View Full Version : Skimmers, is it me...?
I was trying to decide on a skimmer for a 210. I've read rave reviews on almost all the skimmers. Mixed in were horrible reviews.
It seems to me that maybe the same skimmer might work perfectly on some tanks while not working as well on other tanks.
I chose a AquaC EV-240 but have not received it yet. I have seen reviews like, "Wow, fantastic skimmer" and others that went, "Ewww, horrible skimmer".
Is it that skimmers in general are super sensitive to water parameters?
Curious,
Michael
salth2owannabe
09/27/2007, 10:12 AM
I'll chime in for discussion sake.
I think the skimmers may be sensative but I think like anything else it is more personal preferance. I noticed the same thing when I was in the market for a skimmer. For me, I don't care if the skim mate is dry or wet or whatever as long as it is doing what it is suppose do. We all have to top off water anyway and if it is more frequent sometimes because my skim mate is more wet it is not a big deal to me.
Just my two cents.
derrikd
09/27/2007, 10:21 AM
i had an ev180 and loved that skimmer...
USC-fan
09/27/2007, 10:22 AM
No...Different skimmer designs are more sensitive to water parameters than other. Some are especially sensitive to water changes, ex. hands in tank or feeding.
javajaws
09/27/2007, 12:27 PM
Skimmers are like cars...some people are happy with a Ford, and some aren't happy unless they have a Porsche (or BMW in my case :)). They'll usually all get the job done - but some need more maintenance than others, some are more finicky, etc.
In the end, the only thing that really matters is if you are getting enough of the gunk out of your tank for your particular setup.
Having said that...the AquaC is an ok skimmer at perhaps the lower to middle range of skimmers. Also, I think most people prefer needlewheel skimmers in general nowadays (less finicky, use less electricity, etc.).
Laud, dont buy into all the hype. Needle Wheel skimmers are not the only way to get the job done. You may need a larger pump to run the Spray bar, Beckett, Venturi, and downdraft skimmers but aside from that, alot of them still work exceedingly well. Just because it isnt a Needle wheel skimmer doesnt mean it isnt any good. And just because something is a needlwheel skimmer doesnt mean it trumps any other, older design. There are good and not so good needle wheel skimmers just like any other design. My Bermuda 3C venturi skimmer worked very well on my 90. I havent owned an Aqua C skimmer but there are alot of positives written about them, still. When you get it, set it up, be patient through break-in and then see how it fares. I bet it will do a very good job on your tank.
javajaws
09/27/2007, 01:07 PM
What hype are you talking about?
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10855136#post10855136 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by javajaws
What hype are you talking about?
The hype that the only skimmers worth having these days are Needlewheels. Surely you've noticed. Although Becketts do still get some respect. Not much else does though.
RWillieK
09/27/2007, 01:16 PM
I am running a 'low end' skimmer, but I like it a lot. I'm running a ASM G2 that I modded some. I find the skimmer very consistant after making the modifications.
I can make skimmate so dry, it pushes dry foam out of the cup's locking slots, and there isn't any wet skimmate in the cup - dry only.
Robbie
Wryknow
09/27/2007, 02:07 PM
The skimmer praising and bashing is a little out of control IMHO but it's to be expected. You just need to keep in mind that a big factor in skimmer rating is people's ego though. It's a very natural (and well documented) human reaction to try to make yourself feel better about your decisions by convincing others that you made the correct decision. This is especially true for stuff like skimmers where the "what is best" question gets asked a lot and there's not a good method of objectively measuring performance. Sites like this are still a valuable resource though IMHO since you can pick out trends on certain products over time. Plus, with a little reading and time, you can start to distinguish hobbyists that are perhaps a bit more objective and experienced (or mabye just have similar values to yours) and weight their opinions accordingly.
USC-fan
09/27/2007, 02:26 PM
There are good reasons why external NW skimmers are really popular.....
oldimpala
09/27/2007, 02:52 PM
There are great reasons why every skimmer is popular.... And, popularity also brings us great stuff like N-Sync; so it isn't everything....
Some prefer energy efficiency, noise, brute force, turnover, LPM/LPH ratings, color, name, you name it....
I have friends who swear by NWs (And they work great), I run a Beckett, and didn't have much luck with my NWs. Most beautiful tank in Buffalo, that I know of, is run with a LifeReef Venturi; very old-school. It's whatever floats your boat.
I agree with the consensus, buy whatever works for your tank. (I've owned a Tunze, Beckett, and 2 NW's).
Jason at Aqua-C is fantastic for customer service, and they're pretty simple to set up, so, it'll work out well for you. Just be happy with it, no need to second guess your purchase. If it doesn't work fine, play in the used section until you come in to what you like, and sell the EV.
-Andy
wharfrat48
09/27/2007, 03:18 PM
Don't mean to hi-jack but these comments sort of fit the thread and I like the title.
1) Doesn't it seem that most skimmers (especially the high end ones) are way over priced for what you actually get? You can buy a new computer for a few hundred bucks these days, but some skimmers are close to a grand. I dont get it.
2) How are the skimmers rated? I have always heard to cut the manufacture's rating in half when choosing a skimmer, but how is that figured out?
USC-fan
09/27/2007, 03:37 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10855959#post10855959 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by oldimpala
There are great reasons why every skimmer is popular.... And, popularity also brings us great stuff like N-Sync; so it isn't everything....
Some prefer energy efficiency, noise, brute force, turnover, LPM/LPH ratings, color, name, you name it....
I have friends who swear by NWs (And they work great), I run a Beckett, and didn't have much luck with my NWs. Most beautiful tank in Buffalo, that I know of, is run with a LifeReef Venturi; very old-school. It's whatever floats your boat.
I agree with the consensus, buy whatever works for your tank. (I've owned a Tunze, Beckett, and 2 NW's).
Jason at Aqua-C is fantastic for customer service, and they're pretty simple to set up, so, it'll work out well for you. Just be happy with it, no need to second guess your purchase. If it doesn't work fine, play in the used section until you come in to what you like, and sell the EV.
-Andy I meant popular on this site. Most here run smaller tanks[sub 200gals] where a lot of the time you can't use a high watt pump that a lot of these other types of skimmers need.
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10856157#post10856157 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by wharfrat48
Don't mean to hi-jack but these comments sort of fit the thread and I like the title.
1) Doesn't it seem that most skimmers (especially the high end ones) are way over priced for what you actually get? You can buy a new computer for a few hundred bucks these days, but some skimmers are close to a grand. I dont get it.
2) How are the skimmers rated? I have always heard to cut the manufacture's rating in half when choosing a skimmer, but how is that figured out?
1. Yes they are over-priced. That why its good to shop around and research which skimmer is best for you. You can still find some good deals out there.....
2. Manufacturers put whatever rating they like on the skimmers. There is no clear rating system set-up.
javajaws
09/27/2007, 04:34 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10856157#post10856157 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by wharfrat48
Don't mean to hi-jack but these comments sort of fit the thread and I like the title.
1) Doesn't it seem that most skimmers (especially the high end ones) are way over priced for what you actually get? You can buy a new computer for a few hundred bucks these days, but some skimmers are close to a grand. I dont get it.
2) How are the skimmers rated? I have always heard to cut the manufacture's rating in half when choosing a skimmer, but how is that figured out?
Are expensive skimmers worth the price? That's not for anybody to decide but the buyer. But in addition to performance, you are also paying for the build quality and the service. Some people will also pay more just because they can (and some think that in doing so they can buy themselves a better tank).
What things you value the most/least will determine what skimmer is right for you and how much you are willing to pay.
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10856157#post10856157 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by wharfrat48
1) Doesn't it seem that most skimmers (especially the high end ones) are way over priced for what you actually get? You can buy a new computer for a few hundred bucks these days, but some skimmers are close to a grand. I dont get it.
2) How are the skimmers rated? I have always heard to cut the manufacture's rating in half when choosing a skimmer, but how is that figured out?
1) I couldn't agree more. Damn computers are almost free. Maybe we should get microsoft to add a motherboard for automated skimming. That would drop the price. haha
2) Someone (other than me) should come up with a sludge ppm rating against total wattage used study for skimmers. Then figure out the cost effectiveness for initial price plus first year total cost.
It'd be a helluva study. LOL
By the way, thanks for all the input. I was concerned that I might get ridiculed for asking yet ANOTHER skimmer question.
DKreefkeepers
09/28/2007, 08:37 AM
This seems to be a big topic lately. Being a big time DIY guy myself I refuse to spend the kind of money that some of these folks ask for their skimmers. I recently built a knock off of an Aqua-C EV120 that works as good or better then the real thing. I am currently working on a knockoff of the outrageously overpriced bubble king skimmers. Dont get me wrong, to get good material and have it be as close to an authentic duplicate as possible takes some cash. The EV-120 cost around $140 to make but is $300 new. The Bubble King knock off I have a little over $300 in, that skimmer is just under $1000 new. But still at $300 that is approaching the price that a lot of people think is still too high to pay for a skimmer. I am just lucky to have the tools and ability to make my own. I threw in a pic of the EV-120 that I built.
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/94574skimmer.JPG
USC-fan
09/28/2007, 09:01 AM
I think it will be hard to match the Bubble king just because of the really expensive pumps they use.
DKreefkeepers
09/28/2007, 09:54 AM
duplicate post...
read below
DKreefkeepers
09/28/2007, 09:56 AM
this is true, I did not use the red dragon pumps that they use. When it comes down to it, it is a needle wheel pump. I will not say that they are all created equal but it cant be so much better that it justifies the price they want for them. The needle wheel pump that I am using for the project is doing a awesome job. From what I have read about the red dragon pumps they are trying to justify the cost of the pump on its build quality and not so much that it performs better. Dont nail me to the cross if I am wrong about that, I did read it in a few places.
bag151
09/28/2007, 11:40 AM
Another factor to consider in rating all of these skimmer reviews is the user them self. Without know the person you have to take what they say with a grain of salt. People will spend hours dialing in a skimmer and keeping it clean to maintain performance and they will most likely give you and honest opinion and then some people will not touch a dial and let it build crap in the neck for months and then tell you its the worst thing they every bought.
The AquaC's do a good job, I am not a fan of how they designed the connection cup to neck connection, it tends to collect salt creep.
waynem
09/28/2007, 12:14 PM
Some people hate certain brand I think simple because they can’t afforded them. It’s as suggested an ego thing, when you read the words “I would not pay that much blar blar“ you can normal ignore the rest of the post. So conversely it’s a ego thing to buy the best brand just to have the best toys.
Without independent test it’s really hard to say which is better and why. Even then people will still want the better looking more expensive version. I read posts all over the world and that “cut manufactures ratings in half” thing is like a urban myth, I can’t find anything to back it up but it comes up in every single topic you read about skimmers, hell it probable true for most brands but most of the people saying it do so simple because everyone says it.
I just brought my new skimmer, it’s my third one (first two I let cost play a part in my choice) so I spend tons of time trying to consider all the points and reading every piece of information I could.
For me the points to consider are
1. Performance (does it work out of the box)
2. Quality
3. Service / parts (before and after sales should I need help)
DYI works for some people but that’s not my thing.
Join a local club and just go see a few in action in peoples tanks, that’s the best advice anyone can give you. They all work and they are only one part of the whole equation.
hebygb
09/28/2007, 12:37 PM
It sounds like your tank is young. This should impact your expectations from a skimmer. There are many things that can impact the effectiveness of a skimmer. I have seen a Seaclone outperform a Lifereef... sorry, I like, and own, many LR products. Just dont feel that you need to have Tiffany in your sump in order to have a jewel of a tank. Go slow... I like Dkreefkeepers attitude and solution. Do you take orders? Waynem... I like your criteria for evaluation... again... take your time.
I read a good article written by AquaC regarding protein skimmers, the how and why... Here is a link and I think they did a good job being objective. Let me know if you agree, or not.
skimmer article on AquaC's website (http://www.proteinskimmer.com/skimmerdatabase.htm)
USC-fan
09/29/2007, 09:46 AM
That is a pretty old article....
Mr James
09/29/2007, 10:32 AM
by javajaws
Skimmers are like cars...some people are happy with a Ford, and some aren't happy unless they have a Porsche (or BMW in my case :)). They'll usually all get the job done - but some need more maintenance than others, some are more finicky, etc.
In the end, the only thing that really matters is if you are getting enough of the gunk out of your tank for your particular setup.
Well said. I don't have to read further nor do I feel the need to add my two cents... BTW, I have an ATi BM200.... Personal preference.
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10867800#post10867800 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by USC-fan
That is a pretty old article....
I am sure it is, but it still helped me understand some basics. Thought it helped answer my own concerns regarding differences in styles.
chwcdw
09/29/2007, 12:45 PM
I know this is getting off topic, but you know its funny, I've been having this exact same discussion with my wife for the past couple of weeks while looking for a skimmer.
When you step back and look at the big pictue we are investing thousands of dollars to keep a $30-$40 fish alive in our homes. Yes, I know some of us have hundreds if not thousands invested in our live stock and you really cant place value on a life, but......
So I guess what it really comes down to is, what is it worth to YOU, and will it fit YOUR applicaion and in the end are YOU happy with the results.
kysard1
09/29/2007, 07:14 PM
Skimming has everything to do with a water attribute you don't test for : surface tension.
Surface tension is greatly influenced by contaiminates that make it through your RO/DI. Yes even if you measure 0 ppm, you do have non conductive contaiminates getting through the RO/DI.
RO/DI does not create distilled water.
These contaiminates make everyones surface tension different.
So a skimmer that works great in Milwaukee might be a piece of junk in Florida.
One day we will be able to measure the dynes surface tension and choose a skimmer based on that, instead of endless debates and trial/error.
USC-fan
09/29/2007, 07:19 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10868480#post10868480 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by laud
I am sure it is, but it still helped me understand some basics. Thought it helped answer my own concerns regarding differences in styles. What i meant was that a lot of the skimmer design has change so that article is not accurate. If you want to find out about the different types of skimmer, check out the skimmer threads in the advance topic section here.
waynem
09/29/2007, 07:38 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10868602#post10868602 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by chwcdw
When you step back and look at the big pictue we are investing thousands of dollars to keep a $30-$40 fish alive in our homes. Yes, I know some of us have hundreds if not thousands invested in our live stock and you really cant place value on a life, but......
Not only keeping them alive but for me reducing the amount of maintenance was also important.
Off topic but am i the only one that thinks BK skimmers look a lot like ant farms from when I was a kid???
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10870351#post10870351 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by USC-fan
What i meant was that a lot of the skimmer design has change so that article is not accurate. If you want to find out about the different types of skimmer, check out the skimmer threads in the advance topic section here.
If you have any good links please put them in, I promise I will read diligently.
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10870326#post10870326 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kysard1
Skimming has everything to do with a water attribute you don't test for : surface tension.
Surface tension is greatly influenced by contaiminates that make it through your RO/DI. Yes even if you measure 0 ppm, you do have non conductive contaiminates getting through the RO/DI.
RO/DI does not create distilled water.
These contaiminates make everyones surface tension different.
So a skimmer that works great in Milwaukee might be a piece of junk in Florida.
One day we will be able to measure the dynes surface tension and choose a skimmer based on that, instead of endless debates and trial/error.
That was one of the things I was curious about as well. Now I have a water softener for my whole home system that then goes into the RO/DI system and into my tank (which is coming this friday) and I wonder if soft water causes trouble?
Anyone know about this issue?
kysard1
09/30/2007, 08:02 PM
No soft water is good, what gets through an RO/DI and messes up surface tension is Dissolved Organic Compouds: fuel, pesticides, herbicides.
vBulletin® v3.8.4, Copyright ©2000-2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.