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View Full Version : Lets plan plumbing! Advice needed.....


Scuba_Steve
10/13/2007, 11:07 AM
http://images5.theimagehosting.com/plumbing.1d3.th.JPG (http://server5.theimagehosting.com/image.php?img=plumbing.1d3.JPG)


Ok, Im still in the late planning stages, (still in Iraq :P) Let me know what you think, and tell me if something doesnt look right, or wont work. I have a fairly simple plumbing setup planned. Lil black ovals stand for ball valves, and lil black lines stand for unions, sometimes just male and female npt in spots that can easily be removed. Thick lines are 3/4 in plumbing, thin is 1/2 in. Spaflex will be used where ever you see bends in the pvc, but will be hard pvc close to the ends.

We will start from the overflow (purple line inside the main tank). I plan on using both bulkheads as drains. The smaller (1/2 in?) will feed directly into the skimmer (ASM G3 Mesh and Recirc modded), with adjustments made with the ball valve close to the main tank. Notice the drain pipe is much lower than the main drain to ensure it is constantly submerged completely. The (3/4 in?) larger pipe will go into a small section filled with rubble first. From there it will go through a 3 baffle bubble trap, to the refugium, and 1 baffle to the return section. A Mag 9.5 will return water to the tank in the center, plumbed over the top.

Next is the closed loop. I dont know if this is possible with a large pump, but I planned on using the same idea from melevs famous 29g cl. The pump is a genx mak4. 3/4 in plumbing will draw water from inside the overflow box (just to ensure nothing accidentally gets sucked up). Notice the T fitting at the top. It will have a cap on top to prime the pump with. It will leave the pump again at 3/4 in, and hit a Y or T fitting and be split into 2 pipes 1/2 in each. Each pipe will go to the ends of the tank to be again plumbed over the top, with a possible penductor on each end.

Now here are my questions. First, can the over the top closed loop be done with a pump as large as a mak4?
Should I go to 1 in plumbing split into 3/4 in legs?
What size bulkheads are the standard Oceanic overflows?
And other thoughts or suggestions?

bertoni
10/13/2007, 05:02 PM
I'd add more baffles to the refugium. How much flow is each pump rated to deliver?

Scuba_Steve
10/13/2007, 09:08 PM
Ok more baffles. I know I didnt depict this in the drawing, but it will have the standard 3 baffle bubble trap right after the skimmer compartment. But I will be pretty flexible as Ill probably be fabing my sump out of acrylic.
So where else would you recommend a baffle?
The pumps
Mag 9.5 950gph 750gph at 5 ft head Probably throttled down to around 500 gph
genx mak4 1190gph There should be no head loss in a closed loop.

poppin_fresh
10/13/2007, 09:32 PM
I dont see the need to run both bulkheads as returns...its a waste IMO. If you are doing is overflowing water to the sump, the stock 1" drain and 3/4" return is sufficient. Why bother to plumb the return up and over?

I would skip the rubble section and just give the overflow water to the skimmer only. Put the return pump in the middle and largest section of the sump and T some water over to the 'fuge. This will allow you control the rate through it so you dont beat the macro to bits.

Also, ditch the spaflex its more of a PITA than its worth for what you are doing. I personally dont like the up and over CL setup because of the whole "priming" thing. And yes there is headloss from a closed loop. The big thing is what is the flow from the outlets? The RC headloss calc will tell you.

:salutes you:

bertoni
10/13/2007, 09:44 PM
Is there a SCWD in the design at the closed loop T? That'll reduce flow a lot.

bertoni
10/13/2007, 09:45 PM
500 gph through the sump seems fine to me.

poppin_fresh
10/13/2007, 09:51 PM
I just wouldn't put 500 gph straight through the 'fuge, unless its a really big 'un!

Scuba_Steve
10/13/2007, 09:52 PM
no scwd, I learned that mistake already, they really bog the flow down.

Scuba_Steve
10/13/2007, 09:55 PM
500gph really that much? It will be a decent sized fuge, about 20g in that section. I always thought you wanted a pretty good flow to get the cheato tumbling.

Scuba_Steve
10/13/2007, 09:57 PM
Oh and the bulkheads are 1 in and 3/4 in? that is good to know. Wouldnt plumbing the skimmer straight to the drain be putting way to much water through it though? I always thought on a recirc skimmer you wanted a slow flow.

poppin_fresh
10/13/2007, 10:05 PM
I would match the over flow speed to the skimmers rating. You can then run the excess off the pump to the 'fuge section and control the amount of flow to the macro. It doesn't take a lot of flow to keep macro happy, like the skimmer it needs time to do its job.

bertoni
10/14/2007, 12:01 AM
I think the refugium would be okay with 500 gph, but adding the T for tuning isn't a bad idea at all.

You might want to add some SeaSwirls or some sort of random flow generator.

Tswifty
10/14/2007, 12:08 AM
Here's what I run... Got a TON of input from RC members while building it...


http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/165449New_Filtration_System.jpg

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/16544955g_Plumbing_Layout4.jpg

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/165449Plumbing.jpg

Scuba_Steve
10/14/2007, 01:19 AM
Random current will be from 4 maxi 1200s on a wavemaker. Starting with my red sea wavemaster, later upgrading to an ac jr. Im tossing sump ideas around right now, as well as flow diverted to the refugium. Here is the problem Im worried about. Ok, 1 drain diverted 3 ways, one to the skimmer, one to the refugium, and one dumping all the rest into the skimmer compartment. Wouldnt slight fluctuations reak havoc on the skimmer? Also, if I adjust one ball valve, the flow will change in the other 2 legs as well. This just seems like it would be complicated, and hard to balance correctly to get the skimmer constant. Someone please chime in to let me know just how touchy recirc skimmers really are to slightly ever changing flows.

Scuba_Steve
10/14/2007, 09:18 PM
^^^

bertoni
10/15/2007, 02:54 PM
I don't know anything about RC skimmers, but I'd avoid fluctuations in the sump level just on basic principles. I don't see why the levels should be stable, although I agree that 3-way tuning might be difficult.

Scuba_Steve
10/15/2007, 10:14 PM
Its not the level im worried about, its the amount of flow going through the skimmer. maybe i will just simplify this all and use a feed pump for it instead of plumbing to the drain........

poppin_fresh
10/15/2007, 10:42 PM
you can use the feed pump, just make sure the drain runs to the compartment the feed pump is in. I would not split the drain and run part of it to the 'fuge. I have mine set up this way and I get a lot of detritus buildup from the drain. Let the skimmer have all the raw water first.