How to get coraline when there is none

[Embowe]

I bought about 40lbs of marco rock and seeded it with a little LR from my local LFS...the thing is the LR I am seeding it with has no coraline on it at all...how would I got about eventually getting coraline to grow on my marco rock...from what I understand coraline must be in the tank somwhere for it to end up spreading...should I go buy a nice piece of LR with coraline on it and put that in there? Or is there a different way to do it....I am assuming my marco rock is coming along quite well (I already am well into my diatom outbreak)

[JetCat USA]

yes, get a piece with nice coralline growth on it and place it in the tank with high flow directed around it.

[an411]

I am not 100% on this I think that there is some type of additive that adds coralline to your tank someone else probably will be able to give you the exact name if not then as JetCat USA said add a piece of LR with some one there. It will not grow if there is no coralline present in the tank

[Embowe]

I know they sell Purple Up, which as I see it, is essentially liquid calcium...if thats what your talking about..I just need to get a nice piece from a LFS thats covered and use that...thanks

[95accord]

how fast does coraline algea grow? i seem to have lost some in some parts of my tank and gained some in other parts...but id like to make is spread evenlly accross a large portion of my tank? any ways i can help improve the growth?

[stingythingy45]

Yeah,the stuff is called"Purple Up".
But i'm really not sure if it adds any coralline growth or just helps what you have grow.Heard all kinds of good....and bad about it.
I personally think if you just get some LR rubble with coralline on it and keep your parameters in check,Ca,Mg. it will grow.

[mikemartinez]

Just keep you CA and MG correct and it will grow... I was told that Purple up is basically just CA and MG...

[der_wille_zur_macht]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10956555#post10956555 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mikemartinez
Just keep you CA and MG correct and it will grow... I was told that Purple up is basically just CA and MG...

It probably has a carbonate component to help keep alkalinity up, too.

I'll echo what people above said - provide a source to seed the tank, keep your Ca, alk, MG, and pH correct, and it'll grow fast. Bonus points for good lighting, too.

If you really want it to spread quickly all over your tank, get some pieces of well-encrusted live rock rubble and crush them into small bits (like quarter of an inch or so). Then, spread these tiny rock fragments all over your existing rockwork. This will provide seed points evenly across your system, helping it to spread quickly.

[kevin2000]

An inexpensive method for introducing coralline algae spoors is to purchase some old turbo snails who's shells are encrusted with coralline ... as they move through the tank they rub there shells on LR and tank walls spreading the spoors.

[fishox]

I have found that using the two part solutions such as B-Ionic works wonders for growing coraline algae. Maintaining consistent Alk and Ca readings is the key. I think the lighting has more impact on the color than on promoting growth. The purple stuff grows in higher light areas in my experience. I get pink and green encrusting algae in my lower light areas such as the sump.

[Nanemene]

I bought a bottle of Purple Up, and dosed it once per day. The stuff started growing everywhere. I don't know or care why, but it did the trick.

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10956679#post10956679 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by der_wille_zur_macht
It probably has a carbonate component to help keep alkalinity up, too.

I'll echo what people above said - provide a source to seed the tank, keep your Ca, alk, MG, and pH correct, and it'll grow fast. Bonus points for good lighting, too.

If you really want it to spread quickly all over your tank, get some pieces of well-encrusted live rock rubble and crush them into small bits (like quarter of an inch or so). Then, spread these tiny rock fragments all over your existing rockwork. This will provide seed points evenly across your system, helping it to spread quickly.

or just collect the scrapings from the glass of another tank

[Mavrk]

Calcium, Alkalinity, and Magnesium (and pH) should be in balance just as with a reef setup.

Along the lines of what capn is saying... Once it is on your glass, if you scrape it off it will help seed the rocks.

[95accord]

nice. im interested in gettign some. gonna go check out my LFS after work see if they carry any

[Mavrk]

Most cured live rock will have some on it. Even snails often have them as mentioned above. Even if your levels are perfect, without some coralline to seed it there will be no growth.

[moo0o]

IMO purple up is a waste of money, just keep your calc alk and mag at acceptable levels and coralline will grow fine...as long as there IS coralline in your tank to begin with.

[Aquarist007]

agree calcium 400 or so but run your alk a little high for quicker growth--around 12.5 should do it.
Lighting is a factor too--my sump light is on 24/7 and the sides are no longer see through cause of corraline.

[jadeguppy]

How are you guys testing you ca, alk, and mag?

[kevin2000]

No offense to others who have posted ... but you really don't need additives to get decent coralline growth .. regular water changes with any of the popular salt brands (combined with exisitng algae spoors) will provide sufficient alk, calc, and mag to get coralline algae. Patience is probably the only thing missing in this equation.

[RobNJ]

since your in nj you could stop over my house and collect some scrapings from my tank glass, god knows i have enough

[kysard1]

When my coralline took of it consumed 1 dKH per day. That would be a lot of water changes to keep up. I highly recommend kalkwasser or a 2 part.

[RobNJ]

Kalkwasser is the easiest IMO

[Mavrk]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10959277#post10959277 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kevin2000
No offense to others who have posted ... but you really don't need additives to get decent coralline growth .. regular water changes with any of the popular salt brands (combined with exisitng algae spoors) will provide sufficient alk, calc, and mag to get coralline algae. Patience is probably the only thing missing in this equation.

Many salts are deficient in at least one of these areas. In addition, growth of coralline will deplete these numbers. That being said, never dose anything without testing for it first.

[kevin2000]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10960580#post10960580 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Mavrk
Many salts are deficient in at least one of these areas. In addition, growth of coralline will deplete these numbers. That being said, never dose anything without testing for it first.

IMO opinion that splitting hairs and all of the popular brands of salt have sufficient quantities of all of the essential components to have coralline algae. Having two turkeys at the table at thanksgiving isn't going to make the meal any more nutritious.

[demonsp]

Sorry didnt read all post just giveing my 2 cents. Worring about this is the last thing you should be concerned with . Stick with water readings , useing good ro water , doing your water changes , keeping tank balanced and when you start to see growth then thats the sign that your tanks doing great. Then before you know it it will grow faster then you can scrape it off the glass.
I used purple up and saw no visiable differance in growth.
Shoot for the pink coraline much better.

[m2434]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10959277#post10959277 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kevin2000
No offense to others who have posted ... but you really don't need additives to get decent coralline growth .. regular water changes with any of the popular salt brands (combined with exisitng algae spoors) will provide sufficient alk, calc, and mag to get coralline algae. Patience is probably the only thing missing in this equation.


Not always true.

It is benificial to have supersaturated bicarbonate, this will not typically occur with just salt additions. Mag is needed to keep calcium and alk levels stable and many salt brands are low in mag due to expenses. In addition, stoney corals drain what is there, as will normal precipitation, so for many tanks unless you have nothing but softies, you probably want to add stuff, (depending on your salt, you may want to add stuff anyway). Also phosphate can inhibit calcification, so keep very low.

[demonsp]

With all the things that can go wrong at anytime , its easy to check off salt quality if you use good salt. Cheap salts could be missing key elements and have unwanted algea and be more difficult to mix thourly. GL

[m2434]

Even "good" salts may be missing some key elements. The compositions vary quite a bit and none really match NSW.

[JetCat USA]

I'm curious which salt brands it is y'all are suggesting won't keep a tank based on regular water changes alone???? fact is many nano tanks get no additives at all, they use water changes as their Only means of nutrient export and supplementation with no additives used at all.

my old 29g setup had excellent coralline growth, the only thing i ever did to that tank was do a 5g a week water change with IO. IO being one of the most criticized salt mixes out there but I've had excellent results with it for the last 25 yrs sense swapping from Fathoms Forty.

[Mavrk]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10961507#post10961507 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by JetCat USA
I'm curious which salt brands it is y'all are suggesting won't keep a tank based on regular water changes alone???? fact is many nano tanks get no additives at all, they use water changes as their Only means of nutrient export and supplementation with no additives used at all.

my old 29g setup had excellent coralline growth, the only thing i ever did to that tank was do a 5g a week water change with IO. IO being one of the most criticized salt mixes out there but I've had excellent results with it for the last 25 yrs sense swapping from Fathoms Forty.

Oceanic for one. High Calcium, Low Alkalinity.

[demonsp]

Oceanic natural sea salt.

[JetCat USA]

i was given a few buckets of Oceanic and while i really didn't care for it at all because of the elevated Ca levels, it came in around 6 dKH IIRC which is more then acceptable for coralline growth.

[Mavrk]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10961574#post10961574 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by JetCat USA
i was given a few buckets of Oceanic and while i really didn't care for it at all because of the elevated Ca levels, it came in around 6 dKH IIRC which is more then acceptable for coralline growth.

Then perhaps I spoke permaturely. I was thinking more along the lines of optimum coralline growth. Would you say regular water changes would still fall under this catagory (an honest question, not a retorical snide remark)? :D

[JetCat USA]

prolly a bit out of your way to drop by and see for yourself so you're welcome to give Dr Mac a call over at Pacific East Aquaculture, they have several of the 12g Current USA tanks setup as reefs with all sorts of corals from softies to SPS, they all have excellent growth and coralline growth, he only does 5g/week water changes on those with Oceanic salt so don't take my word for it.

regular water changes will promote coralline growth, sure you can provide more optimal conditions to try and get faster growth but trying to say Kevin was wrong is/was wrong on your part, his statement was correct that you'll get decent coralline growth from regular water changes.

[m2434]

With IO left to it's own devices and no supplements, in my 20G, with 4 LPS corals, I get a dKH of around 6 and ~340-360ppm ca within a day or two after a weekly 10% water change. I've never been able to get purple Coraline to grow at this level... Grows much better around dKH 11-12. Although it should be noted that, high ca can compensate for low dKH, so that could help, and might explain some success with Oceanic. However, high dKH and high ca works much better :D.

To accomplish this you either need to constantly add buffer and ca or keep mag levels up (or keep pH down, but this is very counterproductive as corals and coralline algae calcification occurs better at high pH). I won't claim it's impossible to grow coralline with just water changes, but in my experience it's much more difficult than necessaryat best...

[Mavrk]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10961648#post10961648 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by JetCat USA
trying to say Kevin was wrong is/was wrong on your part, his statement was correct that you'll get decent coralline growth from regular water changes.

Apologies. The one thing I don't think I was wrong about IMO is never dose anything without testing for it first. :D

[JetCat USA]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10961719#post10961719 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by m2434
With IO left to it's own devices and no supplements, in my 20G, with 4 LPS corals, I get a dKH of around 6 and ~340-360ppm ca within a day or two after a weekly 10% water change. I've never been able to get purple Coraline to grow at this level... Grows much better around dKH 11-12. Although it should be noted that, high ca can compensate for low dKH, so that could help, and might explain some success with Oceanic. However, high dKH and high ca works much better :D.


had to dig to find pics of the old 29 mentioned above but here one is, it never had anything but weekly 5g water changes with IO.

http://i20.*******.com/16kb9n9.jpg

and when i was too lazy to scrape the glass:
http://i20.*******.com/2rh2nwg.jpg

personally i keep all my systems around 8-9 dKH and Ca at 400, i get excellent growth from corals and coralline, there is no reason to run a higher Alk like suggested, it even causes STN in allot of SPS

my 180 kept at 8 dKH and Ca 400
http://i24.*******.com/5zpiwx.jpg

and when I'm to lazy to scrape the glass on it :)
http://i24.*******.com/14curtj.jpg

[JetCat USA]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10961732#post10961732 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Mavrk
The one thing I don't think I was wrong about IMO is never dose anything without testing for it first. :D

i agree with that 100%

[moo0o]

woowow crazy growth, i should start doing regular water changes!

[m2434]

JetCat you were doing 17% water changes every week?
I don't know if IO changed their formula or if you have magic water, but I can't get results like that with either of my tanks with 10% changes don't really want to do more than that.

Realistically, there are many factors,

- you could have had rock with high mag bicarbonate or ca levels etc... and a propensity to dissolve

- could have started with more coralline on your liverock...

- your corals ca and bicarbonate demand possibly wasn't really that high

- different levels of skimming, phosphate, nitrate, silicate etc.. all affect Coraline growth.

sorry not really scientific here, just pointing out that there are many possible factors and the list could certainly be expanded.
I never doubted you got good coralline growth, my point is that water changes may be enough in some cases but not others...

As a side note, I know Randy Holmes-Farley in the past has recommended dKH between 7-11. I've had success only at the higher end of this spectrum, but that could be due to other factors. Regardless it is not guaranteed that you will get coralline with water changes alone and this is a blanket statement that ignores many other factors. And these are other factors that can help (or hurt)... Maybe it is possible to get coraline algae with water changes alone given x, y, z etc.. are also true.


Sorry to go off on a tangent, but I've seen plenty of tanks including my own were coralline doesn't come that easy and frankly I'm very jealous :D

[Mavrk]

Someone here posted a pic of their 4 week old tank that was covered in coralline already. I remember they were keeping their parameters at the same level as you would for corals. Now I see the tanks above where just water changes did the same thing. I think some people just have a purple thumb.

Mine is growing relatively slowly in my new tank, but at least it is growing. I know there will come a day when I have the stuff all over everything and rue the day I wished I had more :D

[JetCat USA]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10962116#post10962116 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by m2434
JetCat you were doing 17% water changes every week?
I don't know if IO changed their formula or if you have magic water, but I can't get results like that with either of my tanks with 10% changes don't really want to do more than that.

do bigger water changes or do them more often, 5g a week on a 29 isn't gonna brake anyones bank.

Realistically, there are many factors,

- you could have had rock with high mag bicarbonate or ca levels etc... and a propensity to dissolvep.

come on now, let's be realistic, in order to get Ca from the rock it would have to have a pH below 7.6 and to get Mg in the low 6s, everything in the tank would be dead at those levels.

- could have started with more coralline on your liverock...

could have, but i didn't, i got the rock from a place out of Florida called ReeferRocks (you know dead rock, mined out of the ground), i wanted a single large rock in the tank and i wasn't gonna pay 6 bucks a lb for it, if you'll look in the pic on the right side of the tank there is but one rock with heavy coralline growth that was placed in there to seed it, there was however ALLOT of flow in the tank, hence the reason for needing twin overflows.

- your corals ca and bicarbonate demand possibly wasn't really that high

has nothing at all what so ever to do with coralline growth, you're reaching here rather then just accepting you were wrong about the water changes.

- different levels of skimming, phosphate, nitrate, silicate etc.. all affect Coraline growth.

i never said otherwise and water changes keep those from building up in the system otherwise supplementing would be a much better choice, the only reason water changes aren't practical on large systems is because it can get quiet $$$.

sorry not really scientific here, just pointing out that there are many possible factors and the list could certainly be expanded.
I never doubted you got good coralline growth, my point is that water changes may be enough in some cases but not others...

they'll always be enough, they may not be the most logical and least expensive but they'll always be enough. on a VERY high demand tank it may take 50% daily but if you do them, it'll take care of the tanks demands.

As a side note, I know Randy Holmes-Farley in the past has recommended dKH between 7-11. I've had success only at the higher end of this spectrum, but that could be due to other factors. Regardless it is not guaranteed that you will get coralline with water changes alone and this is a blanket statement that ignores many other factors. And these are other factors that can help (or hurt)... Maybe it is possible to get coraline algae with water changes alone given x, y, z etc.. are also true.

if you take any tank, yes any tank, add some clean base rock, toss in one rock with coralline on it, give it the proper light and lots of flow, do 10% water changes weekly and do nothing else to the tank, don't add fish/inverts/food/etc....... the coralline will not only grow it'll thrive. all the x/y/z's can be take care of with water changes, the quantity of those changes can vary with different x/y/z factors.


Sorry to go off on a tangent, but I've seen plenty of tanks including my own were coralline doesn't come that easy and frankly I'm very jealous :D

step up your water changes, stop knocking it till you try it.

[JetCat USA]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10962269#post10962269 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Mavrk
Someone here posted a pic of their 4 week old tank that was covered in coralline already.

i posted pics a couple of weeks ago of the 90g i setup about a month before the post because i was taking down my 180 for the remodeling, the 90 had significant coralline growth on the overflow and the bottom glass in less then 4 weeks.

[demonsp]

If your tank is more then 3 months young and you have no growth then there is a problem with the water quality. Mb high levels or inconsistant reading. Reading elevate and decrease to often. Need steady readings with proper water changes and level readings it should grow without problems.

[m2434]

"they may not be the most logical and least expensive but they'll always be enough. on a VERY high demand tank it may take 50% daily but if you do them, it'll take care of the tanks demands."

First I do admit my factors wern't choosen well, Lighting, feeding and current are probably better factors.

Second, If you change the words "they'll always be enough", to "they'll always be enough if", then you more or less made my point for me.

[JetCat USA]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10962424#post10962424 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by m2434

Second, If you change the words "they'll always be enough", to "they'll always be enough if", then you more or less made my point for me.

You're reaching again. the if has nothing to do with it, you said plain and simple that water changes wouldn't suffice in all cases, fact still stands they'll always be enough in every case. are they the most practical and economical way?? nope, not always, but they'll still always be enough for ANY tank. hell you put enough IO in Lake Mead you can grow corals/coralline on the Hoover dam.

[m2434]

JetCat your a nut! :D I'ts been fun arguing with you though. :p

[JetCat USA]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10962515#post10962515 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by m2434
JetCat your a nut! :D I'ts been fun arguing with you though. :p

you don't like to admit you were wrong huh? :lol:

just FYI if i were to dump the IO into Lake Mead I'd have to go with 30ppt over my usual 35ppt to save the $$$ on salt :)

[Embowe]

The way I see it..I need to have atleast a LITTLE in the tank so I can get it to spread...off to find a nice rock covered in it...

[95accord]

i have a few rocks just covered in the stuff...and it doesnt seem to grow...if anything it seems to be shrinking. mind you i havent been testing fo Calc/Alk....but ive been doing regular water changes.
im upgrading to T5 lighting in a couple weeks which i assume wont hurt coraline growth :p.
but anything else i can do in the mean time to help speed things up? (no purple up in my area......) any household items which could increase the proper nutrients?

[m2434]

Embowe, of course you need some, but you only need a little, if you have anything from another tank, or the ocean, you probably have enough (even if it is not visible). If you want to accelerate it, buy a small piece of live-rock with good growth and smash it into little pieces and dust with a hammer. Then, sprinkle the dust over your rocks.

95accord test for alk and ca! You can add buffer and ca (2 part works great) or as JetCat has suggested :D you could possibly increase your water changes.

Also, I've hear people say that toxins from some softcorals can
inhibit coraline growth, in addition to coral growth, but I have no idea if there is any truth to this.

[vessxpress1]

FWIW guys, I used to have a ton of coraline algae growth in my tank. I believe lights and types of coraline algae play a big role, in addition to keeping your pH, Ca, Mg and alk levels up.

When I was running 2 96w pcs, my whole tank got covered. The back glass was covered and then it started caking on top of itself back there. All rocks were covered.

Then I switched to T-5s and the tank was super bright purple for a while. Looked really neat. Then I soon had a huge die off. All of it turned white and fell off. Some grew back of course, but it's never come back like it used to be.

My parameters are all fine. I dose kalk with my top off and also use B-ionic daily. Not much coraline to be found on my rocks, except if you turn them over. It grows fine in any and all dark areas of the tank. A few blotches scattered on the back glass but doesn't grow nearly like it used to. No clue what's inhibiting it now but it simply won't grow on my rocks anymore. Then some people have halides blasting their rock and it grows fine. I have no explanation and would like to find out what's going on myself.

Honestly, I'm about ready to switch back to purple-up for a while and see what happens, just as an expiriment to see if I can get it growing on my rocks again.