are totally inaccurate.

I see no data from a independent lab so it is just your hearsay again.

[MDPinUSA]

[violation]

[Kalkbreath]

What if an artificial seasalt which contains high bromide levels is mixed with tap water containing chlorine ?
The chemistry would be something like so:
magnesium bromide + chlorine -----> magnesium chloride + bromine
MgBr2(aq) + Cl2(g) -----> MgCl2(aq) + Br2(aq)
At 8,000 ppm Bromide, this reaction would create a very strong level of Bromine.
Bromide plus chlorine is a powerful killer of mollusk and its used to eradicate problem shellfish in waterways, like zebra mussel and Asian clams .
Asiatic clams can be controlled by treating the waters in which they grow with a composition comprising the combination of a chlorine solution and a bromide http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/4872999-description.html

Bromide is a halogen.
just like Chloride, Iodide and Fluoride . A halogen high in the group will displace a halogen lower in the group from that halogen's halide salt. Does high Bromide levels displace all the iodine out of the salt ? Is this an explanation for why iodine levels are increasingly low in American salt mixes?

I think this issue needs to be addressed by the salt manufacturers.
Both concerning thier salts and calcium suppliments

[Boomer]

Yes Kalk all that is true and you may want to add chloramine reactions and yes Bromide is a Halogen. However with

MgBr2(aq) + Cl2(g) -----> MgCl2(aq) + Br2(aq)

you are not going to be seeing much of this it will be more like


CaBr2(aq) + Cl2(g) -----> CaCl2(aq) + Br2(aq)

and Ca is much less reactive than Mg in the presence of Br and all is going to be dependant on the chlorine concentration. But all of this is what I'm still part of what I'm worried about but only to minor degree.

The biggest issue will be those using Ozone, which easily converts bromide to bromine bleach. However, be it this reason or that from tap water the Bromine reacts with activated carbon at the C surface and converts Bromine to Bromide just like GAC converts chloramines or Chlorine to Chloride, leaving CO*. GAC is how you strip water of Chlorine, Chloramine , Bromine or Bromamine out water. So it is more of using more GAC and longer and better contact time. However, the issue will still remain will very high Bromide levels do anything to marine life. It is Bromide toxicity that I am really interested in.

I would like to see someone, maybe a club, to send 2 samples of 2 different salts to ENC Lab to check the Bromide levels. If they are that high as the Inland study shows in ASW I would like to see a back-up test to be sure. If they are that high it will be of even greater concern. Many salt manufactures now claim they have normal Bromide levels and based on Randy's tests the salt he used, IO does. Based on running ozonated waters through long tubes of GAC he was still getting + readings. And you would not get that if the Br was only a few ppm.



As far as Iodine goes no not really. Iodine is quickly converted to Iodide or Iodate in seawater. Salt manufactures could add large amounts of iodine salts to the mix or as some do add "iodine" sup's. And some by accident have driven their iodine levels very high.

I think this issue needs to be addressed by the salt manufacturers.
Both concerning their salts and calcium suppliments

Yes, I agree 100 %