Dipped some new zoas- seems to have been hard on them

[vessxpress1]

I dipped some new zoas I got the other day. Two seperate colonies. One was some nice RPEs and the others are pink with white mouths.

I mixed up a couple gallons of RO/DI with 2 drops of Lugols per gallon and 4 drops of FWE per gallon and set the pH to 8.3. I put the zoas in the water for 5 minutes. When I put the RPEs in, strangely, a few of the polyps stayed wide open. I couldn't believe it.

Anyway, I killed a bunch of pods and then some little round critters. I don't know what they were but they were round, flat, and maybe 2 mm across and could run pretty fast.

I put them back in QT for a day before moving them to my main tank and blasting them with my baster/feeder to clean them off. A couple of the pinks don't open even after a few days and some open with one side partially closed. But the vast majority are open.

Most RPEs are open but the mouths on some of them are almost like puckered up so you can't see the green. It's just a dull maroon color, like the mouths are clinched. And one polyp right in the middle won't open up now. Any ideas what could be going on? It's the same situation every day.

The sticky in this forum doesn't help me much on this because I don't have any white spots and only a few polyps are having trouble. The rest are wide open.

I use a grounding probe and no fish seem to be bothering them. Same polyps seem to have problems.

[DaveJ]

Sounds like they are fine to me... just adjusting. I've had some polyps act funny for weeks before settling down. So long as they are healthy looking, being closed is nothing to worry about. Give them some time, a little flow and low light to help them along.

[Peter Eichler]

PE/Z. gigantus don't seem to do well with dips. I've heard others mention it here and the one time I did it I ended up losing most of the polyps.

[InADream]

It sounds like stress, it may not seem like a lot but you zoos went through a ton of stress... Put them in an area of your tank where they get great lighting, and good flow... They should be ok, just keep us posted... As long as the polyps stay together and are not falling apart i wouldnt worry..

Dream

[MUCHO REEF]

The FWD is often blamed as the culprit when new acquisitions are made. Listed below are possible reason's why polyps sometimes exhibit a negative response, reaction or appearance after a dip.

1. Temp issues - most dips suggest balancing the dip temp with your tank temp. But what about the temp in the shipping bag? Often this temp is not leveled by first floating the bag in either the dip water or the tank. Both of which should be the same. I have never received a shipment with bag water being the same as my tank water, thus I always float the bag to balance before dipping. Removing a colony from 73 degree shipping water and placing it in an 80 degree dipping brew, can possibly cause a delay in expansion after the dip. I tried this many times to prove it and it seems to ring very true.

2. Shipping Stress - though hardy and able to adapt to most tank lighting and some harsh conditions, zoas and palys are yet vulnerable when stressed. I received a nice colony about 5 months ago from a guy I have dealt with before. Upon receiving the shipment, I noticed the bag was very cloudy and slimy. I knew instantly that a dip was out of the question. I broke off a 2 inch chunk and set it aside in some of the slimy water. The larger piece I placed in a bowl with the slimy water as well. I chose to float the bowl carefully in my tank while removing a cup of slimy water every 5 minutes for the next half hour and replacing it with a cup of tank water. My logic was to slowly balance the temp and improve the water conditions/parameters with moon lights only. One hour later, I performed a FWD ( fresh water dip ) . After close inspection, I placed it low in the tank where current was very good and random.

I worked on the piece that I removed at the same time as I did the larger piece. Until the larger chunk, I performed a dip right away after balancing the temp, but without acclimating the slimy frag with water from a mature system. BTW, it was a chunk of rock with only 4 polyps on it. The small rock never opened fully. It took almost 2 full weeks before I had full expansion, the larger piece was fully expanded the next day with near complete expansion under the moon lights the day they were added. The dip was the issue with the smaller piece, it was the environment they were in prior to adding them to my tank.

3. Testing - You mentioned that some were looking pinched. One of the biggest culprits of pinching is low Salinity. It doesn't affect all polyps when salinity is low, but it can and will affect certain polyps. Lets say that one has sold a lot of frags recently and forgot to mix up a batch of water, and they instead replace it with fresh water to top off. I know, it happened to me once which is how I stumbled upon this. I had 4 of my favorite to slowly begin to decline and pinch. I couldn't figure it out, then it hit me. I had topped off 3 times that week with fresh water after a Give-A-Way contest. I had removed several pieces from my tank and simply forgot to mix up replacement water. If caught in time, and I can't say in how much time, but some slowly came back, some perished. I have since tried lowering my salinity on purpose, only to see the same reactions. The mistake is to rapidly adjust the salinity back to it's normal reading. I chose to do it very slowly and all of the polyps recovered quickly.

It's not always the dip that causes a negative reaction or a delay in expansion.


I have dipped hundreds of frags and colonies over the years and if the dip is performed correctly, the only issues you should have are possibly some delayed expansion of some colonies. This is purely normal and there is nothing to worry about. As with any treatments one performs within a confined eco system, be it dipping, medicating even with some water changes, a delay in the polyps re opening is common. There are even times, though very infrequently, you can and will lose a polyp or two, it happens. I never dip large disc palys such as Grandis as it has been proven time and time again that they can not tolerate a fresh water dip and will succumb within 24 hours. I use up to 5 or 6 drops of Lugols now per gallon of water with absolutely no adverse short term or long term reaction. I have heard of dips gone bad, with many other chemicals have been combined with a dip, or when the system is very unstable prior to the dip. Fluctuation conditions alone can bring about issues that can be avoided IMO, and are often attributed to the dip being the culprit of polyp retraction of bail out.

I tried the Furan dip for the first time last month and it worked perfectly, saving something that was not replaceable. I continue the FWD's with every single new acquisition and I have been more than pleased with the continual success of the dip.

You mentioned they were new arrivals and that you dipped and placed them in a QT for a day. Just curious why you placed them in the QT for a day? If you have a true QT, they should QT'd for at least a week to a couple weeks for observation. Not being mean or anything, just wanted to get an understanding. Also, how long ago did you perform the dip? I don't think that you have anything to worry about based on what you are seeing. This is perfectly normal, I would give them a few more days. Did you run your actinic only for the first full day after placing them in your tank? Doing so greatly helps with the transition.

Best of luck to you my friend and sorry for the long ramble.

Mucho Reef

[Lytehouse]

vessxpress1: good luck over the next day or so. It's difficult to find something you really want and almost lose it.


Peter Eichler: Has there been any speculation as to what the diffenence is with the larger polyps to cause this reaction to dipping?

Much: Thanks for the detailed post detailing step by step what to do, rational for why it's a good idea, & possible pot holes to avoid. Always great to read your material.

[vessxpress1]

Thanks for all the responses! And the long one Mucho. Wasn't expecting all that. BTW, I love my 3rd Gen. .40 Glock as well. I put a custom KKM Precision SS barrel in it, a 3.5# trigger connector in it, the back channel insert, an 18 # SS spring and guide rod in and mounted a Streamlight, light/laser combo on it. Way more comfortable than any 1911 I've held. I don't care what they say. I love it!

Ok, back to zoos. :D

Here are the RPEs from a few moments ago... mouths still clenched in the front but everything behind these polyps are fine. You can see the bad one is starting to open a little but it's pale:

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f203/vessxpress1/forsale/zoos001.jpg


And here's the pinks. All open but that one on the bottom edge:

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f203/vessxpress1/forsale/zoos002.jpg


I'm still a believe in the dips. I wasn't trying to bash the idea. It did kill a lot of stuff off of them. I'm just saying, I didn't have the same problems, before the dip.

FWIW, I bought these at MACNA, (they didn't take a beating in my care for over a week) they rode in a bag in a bucket on the way home. The water got down to 74. I then put them back in my pico tank for a week and the RPEs had nothing wrong with them.

I did adjust the temp of the dip to match the water they came from and set the pH to 8.3. The SG of my main tank never changes using the Osmolator. There couldn't be more of a SG change than a FWD, then straight to the tank anyway.

Based on the pic, any ideas what may be wrong with that polyp?

[vessxpress1]

I'm wondering if the bad one on the RPEs wasn't the one that stayed open during the dip? Can damage occur to them if they don't close up?

[suppressivefire]

dont look like rpes to me lol

[vessxpress1]

The mouths are clenched up right now so you can't see them. They're dark red palys with neon green mouths. I don't know what else they'd be.

[suppressivefire]

yea i see some green now it just looked like they had blue mouths lol.

[MUCHO REEF]

Vessexpress1, you mentioned that the oral opening was "clenched". The oral disc appears discolored/prebleached. Would you also agree from the photo, the the skirts are curled inward? At least it appears that way to me, I could be wrong. If so, this is a common occurrence with this particular paly. I have own three different frags from 3 different sources of the super red variant. I purchased two of the frags with 1 or 2 polyps curled inward and the skirts were somewhat white to an opaque color on those affected polyps. I later purchased a larger frag/small colony which was perfectly healthy in the original owners tank. When I placed the third frag in my system, several skirts on 2 polyps also curled inward and turn whitish. ( As with any new arrival, if it doesn't fare well when placed, I zig zag down and away 4 inches to either more/less current or more/less lighting. I chose down and away with less light and more current and within a week the polyps fully recovered. Did my moving the colony help? Maybe, but I had this issue with each purchase of the particular paly and my assumption is purely a guess. Below is a picture of the True Reds that are doing exceptionally well now with over 15 polyps.

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/MUCHOREEF9000/true_rpe-1.jpg

I didn't have a photo of them so I borrowed this one courtesy of Beaker Bob


Mucho Reef

[Lytehouse]

MUCHO REEF,

Do you have a thread or web page where you post pics of your tank and log the experiments you do with zoanthids. Your posts seem so logical and thought out, I'd love to see a thread to follow of what your up to at any given time.

[MUCHO REEF]

Lynn, my apologies for not seeing this earlier. I don't have any of the above that you listed, I am working on something very similar that I can hopefully share by the new year. I will definitely drop you a line.

Thanks for the kind words.

Mucho Reef