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View Full Version : Noobie needs some love


Chago09
10/02/2007, 08:17 AM
LOL sorry about the title but I figured it would attract more attention.

Ok I have tried this salt water hobby before and ran away back to fresh. I want to try it again and want to do it right.

I want to set up a 77 gallon. I know it is to small for any real predators but if the 77 works well then my 150 will be converted to salt again. I know great skimming is a must, so I will look for a great skimmer.

My question refers to the controversial filtration topic. The last time I did it I used lb per gallon of live rock with lots of of flow and thats it. No canisters, HOB, nothing!!!

Is that the best method for a preadtor tank??? i know it is for a reef but lets say I want to house a clown trigger and maybe two other fish. (i know they get big like i said if all works out the 150 will be set up soon after) Can I run this tank on a canister only????? perhaps like two HOB only????

1.)Like for example let me know if this would work..... 77 gallon with two Aqua Clear 70's, proper sized skimmer and about 30 lbs of live rock. Would this system work???

2.) If I were to purchase 50lbs of base rock from coralife and then seed it with like 20 lbs of live rock, then would I eventually have 70lbs of live rock??? and use only powerheads for flow as the filter???

3.) I see tanks set up in stores with absolutly no rock whatsoever, but then the store owner tells me i need lb per gallon, can someone explain this to me please???

an411
10/02/2007, 08:21 AM
The Rock helps as a biological filter I don't think its absolutely necessary to have live rock to have a successful tank. Yes if you bought 50 pounds of base rock and seeded it with 20 pounds of live rock it will eventually turn into all live rock

Tswifty
10/02/2007, 10:38 AM
Ok here's my thoughts:

I've ran a 55 gallon with HOB (2 Aquaclear 50 filters) and very little rock, and also ran it with 100lbs with no filters.

If you are going to go with large predators, I would use minimal rock to allow them ample swimming room. Also your substrate/live sand will help with additional filtration. Therefore the setup you have listed under 1.) should work fine.

Skimming is extremely important also, however predator fish are usually hardier and more tolerant to water conditions that aren't as strict, (which makes them good beginner fish). However, I would buy more than an adequate sized skimmer to be safe.

As far as how much rock you need for effective filtration before you can remove your HOB filters, I'm not exactly sure. My guess would be that this will have to do with a combination of frequency of water changes, and the amount of time tank has been established, etc. (look for more advice on this topic).

I wouldn't take your LFS advice too seriously. When I started in the hobby, I had a worker tell me that the SeaClone was one of the best skimmers on the market!!! (I kid you not). Majority of the time they are just trying to make a sale. Posting on RC is your best bet for "knowledgeable" advice.

Best of luck to ya!

jamiep
10/02/2007, 10:39 AM
If i was back four months, I would be drilling my tank overflows and fitting two bulkheads into my sump...but im not and I spent all day fiddling with HOB's!

papagimp
10/02/2007, 10:51 AM
Preditors can also be a tad bit messier than the typical eat pellets and flake fish. And naturally the larger fish also have bigger "messes". So I'd definatly go with a decent skimmer and plan on doing adequate water changes as needed. If you plan for the filthier water, than running canisters, HOB's, and alternative methods of filtration to just live rock won't be much of an issue. I agree Tswifty, use less/no rock and let the fish have sufficeint swimming space, then I'd use a really good canister or simliar filtration.

Aquarist007
10/02/2007, 11:17 AM
I would run a sump and place the extra live rock in the sump--keep it working at the water column esp with the increased bioload those fish can cause.
I would also run a filter sock in the sump for added filtration of nitrates.

NeveSSL
10/02/2007, 12:15 PM
You may want to consider a remote DSB (IE, a bucket full of sand :) ) or some other filtration to go along with with live rock. I'm not sure that live rock alone would do it. It might for a single fish, but I wouldn't think more than one or two.

Then again, it may work well! :)

Brandon

Aquarist007
10/02/2007, 12:18 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10887516#post10887516 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by NeveSSL
You may want to consider a remote DSB (IE, a bucket full of sand :) ) or some other filtration to go along with with live rock. I'm not sure that live rock alone would do it. It might for a single fish, but I wouldn't think more than one or two.

Then again, it may work well! :)

Brandon

I understand where you are coming from-------the best situation would be a refugium

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/reefescapetangster/IMG_4527.jpg

NeveSSL
10/02/2007, 12:21 PM
Agreed, capn. :)

And a refugium is what I run. :)

Brandon

Chago09
10/03/2007, 01:33 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10887547#post10887547 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by capn_hylinur
I understand where you are coming from-------the best situation would be a refugium

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/reefescapetangster/IMG_4527.jpg

I don't understand, so are you saying that a refugium is your only form of filtration???? you have nothing in your tank besides that???? how much live rock is in there???

Chago09
10/03/2007, 01:34 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10887516#post10887516 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by NeveSSL
You may want to consider a remote DSB (IE, a bucket full of sand :) ) or some other filtration to go along with with live rock. I'm not sure that live rock alone would do it. It might for a single fish, but I wouldn't think more than one or two.

Then again, it may work well! :)

Brandon

I don't understand, I though live rock only is the way to go??? isn't that the reefers filtration????

Aquarist007
10/03/2007, 01:59 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10895650#post10895650 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Chago09
I don't understand, so are you saying that a refugium is your only form of filtration???? you have nothing in your tank besides that???? how much live rock is in there???

I have 180 lbs of live rock between tank and sump. I have just recently increased the sand bed in the main tank from 1/2 inch to 4 inches---not in the areas where there is rock reef)

the refugium is a deepsand bed/ reef rock rubble

I am running a protein skimmer and filter sock in the sump--soon to be replaced with a mineral mud/ mango fug.

Once this occurs I will no longer need the filter sock(not really necessary now) and the protein skimmer. But I will still keep the phosban and carbon reactors.

Since my focus is on creating more variety of inverts in the main tank---my refugium functions as that and the flow is reduced accordingly---if I wanted it as filtration then the flow rate would have to be really increased. This is why I want the separate mud based refugium.

Aquarist007
10/03/2007, 02:01 PM
I don't want to bore other guys with these pictures--they have probably seen them enough. Here is the link to some more pictures of my system.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1219876

Aquarist007
10/03/2007, 02:03 PM
here is a thread on live rock that is developing:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1219529

Aquarist007
10/03/2007, 02:09 PM
and this is where I would like to end up with my filtration system:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1207565

NeveSSL
10/03/2007, 03:44 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10895662#post10895662 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Chago09
I don't understand, I though live rock only is the way to go??? isn't that the reefers filtration????


Live Rock is definitely the way to go, but I don't think I'd try to use it by itself, personally. I would just feel more comfortable also having a deep sand bed somewhere (I personally have a 4" sandbed in my display and refugium) and also protein skimming.

I think I probably have 70 to 80 lbs of rock between my 45g and refugium.

Brandon

Aquarist007
10/04/2007, 12:40 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10896611#post10896611 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by NeveSSL
Live Rock is definitely the way to go, but I don't think I'd try to use it by itself, personally. I would just feel more comfortable also having a deep sand bed somewhere (I personally have a 4" sandbed in my display and refugium) and also protein skimming.

I think I probably have 70 to 80 lbs of rock between my 45g and refugium.

Brandon

and you are doing it correctly! I think I will always run the protein skimmer but not as much(24/7)