Entire colony Gonioporo polyps just up & moved out of their skeleton

[380reef]

History:

Set up a 380 gal tank and it came into balance mid May of 07. Lighting is three 10K, 150Watt Coralife halides (8 hrs/day) & six (65watt Actinic 14/hrs per day.) DSB setup. All water supplied/replaced is RO/DI.

I added both fish, corals, & “tank janitors” slowly over the next 3 months. Fish & most coral doing fine. Water parameters all “good” with PH @ 8.2….Alk @ 10DK. Zero nitrite/ammonia, Nitrate @ 10. I have green algae growing at a much faster rate than I feel it should be. Running a large preteen skimmer & UV. Using a chiller to maintain temp @ 78 degrees F. All fish are doing very well.

Problem history:
Tried a yellow leather that never extend its polyps & finally had to be removed. Tried Xenia that slowly dwindled away.

Immediate problem/Question:
Until 3 weeks ago rest corals grew & flourished. Then an entire colony Gonioporo polyps just up & moved out of their skeleton All the polyps still looked good & survived for a few days, as a mass rolling along the bottom. Now the same thing is beginning to happen to my torch & trumpet. Polyps (that seemingly are totally healthy) ejecting themselves from their skeletons.

Any & all suggestions most appreciated.

I do have two, very large, very healthy, Caribbean anemones in this tank. Could they be a problem? They are not in contact & have never been with any of the affected corals.

[Bri Guy]

You don't mention your Ca levels?

What kinda flow was pushing over the corals that did that?

Sorry I can't really help, but you found the right place for help.

[welcome]

[Reefer Steve]

Sounds like polyp bail out, id like to hear more about this.

[LesMartin]

Have you checked the Phosphate level ? Relatively low nitrates and green algae growing faster than you'd expect might indicate high phosphates.

[bertoni]

Polyp bailout is a sign of stress. Alkalinity, calcium, and phosphate are the basics to test. You might also try raising the temperature a bit. 78 F is on the low side.

Does the system have activated carbon filtration? What is the water change schedule?

[380reef]

First, thanks for the quick response, from each of you. I will try to respond to each in order.

Bri Guy: Ca levels? New to me, I will need to obtain a test kit (that must exist) any recommendations?
Flow: I feel less the experienced enough to use a term like hard, moderate, or mild, seems they are used in articles re current, but relative to what? That is my problem. So, by observation, I will relate it this way. When food is placed in for the fish, then timed by a 12 wide marker (placed at nearly the center bottom of the tank, the locations of problem corals) it takes 4 to 6 seconds to cover that distance.
FYI: I have a pair of pumps, that alternate (via timers). They reverse the circular flow around the perimeter of the tank every 6 hours. Do you think it would be helpful to make that happen more frequently? If so what interval might you suggest?

Reefer Steve …I like that, any hidden message there?
“Polyp bail out” Good name for it, perfect description . Is there a reason/s? Please point them out, this is not good! I need help.

LesMartin: Same answer I had to give to Bri Guy, Will need to find a test kit, Again please, Any kit recommendations?

Bertoni: You seemed to have summed this up, Looks as though, I need to invest in additional test kits. You beat me to the most obvious question that it appears I should be asking, water changes…..”Water changes”, I read a lot of debate over how often & what percent, how it depends on the quality of Evap replacement water, Etc. In the real world of “successful reef tank maintainers, I would much appreciate a response to that question, from any/all who fit the description.
I may bet a bit ashamed at admitting this, after I hear the response/s, but to date I have not done one. First life introduced to this setup, 4-1-07, Load still just 10% of recommended max. A 30%, change has been heavy on my mind, the past couple weeks however. ):

Carbon? Again, I read the debate, & again I cherish response to the question, to you Guys & Gals (who have this figured out via experience & success) please! let me hear from you. …….. And no, I am not using it.

Higher temp is easy in Tampa, just turn up the chiller, Spend the $s saved, on test kits (such a deal). +3 …82, sound OK?

Best regards to each of you! And thanks for your kind responses
Paul Ketchum

[bertoni]

I change 20-25% once a month for my tanks, when I'm good. 10-15% twice a month is likely better. In this situation, I'd probably do a series of 30% changes, perhaps 3-4 of them. The need for water changes is hard to quantify, though.

I run carbon 24x7. It can remove various organic compounds from the water, including possible allelopathic toxins.

I'd raise the temperature slowly to 82 F, personally, over 4-6 weeks. No need to hurry.

[380reef]

Jonathan:
Again, thanks for your time/response!!

I purchased both Calcium & Phosphate kits today, results:
Phosphate @ .08: Water changes will occure ASAP, per your recommendation. Re water change, I heard the exact statements when I purchased the test kits this afternoon. Same % & frequency. With that, came the suggestion of/for a calcium reactor also, for this size tank. Are you in agreement with that?

Calcium @ 315. I will start calk water drip tonight.
I started temp change this am & will continue that, as per your suggestion, also.

Could you give me some concept of how many Lbs of carbon I should implement & the replacement schedule for it? How many GPD should go thru it?

So, where does the phosphate come from, the only thing going into the tank is about ½ oz of frozen food per day, to sustain the fish, anemones & shrimp? They consume all in 2 or 3 minuets, am I missing something? Is it a by-product of that consumption?

Thanks so much
Paul

[Steve973]

When you're adding kalkwasser, be careful with your alkalinity levels. While trying to push calcium up another 100 ppm, make sure your alkalinity doesn't skyrocket. It's already high enough. Phosphate can come from food, but it can also come from your water. Are you using RO/DI water? If not, test phosphate levels after you mix a fresh batch of replacement water. If you have phosphates there, it's time to think about another source of water, or some (better) purification method.

[bertoni]

I would use some calcium chloride to raise the calcium level. Kent Turbo Calcium is one product that works, and there's a DIY source, too. I agree that an alkalinity number is important to have.

The phosphate is most likely from the food, although live rock sometimes arrives contaminated. I'd recommend a PhosBan reactor or a similar GFO. .08 ppm phosphate is bad. The amount of time the fish take to eat the food isn't very relevant, although that idea is common. Most of what the fish eat comes back out. :)

For that size tank, I might start with a cube or two of frozen Formula 1 per day, as a beginning estimate.

For that size tank, I'd personally run a full PhosBan reactor of carbon. There are likely more convenient choices than the PhosBan setup, though.

[Steve973]

What brand is your test kit, 380reef? I use Salifert, and I can never detect phosphates in my tank, but I don't use any media that removes it, either.

[Zedar]

Steve,

Tropic Marin makes a phosphate test kit.

I always read 0 on the Salifert kit. And have read here on RC a lot of people saying the same about Salifert phosphate kit.

Tropic Marin is easy/easier to read then most out there.

[Steve973]

Maybe I'll give that a try. Thanks for the advice. I really think that the Salifert Nitrate test kit is good. Of course, let me know if you have a differing opinion since I don't have a lot of experience with different test kits, and I would have no way of knowing which one(s) are accurate and which one(s) are not.

[Zedar]

Salifert is excellent for everything but PO4.

[Steve973]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10941029#post10941029 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bertoni
.08 ppm phosphate is bad.

What's the conversion for mg/L to ppm for phosphate?

[Reefer Steve]

Hey just curious have any of those bailed polyps attached themselves to some kinda of substrate? Borneman says they only have a few days before they just flat out die, but they can attach themselves.
Be very interesting if they did...

[Steve973]

Goniopora is one of the most difficult corals to keep. I wouldn't interpret a failure to keep it as an overall reflection of the quality of your system, anyway.

[bertoni]

mg/L and ppm are the same, for hobbyist purposes. The difference is about 2%.

[380reef]

Jonathan: So you are suggesting that I use a pair of PhosBan reactor units, (or some similar unit) fill one with carbon & one with PhosBan? That sounds like a plan worth pursuing to me.

Steve973: The test kit is both a phosphate & Nitrate combo kit, manufactured by Instant Ocean & distributed by Aquarium Systems. It has instructions for a 0-1 & 0 – 5 Mg/L Phosphate ranges. 0 – 100 Mg/L for Nitrate range. Thanks for your encouragement re Goniopora difficulty, I really like the species however & have 2 other colonies that are doing fine, so far. My trumpet is also bailing.

Reefer Steve: There are a few surviving pieces (that I can see) trying to hang on the sub- straight. I do not have much hope for them.

[bertoni]

I'd probably run two PhosBan units for that size tank. There might be equivalent and cheaper equipment that can handle the same volume, though.