Wave in my tank

[ipluu]

I was at my cousin's dental office and got an email on my blackberry that the controllers were delivered. I rescheduled my dental appointment and rush home to play around with them.

After 2 hrs playing with all diff modes, I was able to get the wave going. The max wave I am able to get on my 80G is about 1 inch. All the soft coral starts to wave nicely and they are all in sync with each other. Those fish chilling at the top end of the tank are moving up and down with the wave. Things at the end of the tank move up and down; ones in the middle wave left and right. I got a little dizzy by looking at wave motion of my fish and coral. They probably need to get use to this and so do I.

Anyone else experiences seasick from the wave action going on in your tank?

Thank you very much for creating such a cool and wonderful equipment.

[GSMguy]

not sea sick but i do enjoy watching the wave

[ipluu]

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x171/ipluu/Video/th_Vid002.jpg (http://s187.photobucket.com/albums/x171/ipluu/Video/?action=view&current=Vid002.flv)

[GSMguy]

fantastic video

[reef / aholic]

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/139055061026_wave_strong_vlrg_9a_widec.jpg

[sherm71tank]

Tang police taking the day off?

[VINH_XUAN]

I don't have one and it's nice to have waves in the tank. Do you think the fishes are happy with that ? How are the corals respond to wave?

[sfsuphysics]

Anyone else curious about the long term skimming effects of having a wave in a tank?

I know the whole point of overflows (whether internal or external) is that they constantly skim a thin layer off the surface (where organics tend to clump up... fat on surface), to be taken somewhere where they can be dealt with. However with a wave constantly moving up and down, you'll be getting a larger "layer" of water that's constantly being pushed over rather than just the a smaller surface layer.

[sherm71tank]

Why wouldn't the overflow still work? Just because the water surface is in a wave form? Seems to me the same amount of water will have to drain regardless of what you do with waves or water movement inside the tank. The return pump still moves the same amount of water. Maybe I just don't get it (wouldn't be the first time either).

[sfsuphysics]

See, it's not the same amount of water that's the issue, is the fact the stuff that mostly gets skimmed is the the junk that's literally floating right on the surface. So you still get the same volume of water, it's just the amount of surface that goes over decreases because you get a larger volume in a shorter time (with a break in between). It's the same reason that any HOB skimmer without a skimming box to pull directly from the top really sucks poo (not literally), they work but not as effectively as they could.

Now I'm just hypothesizing on the potential skimmer issues, not trying to scare anyone away. But I recently read an article about how surge systems can make your skimmer slightly less efficient because while it is the same volume of water moving through your sump you get a huge rush of it all at once, giving your skimmer less time to suck the gunk out. Granted this is quite a bit less volume than a surge, but it could potentially have issues.

[sherm71tank]

If you have enough surface agitation to avoid surface film build up because of your "wave" the net amount of filtration is the same isn't it?

[Fliger]

Plenty of people with the Tunze wavebox and I've never seen complaints about surface skim. I've seen several in person and no surface film.

This post makes me pretty happy. I've only hooked up two and they're on the same side. I have them in sync - and pulsing but I can't get a wave or surge. I'd be happy with half that wave, I wonder if I can create a small wave with two on the 160XL.

Are you at 100%? And about where is your interval? (one more reason that I hate that there are no metrics on the dial!!!!) And are you in Anti-Sync?

Beautiful tank BTW!

[manderx]

you'll be getting a larger "layer" of water that's constantly being pushed over rather than just the a smaller surface layer.

doesn't matter one bit. the total amount of surface proteins going down the drain are the same with a 'thin' layer and a 'thick' layer. it hits equilibrium either way within the range of differences we are talking about. the faster you skim that layer off, the cleaner that water will be. the slower, the dirtier. but it equals out to be the same either way. and even if it wasn't, it should matter if you have a decent protein skimmer in the first place. stuff shouldn't build up to the point where you need that theoretical slight x% help anyway.

[ipluu]

Fliger,

I have 2 pumps on each side. I am on anti-sync, 75% throttle, about 5 little clicks from 0 for pulsing. If I go with the 100%, it will spill for sure.

To adjust pulsing, start at 0 and slowly increase it up. Wait for a minute or two before adjusting again. About 2 very small increments, I got high frequency waves, about 3 waves across my tank width (~~~). With 2 more increments, I got a long, single wave length (~) as you see in the video. When you are adjusting the pulse, stand on the side of the tank and look at your water level. Your tank is longer and much bigger so it will be a little different on the pulsing speed. For your tank, you need another pump on the other side to anti-sync. You probably go with 100% throttle and increase the pulse slowly until you get a nice and long wave.

I really love the action going in my tank. My fish love it, especially those tangs. They like to leverage the flow to travel across the tank. Corals look like they are in the ocean. I am sure they love and prefer the waves instead of uni-directional flow

[ToddG]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10973118#post10973118 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ipluu
Fliger,

I have 2 pumps on each side. I am on anti-sync, 75% throttle, about 5 little clicks from 0 for pulsing. If I go with the 100%, it will spill for sure.

To adjust pulsing, start at 0 and slowly increase it up. Wait for a minute or two before adjusting again. About 2 very small increments, I got high frequency waves, about 3 waves across my tank width (~~~). With 2 more increments, I got a long, single wave length (~) as you see in the video. When you are adjusting the pulse, stand on the side of the tank and look at your water level. Your tank is longer and much bigger so it will be a little different on the pulsing speed. For your tank, you need another pump on the other side to anti-sync. You probably go with 100% throttle and increase the pulse slowly until you get a nice and long wave.

I really love the action going in my tank. My fish love it, especially those tangs. They like to leverage the flow to travel across the tank. Corals look like they are in the ocean. I am sure they love and prefer the waves instead of uni-directional flow




In the video it looked like only one pump on each side. At least the left side. The right was harder to see on my monitor.


Did you add another set since the video?

[ipluu]

Did you add another set since the video?

No. I have only 2 of them, one on each side.

Just for a test, I unpluged the slave and I still get nice waves with only one pump.

[Quatro]

Are the pumps any quieter when in "wave" mode than in full blast?

[ipluu]

Are the pumps any quieter when in "wave" mode than in full blast?

The wave mode is a little bit quieter but more annoyance. I don't think I able to sleep in the same room where the tank is. It makes zZZZ zZZZ hum sound every 1/2 second which is annoyance for me. I prefer a steady hum than a on off hum like that.

[Kinetic]

That's so cool. I'm getting two Vortech's too very soon with the wireless controllers for my new System 120 as well. I was thinking of mounting them on the back of the tank, though I won't get that cool wave.

[EcoTech R&D]

Kinetic,

You can still get a wave with the VorTechs mounted on the back of the aquarium. Your pulse frequency will have to be a bit faster, but it is very doable.

[Kinetic]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10980778#post10980778 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by EcoTech R&D
Kinetic,

You can still get a wave with the VorTechs mounted on the back of the aquarium. Your pulse frequency will have to be a bit faster, but it is very doable.

wow neat, but the wave would be front to back, rather than left to right right?

[EcoTech Marine]

Kinetic-

That's right. It ends up making the aquarium water appear very "choppy" like the surface of the ocean on a windy day. Also, the wave doesn't seem to penetrate throughout the tank as well versus when the pumps are mounted centrally on the sides of the tank.

There's lots of options with these wave drivers, we all just need to experiment and report our experience.

-Tim

[JRaquatics]

Could the wave hurt the structure of the tank? Is it safer to run them from the back of the tank or from the sides? Which position would be easier on the pumps?

Sorry for all the ?

[EcoTech Marine]

Any wave can damage the structural integrity of an aquarium over time through fatigue. I am not sure which would be better or worse for the tank (front to back or side to side). Also, I don't think either position is actually harder or easier on the pumps.

-Tim

[WeMa]

really nice video, thanks for sharing, im trying to get it dialed in on my 180, i am goign to put one on each side in anti sync tonight, been trying to do 2 on one side in sync mode...

let us know how you luck goes Fliger, if you can get it on your 210, then maybe i can duplicate your settings and get mine going

[KEstep]

I posted these in the other long thread but it seems this would be the right place for the waves....


Well I played around today and I got the best wave I have ever made.. I am getting close to 2 inches from the lowest to highest point. It is with two Vortechs on anti sync mode on a 5 foot tank. If you listen you can hear the annoying ramping noise of the Vortechs going up and down. Kind of sounds like a frog on crack. Here is a few videos. Sorry the glass is a little dirty.


This is a side shot. The wave I get is biggest going from front to back of the tank and not length wise. It also shows how my corals sway.

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m258/kestep434/th_Wave003.jpg (http://s106.photobucket.com/albums/m258/kestep434/?action=view&current=Wave003.flv)


This is just what it looks like with some of the corals in the middle.

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m258/kestep434/th_Wave006.jpg (http://s106.photobucket.com/albums/m258/kestep434/?action=view&current=Wave006.flv)


Here is a frontal video mostly on the right side of the tank.

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m258/kestep434/th_Wave007.jpg (http://s106.photobucket.com/albums/m258/kestep434/?action=view&current=Wave007.flv)

[SD-Fishguy]

That wave looks nice. Can't wait for my driver-unit (first group to order) to finally show up.:(

[ipluu]

Nice. That is probably high frequency wave. It is hard to tell from your video. If you stand in front of the tank, you will see 2 or 3 shorter wave across the tank. Try to increase the pulse speed a little bit so you get a single wave lenth (~) from left to right. When you get a single big wave, the water level on the left side of your tank goes up when the right side goes down, the center of the wave will be right in the middle of the tank. Coral will wave slower which looks more natural, unless you prefer that way.

Do you also notice that the sand bed formed wave all over it and it look much cleaner and more natual? I have to move all of my frags on the eggcrate above the sand bed. I am glad that I am not the only one annoyed by the sound. I guess we just have to get used to that.

[EcoTech R&D]

ipluu

I'm glad you noticed the ridge formation in the sand. That is perhaps one of my favorite results from running a wave in the aquarium.

Justin

[KEstep]

Actually the ridge is still from last week when the vortechs were not on the new drivers and were on constant full speed. I just have not done anything to smooth it back out yet. Before that pile would get HUGE and I had a very bare spot right next to the green lobo on the bottom.

I have tried to get one single wave but I do not think I can do it with only two pumps on this tank. I could be wrong but I have tried numerous times to achieve one. If I go any higher of a frequency I lose wave action altogether. In my tank the front to back wave is what I get instead of the length of the tank.

I also do not prefer the pulse wave.. It is loud, the overflow crashes and at one point I had water go over the brace and into my t5's. I also do not like the thought of having the seams give out on the tank. When it settled in on the carpet one end is slightly off level as it is and I do not want to add to that stress already.

[ipluu]

I'm glad you noticed the ridge formation in the sand. That is perhaps one of my favorite results from running a wave in the aquarium.

EcoTech R&D,

Thank you for designing and producing such a great equipment. It raised my reef tank to another level. Everything in the tank looks so natural.

Do you think you could create a wireless USB controller in the future? It will be set as master and controller my a software installed on a laptop. We then able to control it however we want.

[Fliger]

I had a second to play today - I still only have the two on one side with the new controllers. I took the interval WAY down and am getting a little wave. I get a rocking motion but not nearly what these videos show. Interestingly - I am noticing the most motion from the side the pumps are on - and very little at the other end (tank is 64" long). I think the undertoe that these pumps create is pretty incredible. I'll move it to the other side this evening and see what I can get!

I would recommend selling a cord extender to the controller. My stand has two compartments with a divider down the middle and its a challenge to get all the controllers in "line of sight" with no wood interference.

[ipluu]

I have tried to get one single wave but I do not think I can do it with only two pumps on this tank. I could be wrong but I have tried numerous times to achieve one

I noticed that you also have wave on the side of your tank. Are you pumps right in the middle of the tank (sideway)? Try to put it in the middle and see how you like it.

I lowered the throttle down to 50% and I now have a nice, gentle wave going in my tank, about 3/4 inch single wave. Noise from pumps also sound more pleasant. I barely hear it during the day.

[Kinetic]

Once my vortechs come in, I'll do a lot of experimenting of placement and control variables. I'll post them here with videos too =) This thread rocks.

I'm first going to try placing them on the back of the tank, probably equidistant from all edges of the tank and from each other.

Some questions:

1. Which settings should I try first with them in this placement? to get a cool swaying wave both on surface and in the water?

2. Would placing them closer to the surface be better?

3. Placing them further apart?


If I don't like this I may try putting both on one side, or on opposite sides.

I won't have any rock yet, or sand, so I'll probably be able to play with positioning easier, but tuning later depending on rockwork.

[Fliger]

Kinetic - every tank is going to be different - but from what I'm seeing on the same side - you'll want them in "sync" mode and a pretty quick pulse. Since the tank is ~20 wide though, I think you'll have better luck on the sides. You might even be able to get away with them on one side, and keep the other side your other display side.

[ipluu]

1. Which settings should I try first with them in this placement? to get a cool swaying wave both on surface and in the water?
- Try pulse mode and sync mode for slave. Yes you will get wave on the surface and in the water. However, since the depth of your tank is much shorter than the width, the wave will be at high frequency and fast which makes it looks unnatural. Try put your pumps on the sides in stead and see how you like it.

2. Would placing them closer to the surface be better?
- The closer to the surface, the surface wave will be bigger and less disturbance to the sand bed. You have to play around and find the right spot for your tank where it does not disturb the sand bed too much and create a nice wave for you at the same time. Mine is 3" from the water surface.

3. Placing them further apart?
- On the sides? I personally like it better.

Have fun!

[KEstep]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10985118#post10985118 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ipluu
I noticed that you also have wave on the side of your tank. Are you pumps right in the middle of the tank (sideway)? Try to put it in the middle and see how you like it.


I have them close to the center on the sides but if I place them dead in the center they blow straight into corals and they do not like that. So they are slightly closer to the front.

[rishma]

silicone fatigue----not much data on that. I am a metals guy but I would guess that a normal aquarium would experience very little fatigue damage from these kind of waves. Though the load is cyclic, it is realatively small compared to the static load from the water height. IMO it would only be a problem in a tank that is designed with very small safety margins. I wont be worrying about it.

nice pictures. I want to hear some sound. noise is a big deal to me and your descriptions concerns me.

[SD-Fishguy]

Finally got my wireless driver, went home at lunch and hooked it up. Tough to get those plastic clips on the sides open. Just put on reef crest and went back to work.

tonight it's wave time.

[Fliger]

I was not able to get a wave with just two opposing VT's - I'll try all four when I get a chance.

[EcoTech Marine]

Fliger-

If they are opposing, make sure the slave is anti-sync'ing.

-Tim

[robster]

Here are my videos.....

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u145/rbeirne/th_101707_20161.jpg (http://s167.photobucket.com/albums/u145/rbeirne/?action=view&current=101707_20161.flv)

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u145/rbeirne/th_101707_20111.jpg (http://s167.photobucket.com/albums/u145/rbeirne/?action=view&current=101707_20111.flv)

[Quatro]

Preview of things to come...

http://s35.photobucket.com/albums/d186/hceiv/Elos%20120XL/?action=view&current=MOV06032.flv

Very loud, probably won't end up keeping these :(

[t5Nitro]

Interesting.

[EcoTech Marine]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10997051#post10997051 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Quatro
Preview of things to come...

http://s35.photobucket.com/albums/d186/hceiv/Elos%20120XL/?action=view&current=MOV06032.flv

Very loud, probably won't end up keeping these :(

Quatro-

Don't give up. You've definitely got a bad motor bearing judging from the sound. This will be replaced under warranty, just contact our service department at [email protected]

-Tim

[Quatro]

Tim,

Sent you an email. I think the pumps are running normally, but please get back to me either way.

Thanks!

[MSHUR]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10979942#post10979942 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ipluu
The wave mode is a little bit quieter but more annoyance. I don't think I able to sleep in the same room where the tank is. It makes zZZZ zZZZ hum sound every 1/2 second which is annoyance for me. I prefer a steady hum than a on off hum like that.

I am getting the same sound and i have to agree very annoyance
I use to have tunze VB and i dont recall the same sound..it leas not that loud.
Is the anyway to reduce this sound?


m

[EcoTech Marine]

Mike-

Please contact [email protected] Dave should be able to help you determine the cause of the noise.

-Tim

[robster]

I thought the on/off winding sound of the pumps while in pulse mode was normal? Is this not the case?

[EcoTech Marine]

It should be pretty easy to determine what's normal and what's not. The motor is now changing speeds, so the noise caused by the ramping up and down of the motor is normal. If it sounds like a high pitched grinding or rattling, that's not normal.

-Tim

[Quatro]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10998290#post10998290 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by EcoTech Marine
Quatro-

Don't give up. You've definitely got a bad motor bearing judging from the sound. This will be replaced under warranty, just contact our service department at [email protected]

-Tim

I am overly sensitive to noise. My guess is that if you have a noisy aquarium anyways, this will not be as noticable. My aquarium is not much louder than a refrigerator, so the VT motors reving up and down is very noticable to me in my living room. FYI...

[HBtank]

Got my drivers today.

Took me 15 minutes to get a wave going. Pretty darn easy..

I will probably run in reef crast mode, but we will see :)

[Kinetic]

Can I get that same wave if I run both vortechs on one side of the tank in sync mode? Reason is one of the sides of my Elos 120 is in a high foot traffic zone, so I'd rather not have it mounted there.

[EcoTech R&D]

Kinetic; depending on the length of the tank, it can be a little easier using anti-sync, but having two on one side will still generate a wave.