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ReefiN MonsteR
09/30/2007, 02:19 PM
Ok I am going to attempt to explain this the best I can...without a picture because I don't have a digital camera right now to use. ........

My sump does not seem to be pulling and pushing water in and back out of the tank at the rate it seems it should. When I performed a water change today...I added the water directly into the tank until my water level was not visible on the glass (above the frame lip at the top of the tank)..however, this caused my overflow to be almost full and the sump was filling with water and not returning enought water fast enough to the display tank.

I know that the overflow hose is a half inch and the hose going back into the tank is an inch. The return pump I was given will only fit with a 1 inch hose and the drain hose in the overflow box will only fit to the half inch bulkheads on the bottom of the tank and to the sump bulkhead.

Does this make any sense?
Any ideas or comments on how to resolve the issue.

Aadler
09/30/2007, 03:04 PM
It sounds like you can only have so much flow going OUT of your tank into the sump 1/2" tubing does not handle that many GPH. If your return pump is pumping water into the display to quickly you will need to do one or two things (or both)

1) Install a ball valve on your return line and retard the flow of water so that less water is entering your display tank than can safely drain. This is not a good idea as it will cause extra wear on your pump.

2) install a PVC T into your return line and run it back into your sump (make sure a ball valve is also on this line as you will need to keep it partially closed in order to achieve the correct flow.)

Rereading your post i cannot tell exactly what you mean, but i do not see how you could have any other problem than the one i gave suggestions for.

Your display tank should maintain the same water level at all times... (while water is running through it from the sump). If this level is fluctuating you have problems with the seal around your overflow box in the display tank and will need to silicon around the box again. If you are having this problem you are asking for a waterfall in your living room as a snail or crap could get into your 1/2" drain line and cause a serious backup.

Aadler
09/30/2007, 03:11 PM
does this picture show your setup (very roughly :) )?

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/92332setup.jpg

explain where you are haveing the problem, to much water in the display? to much water in the sump?

if problem is in the sump you have a leak around your overflow box in the tank.

if the problem is to much water in display you are returning water to quickly and will need to use option 2 in my above post.

ReefiN MonsteR
09/30/2007, 04:10 PM
Ok after reviewing the sump details....this is what the issue really is. I explained wrong in my first post.

The drain line is a 1" tube....and the bulkhead is also 1" in my overflow box. The return line has a 1" pipe and 1" fitting into the return pump. The problem is with the connection from the under side of the tank, where the water is pulled from the overflow box. Here is a diagram of how it looks.....I will post a picture later.
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd296/reefinmonster/sump.jpg

ReefiN MonsteR
09/30/2007, 04:21 PM
Ok after reviewing the sump details....this is what the issue really is. I explained wrong in my first post.

The drain line is a 1" tube....and the bulkhead is also 1" in my overflow box. The return line has a 1" pipe and 1" fitting into the return pump. The problem is with the connection from the under side of the tank, where the water is pulled from the overflow box. Here is a diagram of how it looks.....I will post a picture later.

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd296/reefinmonster/SUMPPIC.jpg

Aadler
09/30/2007, 04:27 PM
Ok gotchya,

1) is anything glued?

2) go to homedepot/lowes and get a pvc fitting that will skrew onto the OUTSIDE of the bulkhead forget the inside, thus eliminating the need for the 1/2 connector then reduce (most likely 1.25" or 1.5" pvc down to a 1" pipe and continue to the skimmer.

You still havnt made the problem clear, is the problem water is backing up in the display tank?

192clark
09/30/2007, 04:29 PM
you need to see if you can get rid of that 1/2 adapter even if it means going up in size on your hose to sump. The 1/2 restricts flow too much.

Playa-1
09/30/2007, 04:30 PM
The 1/2" adapter is restricting your drain flow and needs to be replaced with a 1" adapter.

ReefiN MonsteR
09/30/2007, 05:49 PM
Ok cool..gotcha. The problem is not enough water in the tank .......if I fill the tank up all the way...then the overflow fills up and the sump starts filling up. I just want the two to be even. I dont really have too much water in the sump or tank.......I just cant get the water level in the tank to where I want it. (which is above the lip of the glass) which must be because of the uneven flow of water to and from the tank to the sump. Thanks again and I will try to modify the setup tomorrow

Playa-1
09/30/2007, 06:23 PM
You might want to hold off on making any changes. It sounds like you might have more going on then just the drain line. The 1/2" fitting change on the drain line is not going to solve that problem.
The 1/2" fitting change is just going to help the drain line to more efficient. You might want to hold off making any changes until you get more information. If the main tank is not holding enough water then that will be a totally different issue.
That could be the location of your returns or possibly a pump issue.

ReefiN MonsteR
10/01/2007, 06:35 AM
Ok well I am not sure what to do then. The return is in the middle of the tank.....and the overflow is in the back left-hand corner. The pump for the return is brand new and seems to be working fine. What should I do in order to get this working right?

amike5
10/01/2007, 08:46 AM
If there isn't enough water in your tank, you need to raise the drain to the desired level. How hight your durso or hob is determines the level of water in your tank; unless you have a built in overflow.

Playa-1
10/01/2007, 09:25 AM
Agreed, how are your drain lines plumbed in the main tank?

ReefiN MonsteR
10/01/2007, 12:03 PM
There is no durso or hob. The hole for the drain is on the bottom of the tank in the overflow box. And the drain hose runs under the tank to the sump. Would adding the durso pipe fix the problem by raising the overflow water height?

ReefiN MonsteR
10/01/2007, 12:03 PM
CORRECTION!!!!!! My overflow is in the back RIGHT HAND corner....not left

ReefiN MonsteR
10/01/2007, 01:09 PM
I dont know if this matters.....but my tank has a built in overflow that was there when I got the tank.

192clark
10/01/2007, 04:56 PM
you need to build the durso if you have a built in overflow with just a hole in the bottom

Playa-1
10/01/2007, 05:45 PM
It sounds like your tank is drilled near the bottom of the tank and there is no skimmer box in place. If thats the case then you could install a durso stand pipe type of assembly and the the water level in the main tank would not drop below the elbow on the top of the stand pipe. You could also install a skimmer box in the corner and the water in the main tank would not drop below the top of the skimmer box. Or you could put both a skimmer box and a durso stand pipe :)

ReefiN MonsteR
10/03/2007, 12:33 PM
I added a durso standpipe and that did not solve the issue. I think I am going to have to drain the tank and change the bulkead in the overflow. Yes the tank is drilled on the bottom of the tank......but even after adding the durso....i am still not able to raise my tank water level without too much water going into the overflow box and sump. The return pump i have should be plenty enough power (Mag 12). Could that be the problem?????the mag drive inlet is 3/4".

Playa-1
10/03/2007, 05:34 PM
What do you mean when you say too much water going into the overflow box?

Playa-1
10/03/2007, 05:35 PM
If your overflow box is not sealed then that would allow your water level to drop.

ReefiN MonsteR
10/03/2007, 06:31 PM
I cant really explain it. Its weird. When I try to fill up my tank...once the water level get almost to the rim of the tank.....my sump starts rising and the water level in my overflow is to the top...almost reaching the venturi hole in the top of the durso pipe. and then within a few minutes.....the water level in the main tank is down a little bit more than it was...and the sump water level gets too high! I dont know what this all means but I just know something is not right! Any other ideas someone can offer? Im considering draining the tank....and then putting on a new bulkhead so that my drain hold is 1" all the way to the sump. and not 1" to a 1/2" adapter back to a 1" like i currently have.

ReefiN MonsteR
10/03/2007, 06:33 PM
Maybe I need to re silicone the overflow and try that first? How can this work ? seeing how i have 140 gallons of water......a lot of live sand and live rock already almost cycled?? DO I HAVE TO DRAIN IT AND REMOVE EVERYTHING???? :( :( this will suck

Playa-1
10/03/2007, 07:04 PM
How far down is the main tank dropping if you don't stop it ?

Playa-1
10/03/2007, 07:24 PM
Are you trying to fill your tank above the top of the skimmer/Overflow box? If that is the case then that is the problem. The reef ready tanks are designed to have the water level at the top of the skimmer box. It would be possible to raise it higher then the skimmer with a properly fitted Durso style stand pipe. www.dursostandpipe.com

ihopss
10/03/2007, 07:26 PM
your pump may be to small.do you have power head you can put in the sump with a hose going to dis tank,try this to see if it will bal out if it will your pump is to small.

Playa-1
10/03/2007, 07:26 PM
oops bad link www.dursostandpipes.com

ReefiN MonsteR
10/03/2007, 07:29 PM
not a whole lot...maybe a quarter inch to half inch. No im not trying to fill the water above the skimmer......i am just trying to not have the water level visible from the front of the tank.......in other words...im just trying to get the water level above the trim on the tank......right below the teeth if the skimmer. Thank you much Playa-1 by the way....I really appreciate you trying to help the matter. (your link didnt work BTW)

Playa-1
10/03/2007, 07:32 PM
ya, it's possible that you have an undersized pump, bad pump, or the intake for the pump is clogged. However, when you say that you have a Overflow/skimmer box inside your tank and your trying to raise the water level in the main tank up to the rim. That leads me to believe that your trying to overfill the main tank and your overflow/skimmer is just doing what it is designed to do.

ReefiN MonsteR
10/03/2007, 07:35 PM
Also....the durso pipe I bought was from a LFS and it is an AGA standpipe. Are they decent durso pipes?

ReefiN MonsteR
10/03/2007, 07:39 PM
Hmmmm.....are you not suppose to be able to keep the water level out of sight from the front of the tank? (a drop above the molding?) Where should the water level be in contrast with the skimmer teeth? Right below it or even with it.....or what?

Playa-1
10/03/2007, 07:43 PM
www.dursostandpipes.com
All things considered it souds like the overflow box may not have a tight seal around the top or it is cracked or leaking. I would think that a properly fitted standpipe would allow you to raise the water level as high as you want. If your able to follow the link check out where the water level is on the stand pipe in the picture. If the stand pipe is raised up by installing a longer piece of PVC then the water level should rise to the occassion. If the water level doesn't rise to the stand pipe then something else is going on with the plumbing.

Playa-1
10/03/2007, 07:52 PM
Your water should skim through the teeth. When you tank water gets too low the water will no longer flow over the teeth and will stop filling the sump. This is what prevents you from having a flood. If your water is dropping well below the teeth on the skimmer box and overflowing the sump. Then i would say that the skimmer box does not have a tight seal around it and water is seeping around the sides causing the water level to drop. You should still be able to raise the water level if you like with a longer pvc pipe on the stand pipe. It will probrobly make the skimmer box less effective but i think it would serve your purpose. If the bottom of those skimmer box teeth are visible from the outside of the tank then your water line will also be visible unless you make some type of modification.

ReefiN MonsteR
10/03/2007, 08:49 PM
Ok well i will take another look in the morning. I am having a guy that works for a reef aquarium company come out tomorrow to look at it. I will update with the progress.

ReefiN MonsteR
10/04/2007, 09:32 PM
Ok well I finally have this whole matter figured out:) SWEEET! and the problem is actually a few problems. First off......the issue with not being able to keep the water level higher in the display tank is because whoever added the overflow box to the tank did not make it tall enough. So it is sitting about a half inch below the top rim of the tank. The second issue with the sump filling fast is partly becuase its only a 30 gallon sump for the 140 tank which I thought would be enough....but seeing that its only filled halfway makes the water evaporate fast causing it to drain almost daily. And the last issue is the bulkhead that i have in the drain was installed upside down....and that 1/2 inch adapter is reducing the drain flow quite a bit. So im going to replace that and either make a larger sump or just make a backup reservoir with a top off valve to keep the water at a constant level. Thanks again for the input everyone!!! I finally have this figured out! I hope......