Opinions please

[NONNA58]

I really need to make up my mind by this weekend on the lighting for my new tank. The dimensions are 72x24x30 and of course the canopy is 17" tall. I will not have a deep sand bed. I will not have MH. I will only have softies with a few hard corals. No sps. I would like some sps but not if I have to have MH.

I got alot of opinions at the club meeting on Saturday so I would like to ask if ya'll if you would just give me help here so I can decide. I currently run 440 VHO on my 75g and have been very happy but have been considering T5's. The new tanks is 225g acrylic.

So what does everybody think?
Sue

[CMcNeil]

why are you so against the halides if i may ask?

[mozdaman]

Ditto on Checkinhawk.

I had PC's and went to Halides and VHO Actinic. I run the VHO actinics most of the day and off when my 12,000 halides are on. The halides are only on for about 4 Hrs right now. The rest of the time is actinics. Heat is an issue. If you have a chiller then no brainer. I can make the halides last a long time with the photoperiod that I am running them at. Bottom line Halides are, in my opinion the way to get the light that the corals need. At that point you can sneak a couple of sps in. I have mostly softies with a couple of anenomies....everything is doing much better with the new lighting.

Good luck

[NONNA58]

Heat is an issue. I did get a chiller with the tank but I also am afraid of what my electric bill will jump up to. I am spending more money on water, ect. I am trying to be conservative so my husband does not get angry about the power bill and the extra cost of water but at the same time still be happy about the lighting I choose.

[CMcNeil]

sue my tank has a total of 970w(750w of halides) and with just two 4" fans in the hood and one 10" fan over the sump my tank stays at 77.5 degrees all day.the aquacontroller is controlling the fans and works great for it.

[NONNA58]

Okay Chris, then what would you suggest for my tank?

[Ah64av8tor]

Sue,

My tank has a total of 1380w (500w of halides) I have a dart and a T4 which easily adds two degrees to the temp, I have three 4" fans in the hood, two over the prop tank and one 10" fan over the sump. My Aquacontroller is controlling the fans and is set to turn on the fans at 79.8 the tank stays between 79 and 82 degrees all day.

Im not saying that you need MH but IMHO you should not worry about the heat so much and go with the lighting you are going to like the best. Besides how much time are you going to be looking at the tank compared to the power bill.

[CMcNeil]

i say you get 3x250w and 2x72" vhos but thats me.really you could probably do 3x175w instead.

[Ah64av8tor]

Sue,

So the tank dimensions are 72x24x30, how many braces are there over the tank?

I would lean towards the Mh with a depth of 30 inches I'm not sure that you will get that much penetration with T5s.

[NONNA58]

one brace

[NONNA58]

John thought the same thing. Might be too deep. Well than what about vho?

[CMcNeil]

if you have one brace id say 2x400w and some vho actinics.the vhos dont need to penetrate like the main lighting they are just supplimental.

[NONNA58]

That is basically what the tank came with. Three 400w mh and 4 vho.

[BlueCoast]

I have T5 on a 40 breeder. It's 36" wide by 18" deep, I currently have 216 watts, might go to 6X54. As mentioned much deeper and I've read T5's just cannot penetrate like MH. As far as heat, proper venting is everything. My brother had a PC light that was keeping his tank at 84, with some better cooling it stays steady at 80 now with 2 fans mostly venting heat out of the hood not blowing across surface.
If you have the MH / VHO combo already, I would use it for sure, the 2x400 for that midday peak sounds good but I is no expirt :)

[mflamb]

If you are going to do mainly softies with some LPS and maybe SPS, I would use two 250 watt MH with 10K to 14K bulbs and two 72", 165 watt VHO actinic. The SPS would have to be strategically placed, under a MH reflector and middle/up in the tank.

[BillyFSU]

I have SPS (green monti cap) growing very well 20" deep in my tank under T5's (2bulbs+1actinic) and my lights are pretty high off my water. Also have some zoo's that hitchhiked in and are in a pretty shady spot at the bottom of the tank and are growing (albeit slowly).

I'd say if you're doing softies go T5s. I love them. I use a regular ballast with the SLR reflectors that John sells and I haven't changed the bulbs in over 18 months.

[zukihara]

I will chime in here just for kicks :)

A 30" deep tank gives so many options when using 400w mh. You can really get the benefit of all that depth and never wonder if you have enough lighting for whatever coral strikes your fancy.

You can always experiment with shorter photoperiods and such to find a way to limit the electricity costs as much as possible.

Especially with the canopy 17" tall my vote (for what it's worth, having a 110 30" tall) is use the 400 watters and get beauty out of every inch of depth that you have. It's getting cooler and you can disguise slightly higher bills for quite some time!!

[jsl6v8]

I would use MH lighting but if you are absolutely against them I would do VHO, I run VHO on my 120 softie tank and I get really good growth out of it. And everyone is mentioning their tank temp but you got to keep in mind the temp you keep your house at has a heck of a lot to do with the temp your tank will rise too. For instance I keep my house at 80 in the day, no matter how many fans I pop on my tank with lights on will not drop below 80. So really if you keep your house in the 75 and below range I think you would be fine keeping metal halides on it without the use of a chiller.

[mattliu]

two 72" actinics to keep your pop on. then T5 to bring out any color you desire for the rest. the animals you described don't need anything more.

[NONNA58]

zukihara-
Remeasured the canopy, not that it will make much difference, but where the tanks sits on it measures 13-14 inches. I really appreciate your input, as I do everybody else too.
Explain to me the big difference I will have using the 400 as compared to the 250 MH.
Sue

[CMcNeil]

depth penitration is the benefit of going with 400s over the 250s

[Saliki]

Stick with the 400w MH - Use 2 and be happy =]

[ChinaKat67]

I have a 210g - 72x24x29 which has been up and running for 3+ years now. I also have a tall canopy - approximately 15". Despite all that depth, I decided to go with 6-72"VHOs. I have mostly softies, LPS and anemones and the growth rate is phenomenal. I have even grown a monti cap under these lighting conditions and had to get rid of it because it out grew its spot in the tank. For what you are doing, VHO is fine. FYI...You can only run 2-72" bulbs with one IceCap ballast. I am one of the few that really likes VHO bulbs - they are safe and should be changed out yearly unlike T5s and MH. I'm not knocking T5s or MH - they are incredible lighting sorces and each has their assets, I'm just saying that I've had great success with my T12s! Good luck!

[mflamb]

There is such a thing as too much light for softies.

[WarDaddy]

on my 24" deep tanks I have 175 watt MH, all my sofites and LPS are very happy. I have chalices growing real good right near the sand. Zoos at all levels, and some Montipora Caps in the upper 1/3 are doing great.

[mflamb]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10991708#post10991708 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by WarDaddy
on my 24" deep tanks I have 175 watt MH, all my sofites and LPS are very happy. I have chalices growing real good right near the sand. Zoos at all levels, and some Montipora Caps in the upper 1/3 are doing great.
That's why I'm convinced that your stuff will do great with 250s and vhos in your new setup.

[ReefArtist]

Yep, with softies you don't need the 400w. If anything the 250w would give you everything because you're not into heavy SPS. some of my softies aren't happy under 250s so adding a 400w will limit your areas for the softies. As for temp - all the people that post the temps of their tanks do not post the temps of their house. My tank is always about 3 to 4 degrees above my house temp - house is set to 78 my tank in my living room with two T5 and a 250MH is 81 - 82 at the peak of summer during the day. That said my tank at the back of my house that is under only VHOs - temp runs 82 and has been 84. That room doesn't cool as easily and is on the South side of my house. A lot is dependant on what you want to keep, the temp in your house (If you are not using a chiller) and how much money you are willing to spend on electric. T5's don't come in 6' so you would have to stagger them either with 5' or (2) three footers. VHO's come in 6' bulbs - so the cost is less in the long run. I keep softies and SPS's but my tank is only 25" - I'm going with 3 - 250MH and three rows of 6' VHOs bulbs. Everything for the most part is very happy - I get a few that get a little fussy with to much but it's easy to lower them or put them in a little shaded area.

[CMcNeil]

house is 78 degrees,tank runs 77.5 all day

[poknsnok]

thats a great temp... you running any fans??

[CMcNeil]

two 4" fans in the hood blowing onto the water surface and one 10" fan over the sump,all fans are thermostaticly controlled by the AC Jr.

[ReefArtist]

My point exactly - every one is going to have a different temp problem. Fans help and I have 4 of them - my temp still stays high. In my living room I don't want to listen to a bunch of fans running to keep the tank at a decent temp. The point is - why have more light then what is needed for the corals you like to keep. Keeping softies under 400w to me and this is JMO is a waste and will only cause problem in the long run. I really thought about going with 2-250's and 1-400 but I like my softies to much and after talking to people in the lighting forum decided - why? Now with a 30' tall tank, Sue you could get away with it more than I could, but for me I would for the most part only keep SPS's or very high light LPS under that area of the tank. Also - going only VHOs/T5's I don't think your softies would be happy in a 30" tank - JMO.

[NONNA58]

Carol, both you and Mike make good arguments on the difference between the 400mh and the 250mh. I am afraid that the t5 will not make me happy in the long run for some reason. Almost everybody that has them love them but they are in shallower tanks. That is why I was leaning towards vho's. So, right now I am thinking about doing 2 mh like Mike mentioned, on either side of the brace and 2 72" actinics. The only problem is that I have to buy 2 new icecap ballasts since I have 3 400MH ballasts now which I can't seem to get rid of to help offset the cost. I guess I will have to suck it up and spend the money. I really want the lighting to not only look great but also help with growth and colors of the corals.

[ReefArtist]

Sue, I think you will be much happier also and yes it does hurt when you have to puchase everything. The MH that you were selling are - 220v is that correct? If so, as you are aware that is most likely the reason. But you have new tank and you want to start off on a good foot and lighting with MH will make everything come alive - it did mine. Good luck with the setup I think you will be very happy.

[triggerfish1976]

I agree with 250 watt recs. Some of the new square and round reflectors are increasing the efficiency of the light making them more efficient as long as you can fit them in your canopy. You could do 2-3 250 watt DE fixtures and supplement them with either VHO's or T-5's. There are some really cool T-5 bulbs hitting the market that are really starting to give VHO actinic bulbs a run for their money when it comes to color supplementation.

[ReefArtist]

Yeah it only makes sense with what Sue likes to keep and with the 250's it puts her in the SPS lighting league (Med lighting requirements). The T5's are starting to come closer but - as far as I know they still don't come in anything longer then 5'. Where you can just use 5 footers on a six foot tank and it is only 6 inches on either side - besides who runs their rock/corals all the way to the sides? Mmmmm - darn it Trigger now you have me changing - AGAIN!!!!!

[triggerfish1976]

Sorry Carol. Lighting is one of the more frustrating aspects of tank setup because there are just to many options.

[musicawal]

Sue, just throwin in my 2 cents as there are already a number of great ideas thrown out and I am by no means any kind of expert. I just setup my new 20h and I picked up one of the 175w Iwasaki 15k bulbs and it's friggin fantastic. The colors a nice crisp whiteish/blue and it's super bright here's some stats from Sanjay's lighting page http://www.reeflightinginfo.arvixe.com/tabular-lamp-data.php?Watts=175&LampManuf=Iwasaki&Lamptype=Single+Ended&LampName=128&LampNameText=Iwasaki+175W+15000K+SE+1&BallastName=33&BallastNameText=ARO+175W+Electronic&Shielded=Select+Shielded&Submit=Search. It uses less electricity than a 250w yet still competes for par and heat would probably be negligible I'm not really sure. Like I said just my 2 cents, good luck with your decision. It's nice to see you getting underway with this build, and I still hope the tanks looking as sharp as last time I saw it.
Andrew

[NONNA58]

Andrew,
Thanks for giving me your "two cents". That is why I started this thread. Without your help I would not have even bought the tank so my husband and I thank you. I can't tell you how we were impressed with you and all that you have done in your life and going to do in the future.
Now I really am unsure about lighting since you dropped the hint on Iwasaki. I have heard a little about them but not much. If anybody besides Andrew has experience with Iwasaki please post.
Andrew, thanks again and you will be among the first to see pictures of the new setup.
Sue

[Ah64av8tor]

Sue,

The Iwasaki 250 watt 6500K was the standard ( yes thats old school) fantastic growth but too yellow for most these days. There is talk that they are coming out with a new 250 watt bulb like the 175 that is getting all of the attention.

[mflamb]

Sue,
Everyone "our" age that has been in reefing a little while has used a Iwasaki 6500K. It was the original and worked great. Take a good look at the the 15K bulb compared to other 10K to 14K bulbs and make sure the blue/white balance is ok with you. The bulb has great specs, but it is just a little to blue for me. It will definitely make the coral colors look great.

[musicawal]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11012760#post11012760 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mflamb
Sue,
Everyone "our" age that has been in reefing a little while has used a Iwasaki 6500K. It was the original and worked great. Take a good look at the the 15K bulb compared to other 10K to 14K bulbs and make sure the blue/white balance is ok with you. The bulb has great specs, but it is just a little to blue for me. It will definitely make the coral colors look great.
Mflamb I'm not sure what your experience is with these bulbs. But from what I've seen with mine it's not very blue at all. I'm going from a 150w 14k phoenix and it's nowhere near as blue as the phoenix. Like I stated before from what I can see it's a nice crisp white with just a hint of blue. Until my eyes adjust to these new bulbs I'm still missing the fluorescence of the phoenix 14k. Just wanted to clarify about my felings on the color. Sue thanks, and I can't wait to see the pics!

[mflamb]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11014831#post11014831 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by musicawal
Mflamb I'm not sure what your experience is with these bulbs. But from what I've seen with mine it's not very blue at all. I'm going from a 150w 14k phoenix and it's nowhere near as blue as the phoenix. Like I stated before from what I can see it's a nice crisp white with just a hint of blue. Until my eyes adjust to these new bulbs I'm still missing the fluorescence of the phoenix 14k. Just wanted to clarify about my felings on the color. Sue thanks, and I can't wait to see the pics!
I've only seen one tank with the bulbs. I think the bulbs have great specs, just a little blue for me. I have aquaconnect 14K, and they are a little too blue for me also. I just want Sue to compare before she buys.

[NONNA58]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11000472#post11000472 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ReefArtist
Yeah it only makes sense with what Sue likes to keep and with the 250's it puts her in the SPS lighting league (Med lighting requirements). The T5's are starting to come closer but - as far as I know they still don't come in anything longer then 5'. Where you can just use 5 footers on a six foot tank and it is only 6 inches on either side - besides who runs their rock/corals all the way to the sides? Mmmmm - darn it Trigger now you have me changing - AGAIN!!!!!
There is no problem using the 5' t5 since I was going to stagger them anyway. I probably have more of a choice with bulbs with t5 than with vho's. Remembering that Greg has went through some many different bulbs and lighting options scares me a little. I would love view how a tank(my size) would look with t5 and mh. I think the closest I have come to seeing that would be at John's store. I don't know how I am going to view Iwasaki bulbs though. Other than Andrew I do not kow who has them and Andrew's tank is quite a bit smaller than mine. I am leaning towards getting 2 250 MH though. My next question would be the life expectancy and price of these bulbs. I am used to changing my bulbs every 10-12 months. My 4' vho's run me $25 a bulb. That is about $100 a year. I want to get the best for my money but not pay a fortune doing it. I heard what the acquaconnect cost! Wow. :eek1:

[ReefArtist]

Yes - with lighting it's trial and error - everyone is different, some like it blue, some don't etc, etc, etc. The main part of your lighting will be the MH - Andrew's tank doesn't come close to the depth you are dealing with and because of that your requirements are much different. As for the different color of bulbs it is just a matter of taste and what you see with your eyes. The 14K's are more on the blue side and I don't think I'd like my tank looking blue, but at the same time, I might try one to see if I would like it at some time or mix them. You know - use someone's old 14K and just throw it on - no money lost. Yeah - aquaconnects is the thing now and if they lasted 5 years I might consider them - NOT! This is the fun part and yes it does cost but - you can always sell them like Greg is doing :D.

[boydx6]

So, right now I am thinking about doing 2 mh like Mike mentioned, on either side of the brace and 2 72" actinics. The only problem is that I have to buy 2 new icecap ballasts since I have 3 400MH ballasts now which I can't seem to get rid of to help offset the cost.

Sue, if you ar going with 2 72" actinics, you only need 1 IceCap ballast. The 660 will run 16 ft of bulb and I think the 440 will run 12 ft.

[ReefArtist]

Stephen,
I think sue has a 660 and 2 - 400 MH ballast that are 220V. Going with the 250MH she'll need two new MH ballast and yes the 660 will work great for the VHO/T5.

I'm going through the same thing - mixing and matching for all the tanks - but it's all fun. I just had my 660 blow (on my 75 now) and it's only a year old. The best thing about the IceCap Ballast is the three year warrantee - John was nice enough to give me a loaner while mine gets repaired - that was very nice! Sue, that is something else to keep in mine - don't try to save and down grade your ballast. IMO - IceCap is the best and in the above the warrantee really is coming in handy.

[NONNA58]

Carol,
Yea, That is what I am thinking also about the icecap ballast. I am not really familiar with any other ballast out there. I'm really green when it comes to lighting ( among other things) but I have had very good luck with my one icecap 660 that is currently running 4 48" vho's for over 4 years. I have talked to Dave in the service department at icecap and he's seems very helpful. I really need to make up my mind soon as I need to get the electrician out here and he wants to know how much current, watts, ect, between my lighting and pumps ect I will be using.