View Full Version : Bubble Master 160 vs Bubble King Mini 160
Reeferhead
10/19/2007, 09:34 AM
They're fairly similar except for the price, which would you go with?
A few of the basics:
ATI Bubble Master 160
$460
7"x8"x20"
Air: 800 lph
Water: 1200 lph
21 watts
Bubble King Mini 160
$850
7"x7"x21.75"
Air: 600 lph
Water: 1000 lph
18 watts
GSMguy
10/19/2007, 09:41 AM
Bubble king mini, the bubble plate is better designed and even though they are similar height the mini has a better reaction chamber Also the ATI are built Flimsy compared to the BK that is built like a tank.
then again you would expect all that for the price difference.
Nick
Reeferhead
10/19/2007, 09:48 AM
By "better reaction chamber" do you mean specifically the bubble plate? or something else in the design that makes it better?
GSMguy
10/19/2007, 10:12 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11006555#post11006555 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Reeferhead
By "better reaction chamber" do you mean specifically the bubble plate? or something else in the design that makes it better?
the bubble king plate is lower and much wider that is a big part of it because it reduces turbulence exponentially better but it is more than that
the ati bubbleplate has a plastic tube above it that essentially shoots 1200lph straight up the skimmer resulting in lesss dwell time and more turbulence. its like a cannon but too much turbulence IMO
They will both skim. it just comes down to the most efficent design in terms of use of space and turbulence reduction.
agian the Bubble king you can take every peice apart and it is built like a tank. I picked them both up and looked at them next to each-other and the BK seemed thicker and much heavier
Reeferhead
10/19/2007, 10:28 AM
Thanks for the info, I wonder why ATI didn't incorperate a bubble plate into their design? Are there patent issues? Everything else in design seems the same.
GSMguy
10/19/2007, 10:33 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11006826#post11006826 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Reeferhead
Thanks for the info, I wonder why ATI didn't incorperate a bubble plate into their design? Are there patent issues? Everything else in design seems the same.
they have a Bubble plate but not all Bubble plates are created equal....
As for Patents Klaus doesnt seem to be worried about people copying his invention, he knows that customers know where bubble plates came from. Its almost promoting his design by imitation. Klaus seems genuinly interested in pushing the limits of skimmer design and advancing the industry.
Reeferhead
10/19/2007, 10:53 AM
The Bubble Master 200 has a bubble plate but I don't see one on the 160
https://diyreef.authsecure.com/shop/images/bubble_160lg.jpg
I bet it could be modded fairly easily, although you shouldn't have to mod a $460 skimmer
GSMguy
10/19/2007, 10:58 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11006988#post11006988 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Reeferhead
The Bubble Master 200 has a bubble plate but I don't see one on the 160
https://diyreef.authsecure.com/shop/images/bubble_160lg.jpg
I bet it could be modded fairly easily, although you shouldn't have to mod a $460 skimmer
you see in the picture the inner tube inside the reaction chamber? the top of it is so close to the Neck that it just doesnt react as long and there is more turbulence
the small ATI skimmer is prettty different from the others and i think its the newest design, might be they were getting bettter results without the Bubble plate for some reason.
Reeferhead
10/19/2007, 11:08 AM
I get what you saying, it makes sense. I think maybe they were trying to do a better job of reduce escaping microbubbles by using the inner tube.
Reeferhead
10/19/2007, 11:18 AM
Oh, I probably should have mentioned earlier, I already ordered the Bubble Master. The Bubble King is way out of my price range. Actually, the Bubble Master is out of my price range too, so don't tell the wife how much it costs ;)
I'll have it on Monday and post some pics of it in action. This thread has peaked my interest enough to concider modding it. However, my current skimmer is a complete DIY and I've never been happy with the results so I'll probably leave the BM the way it is.
GSMguy
10/19/2007, 11:32 AM
i think the Bubble master will work just fine and at that price the choice would be easy id probably go with the ATI
and if i had the money for the Bubble king id get an ATB nano cone.
Reeferhead
10/19/2007, 11:56 AM
Yeah, the ATB cones are Bad @$$ but wouldn't work with my footprint restraints
kysard1
10/19/2007, 04:10 PM
The BM160 out puts underwater, no opportunity to plumb to a filter sock to catch bubbles.
mr. pluto
10/19/2007, 04:25 PM
the return bubble issue does not seem to be a problem w/
the bm. lets put it this way, what can you do with the extra $400.00 you did not spend. Is the BK worth $400.00 more
than the BM. wishing is one thing pulling the trigger is another :)
GSMguy
10/19/2007, 04:25 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11009192#post11009192 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kysard1
The BM160 out puts underwater, no opportunity to plumb to a filter sock to catch bubbles.
i would guess thats what a well designed sump baffle system would take care of.
Creetin
10/19/2007, 05:27 PM
I have not seen any bubble problems with ATI's. None escape my 250.
The bubble plate debate. LOL Thats all speculation i have seen no hard proof of anything.
LOL i bet those BK votes came from people that dont own one.
Congrats on the pickup, Lots of happy people with them despite the poor design. :P Just kiddin.
sjm817
10/19/2007, 05:37 PM
My BM250 works very well. No exp with the BM160. My 250 has the adjustable T output with the wingnut. I dont like the new underwater output design. I like to be able to direct the output and keep it at the surface.
Creetin
10/19/2007, 05:39 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11006706#post11006706 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by GSMguy
the bubble king plate is lower and much wider that is a big part of it because it reduces turbulence exponentially better but it is more than that
the ati bubbleplate has a plastic tube above it that essentially shoots 1200lph straight up the skimmer resulting in lesss dwell time and more turbulence. its like a cannon but too much turbulence IMO
They will both skim. it just comes down to the most efficent design in terms of use of space and turbulence reduction.
agian the Bubble king you can take every peice apart and it is built like a tank. I picked them both up and looked at them next to each-other and the BK seemed thicker and much heavier
So this skimmer must be a bad one too?
I really like this new BK and plan on getting one when avail.
I think its a good thing by having that tube there, It's there so water can leave without bubbles, and What I THINK would get better contact time out of each and every bubble.
Think of it as a well designed bubble trap.
I own a ATI and i do not think it lowers performance one bit.
This is as drastic as i think of a cone i will go with.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v660/royal-exclusiv/SM1.jpg
Creetin
10/19/2007, 05:47 PM
Last one i forgot to mention that GSMguy is correct about the bigger bubble plate, I would like to see ati do something more the likes of the bk there, But The ATI's work.
Reeferhead
11/07/2007, 03:52 PM
Well my Bubble Mater 160 has been running for a couple weeks now and I must say I'm very impressed. I'm terrible at taking pictures but I don't even have it dialed in yet and I've been very happy with its performance.
GSMguy
11/07/2007, 04:02 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11009735#post11009735 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Creetin
Last one i forgot to mention that GSMguy is correct about the bigger bubble plate, I would like to see ati do something more the likes of the bk there, But The ATI's work.
yes the ati works.... just the small bubbleplates dont work as well..
the 160 has no bubble plate i wonder why, didnt the old ati bm 150 have a bubble plate?.
the size of bubble plate does seem to matter, the bubble plate on the new BK cone is huge, like the surface area of 4 ati bm250.
Creetin you should have pointed out how i thought there was a bubble plate in a skimmer that has no bubbleplate therefore making my post total garbage, i apologize.:lol: :lol:
sjm817
11/07/2007, 04:40 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11009680#post11009680 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Creetin
So this skimmer must be a bad one too?
I really like this new BK and plan on getting one when avail.
I think its a good thing by having that tube there, It's there so water can leave without bubbles, and What I THINK would get better contact time out of each and every bubble.
Think of it as a well designed bubble trap.
I own a ATI and i do not think it lowers performance one bit.
This is as drastic as i think of a cone i will go with.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v660/royal-exclusiv/SM1.jpg
I like the look of that BK too. I'm curious how it would stack up against the BM250.
hahnmeister
11/07/2007, 04:55 PM
I think the Supermarines will shred. The cone shape keeps the bubble density in the top very tight and uniform. The wide bubble plate provides excellent turbulence reduction (even with the cone, but as it turns out, this restriction doesnt act so much as a nozzle as you might expect). The greatest height from the plate to the top with the new design... and this design allows for much higher air flow rates/density than others... I can see that. Beyond making a taller version of it (which comes with its own advantages and drawbacks), I think this will be the skimmer design to beat. This is the one I would put up against the larger ATB cones, FWIW.
CruzinKim
11/07/2007, 05:34 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11007137#post11007137 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Reeferhead
This thread has peaked my interest enough to concider modding it. However, my current skimmer is a complete DIY and I've never been happy with the results so I'll probably leave the BM the way it is. No, don't need to mod it. My BM160 works perfectly out of the box. The only adjustment that would make the BM160 even foam better is put a small piece of RO/DI tubing into the end of the air hose to restrict the air a little bit. Your foaming will get finer and the foamhead thicker. Otherwise, it doesn't need a bubble plate.
Reef Sponger
11/09/2007, 10:09 AM
I would have thought mini-BK would out vote BM 2 to 1, but it's a surprise to see a 50%-50% split. I almost picked up the mini-BK160, but the release took so long that I picked up the BM160. I have no disappointment with the performance of the BM160, just that it's built so flimsy compared to all the ERs and H&S I've owned.
Ginzo
11/09/2007, 10:46 AM
I have a BK Mini 160..and I love the quality of it. Well worth the extra money. I have also seen and tried the BM 160..and I find it's construction quality under par. It's like comparing a BMW against a Hyundai.
hahnmeister
11/09/2007, 10:59 AM
I didnt know until yesterday, but Im going to toss the ATB 'nano' into this ring as well. It uses a heavily modified version of the eheim 1250 to get around 660lph of air on the Dwyer! That puts it into pretty much the same class/category/size as the BK 160. I have no doubt it will perform just as well, if not better than the BK or BM 160's because of its longer distance between the plate and top...
Now I can see why its $800... its 90% the skimmer that the Small is...
http://www.atbskimmers.com/product.php?id=55
GSMguy
11/09/2007, 11:00 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11148605#post11148605 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Ginzo
I have a BK Mini 160..and I love the quality of it. Well worth the extra money. I have also seen and tried the BM 160..and I find it's construction quality under par. It's like comparing a BMW against a Hyundai.
Like a rolex vs a timex i completely agree, performance aside the BK is built much much better.
albfelix
12/13/2007, 01:43 PM
I own a BK Mini 200 and voted for BK
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11009600#post11009600 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Creetin
I have not seen any bubble problems with ATI's. None escape my 250.
The bubble plate debate. LOL Thats all speculation i have seen no hard proof of anything.
LOL i bet those BK votes came from people that dont own one.
Congrats on the pickup, Lots of happy people with them despite the poor design. :P Just kiddin.
albfelix
12/13/2007, 01:44 PM
lol, maybe a daewoo
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11148605#post11148605 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Ginzo
I have a BK Mini 160..and I love the quality of it. Well worth the extra money. I have also seen and tried the BM 160..and I find it's construction quality under par. It's like comparing a BMW against a Hyundai.
King-Kong
12/13/2007, 02:51 PM
You guys can spend $400 on thicker acrylic?... that stuff is appearantly more valuable than gold!
I am just so tired of seeing that attribute being one of the primary complaints against a skimmer they dont even tend to own..
Ok.. my ATI BM250 cant deflect a .22 round put into it's side... how about this; how well does it do with my overflow's water hitting it and me removing the cup every few days?
Let's talk deficiancies in overall design, pumps, air/water input, mixing reactions, etc., but seriously, let's get over these other useless attributes when we're comparing one object that costs 2x as much.
If the BK was $50 more, then it's fair game, k?
albfelix
12/13/2007, 03:00 PM
yeah but we are not just talking about how well the skimmer is build. Matter a fact a BK mini costs 1129 and a Red Dragon replacement pump costs around 700+
Red Dragon pumps are way more reliable then the ones they put on those BM, period, end of story. Well time will tell how those BK replicas will last. It's like buying a brand new car. You buy a brand new hyndai and a brand new porsche and they both run very nice. Hyndai will take you longer to reach 100 mph then porsche but it will reach.... And yes hyndai's are well know for copying desings of other cars. Some of them look like jaguars, some like mercedeses, etc etc...
King-Kong
12/13/2007, 04:00 PM
...and status in society and perceived level of wealth have NOTHING to do with a porsche costing what it does; a porsche ONLY costs that much because it performs SO MUCH BETTER than a hyundai.
my eyes cant possibly roll back any further.
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