View Full Version : InstantOcean questions...
cmejaf30
10/08/2007, 09:51 AM
Hi all...I have a question regarding different types of salt mixes. I'm in the process of still setting up my 55 and I'm all the way up to adding water. I went to the LFS this weekend to get some biohome and water conditioner and we got on the topic of salts. He asked what brand I was doing to be using and I said Instant Ocean (IO). He just winced and then showed me a printoff showing that Instant OCean had 210,000 times the concentration of copper (or lead...not sure which one) than natural seawater. He told be to buy a different brand (and for the life of me I can't remember which brand) and told me to get rid of the IO. My question...does anyone else feel the same way? Has anyone had any issues with IO? Is it a good salt to use? I've used it on my FO tank for three years and never had any issue (then again I only had a dottyback and two yellow-tailed damsels in the tank). Is the IO going to hurt my tank and should I really stay away from it? I just bought a big five-gallon bucket of it and can't return it...that's a lot of salt to just go to waste. Any advice would be greatly appreciate. Thanks!!
JLopez
10/08/2007, 10:00 AM
i used instant ocean and no problems thus far...actually i always heard it was the best one to use
You mention setting up a 55 gallon tank but failed to mention how you will be stocking the tank - that is a big consideration for which salt (and supplements) to use. IO is a very good salt that alot of hobbiest use (check RC polls) and I have used successfully for 6 years - it is a good base salt (has the key trace elements) and is low on Mg, Ca and Alk. As I have migrated from very basic hardy corals to more demanding spc that are less forgiving, I have changed to Reef Crustals which is higher for Mg, Ca and Alk. So the answer to yoru questions is it depends on what you wantt o keep for corals - IO is no problem as you know for FO.
acrylic_300
10/08/2007, 10:30 AM
The World's Largest Aquarium uses it. I don't think they would spend that kind of money on livestock only to kill it with cheap salt mix.
I wouldn't listen too closely to someone selling me conditioner for a marine setup.
HowardW
10/08/2007, 11:35 AM
<<< The World's Largest Aquarium uses it. I don't think they would spend that kind of money on livestock only to kill it with cheap salt mix. >>>
Without making any comments on Instant Ocean or any other salt in particular, just because the worlds largest aquarium or any other large institutional type place uses a specific salt should not be a ringing endorsement IMO. Many of the larger aquariums and large exhibits may use a particular brand salt simply based on cost and ready availability in large quantities and not necessarily because they feel it's the absolute best product or anything even close.
a2fire2i
10/08/2007, 11:43 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10927737#post10927737 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by acrylic_300
I wouldn't listen too closely to someone selling me conditioner for a marine setup.
Agreed! Did the LFS employee tell you which brand of salt they use in their tanks?
Boomer
10/08/2007, 12:06 PM
cmejaf30
He just winced and then showed me a printoff showing that Instant OCean had 210,000 times the concentration of copper (or lead...not sure which one) than natural seawater. He told be to buy a different brand
And who was that and where ??
A Chemical Analysis of Select Trace Elements in Synthetic Sea Salts and Natural Seawater
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/sept2004/feature.htm
And on all tests copper was not detected, ND. Now if it was 210,000 times as calimed and NSW is .0001 ppm then
210,000 x .0001 = 21 ppm copper and all life forms would more than dead.
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/images/sept2004/Fig1_trace_element.jpg
cmejaf30
10/08/2007, 12:32 PM
Wow tahnks for all the good info. Yea i was talking to him about using RO/DI water vs just conditioned tap water for my tank to start off with. I'm not going to have any coral in it to begin with...I have about 70lbs of sand (for the display and refug) along with about 45lbs of LR. I'm just going to use a conditioner and use tap water to start off the cycle. As I do water changes in the next weeks and months, I'll use RO/DI water. As far as the LFS guy...he said the store uses the Oceanic Sea Salt which is what he told me to buy.
Anyways, as a side note, I'm starting to think that the guy was FOS (full of you-know-what). He was the manager, and I know the guy has given me some conflicting advice in the past. Thanks for the reference, Boomer, and the research proving it. I'm printing it off and am going to head over there and see what he has to say about that. I'm also going to return the salt he bought. I've been using IO for three years and haven't had issues. Like you stated, if it was that high, then nothing would survive!! Thanks again for all the advice!!!!!!!
cmejaf30
10/08/2007, 12:49 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10927658#post10927658 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by besl
You mention setting up a 55 gallon tank but failed to mention how you will be stocking the tank - that is a big consideration for which salt (and supplements) to use.
I'm going to stock the tank with just rock and one percula to cycle the tank. Like i said, I've got about 70lbs of live sand and about 20gallons of established water that I'm giong to use so I don't think it will take too long to cycle and get ready. Thanks again for all the advice. Any more input/opinions are greatly appreciated!!
msn711
10/08/2007, 01:10 PM
Yea i was talking to him about using RO/DI water vs just conditioned tap water for my tank to start off with. I'm not going to have any coral in it to begin with...I have about 70lbs of sand (for the display and refug) along with about 45lbs of LR. I'm just going to use a conditioner and use tap water to start off the cycle. As I do water changes in the next weeks and months, I'll use RO/DI water. As far as the LFS guy...he said the store uses the Oceanic Sea Salt which is what he told me to buy.
Let me save you some trouble. I tried taht back when I was a beginner, and it doesn't work. The tap water will create all kinds of algae issues, and in my experience, I just couldn't get corals to stay alive in tap water. I think you'll constantly be battling issues in the tank down the road if you use tap water, mostly because we usually don't know what's in tap water (unless you go through the trouble of getting a water quality report). Save yourself the hassle and just use RODI from the beginning.
I'm going to stock the tank with just rock and one percula to cycle the tank.
No need to stress the percula like this. Your tank will cycle just fine with only live rock. If for some reason you think that's not enough, a raw shrimp will definitely do the trick.
cmejaf30
10/08/2007, 01:25 PM
Thanks for the heads up...I wasn't sure which to do. So it's not necessary to have a fish in there to cycle the tank?? I thought you always needed something in there producing ammonia to "cycle" the tank and ensure that your nitrifying bacteria have something to "eat." I'm not completely up to speed on the whole cycling process but I was always told you needed a fish in there.
cmejaf30
10/08/2007, 01:29 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10928791#post10928791 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by msn711
Let me save you some trouble. I tried taht back when I was a beginner, and it doesn't work. The tap water will create all kinds of algae issues, and in my experience, I just couldn't get corals to stay alive in tap water.
I've used tap water in the tank that I have up now and I haven't had any problems. Could it be that I lucked out and have decent tap water? Should I still just use RODI water? It's not expensive to buy...just a pain in the arssss to haul 50-some gallons of water in a car and making multiple trips to the LFS. Any suggestions on transporting water other than 5gal buckets??
msn711
10/08/2007, 03:05 PM
If you are using live rock, then there are live organisms present (albeit small) that die off in the course of the rock being transported from the ocean to your tank. This will provide sufficient ammonia to start a cycle. And if for some odd reason it didn't, a raw shrimp rotting away will provide the ammonia withotu stressing the fish. Using a live fish to cycle is an outdated method.
In my experience, tap water is not a problem in a fish only tank, but just doesn't work for 99% of people in reef tanks. Once you start adding corals, despite however many water changes you've tried to do, whatever nutriets, heavy metals, impurities, etc. that are present in the tap water will still be in the tank to some degree and cause problems for the corals. In my case, they just slowly withered away with no other explanation.
I know what you mean about hauling the water. When I had a second floor apartment, I finally gave up and bought an RODI unit. They're not expensive, definitely worth the cost, and will save you a great deal of trouble in hauling water. If you're like me and worried about hooking it up (I avoid DIY work like the plague), the faucet adaptors can hook right up to the kitchen sink quite easily. For anything bigger than a nano, it's definitely worth it to have your own unit.
cmejaf30
10/09/2007, 06:09 AM
Sounds good. Thanks for all the advice. I'm probably going to just have to invest in an RODI unit that hooks up under the sink. The g/f will love having pure water to drink so at least she won't be on me about spending more money!! Thanks for the advice too about using tap water in a FO vs reef. I'll definately just start out with the RODI water.
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