Help, going crazy with zoo problem

[mnestroy]

I have been struggling to keep new zoos healthy for over a year and I've read every article and can't pinpoint the issue.

I have a some zoos in my tank which are very healthy and spreading like crazy the below pic is the one that is spreading super fast.. I also have several button zoos.

The Problem: I buy zoos that are very healthy at stores or in fellow members tanks and when they come to my tank they open for a few days and then and remain closed, and after 2-3months they disappear from the rock.

Tank Info: 40 Breeder 150w 14k Phoenix 2-96PC Actinics, 1 6025 nanostreem & 1 6045 nanostreem. Mostly all Softies, Xenia grow like weeds, constantly giving them away. Huge LTA, Torch coral, mushrooms, etc

Bottom Line everything in my tank is doing awesome except zoos... which is driving me crazy.

I've done all the stuff I can think of, PH, Cal, Alk, Nitrates all in check. I've replaced all bulbs, Added grounded probe, given them lug. dips etc, Keep ORP around 300

Questions:
1. I leave my lights on from 10am - 10pm is this to long/short?
2. I have all these tiny tiny tiny snails that come out at night, I have never seen them on my zoos, they do not look like sundials to me but its very hard to tell since they are about the size of a grain of sand.
3. I don't think I have zoo pox, cause I have 3 healthy colonies of zoos (unless the zoos I have are not technically zoos and may not be effected by same issues?), If zoo pox wouldn't a new colony of zoos take a while to be effected?

Please throw out any suggestions, having healthy LTA, Xenia and other corals but not being able to keep zoos is driving me crazy.


Below is one pic i found of one of my zoos that are doing extremely well.
http://www.4coral.com/images/Inverts/Zoanthids/Polyps%20Yellow%2009.16.04.jpg

[killingseed]

like to say, well those yellow zoa's are weeds, very hardy! could be many things causing you zoa's to be unhappy. do you have any crabs or any other unwanted critters? or maybe a fish that will might be doing it like a clown goby. do you have any pictures of the ones doing badly? that would be very helpful.

[killingseed]

sorry double post. stupid mouse ,hehehe

[Lytehouse]

It would be helpful for you to show pics and to give detailed description of the tank and your acclimation process. What are your actual tank paramaters?

How do you acclimate?

Where do you place them in the tank in the beginning?

I know it's a lot, but as you said, you've read a lot and still are mystified. The more facts, the more likely someone will see something that makes sense to them when they read your thread.

Best of luck........

[mnestroy]

Far as fish, I have seen my blue tang pick at the rock when it was first put in the tank, but a day later never came back.

Far as introducing them, I empty the bag into a bowl and use airline and drip water for 2hrs. On my latest batch I did a loug dip also.

Below are some photos i just snapped they came out horrible..

Healthy Zoos (or are the not zoos?)
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k290/mnestroy/TankOct010.jpg

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k290/mnestroy/TankOct002.jpg

Bad Zoos after 3 weeks old, rock was super nice in store.
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k290/mnestroy/TankOct003.jpg

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k290/mnestroy/TankOct013.jpg

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k290/mnestroy/TankOct016.jpg

Whole Tank Shot, bad pic lights where out just used flash.
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k290/mnestroy/TankOct004.jpg

[650-IS350]

Some blue tangs were known to eat ZOOs, please search RC here for those threads.

Are those the good or bad asternia starfishes ???
http://www.zoaid.com/index.php?module=Gallery2&g2_itemId=1426


Whats your pH, Alk, mag.. etc....

do you start them all the way in the bottom then gradually move them up in time ( to prevent light shock )

[Lytehouse]

I was just thinking about lighting when you posted. Lot of light for a pretty shallow tank. You'd have to really start them on the sand bed, and for some even shaded under cliffs until they acclimate to the light.

Second the question of paramaters........

[mnestroy]

How do u tell if they are bad asternia?? I suppose I can start taking them out... but once again why would only some of my zoos be unhealthy and not all?

Also I have these tiny tiny snails all over the tank, are those bad?? I sure hope not cause theres prob 500+ that come out when its dark.

So you think 150w plus 2 96w Actincs is a lot of light for a 40breeder? it is pretty shallow. Should I reduce my light cycle?

[Lytehouse]

There are so many different morphs and some are very hardy and some very fragile. Next colony you bring in start them out in sand bed and with some protection, like partially under a ledge. Face to polyps toward the fron of the tank instead of standing up toward the light. See if you have any better luck.

As far as the asternia, I believe he was providing a link to the bad ones on zoid. For snails, or whatever they are, we'd need a pic.

Good luck

[mnestroy]

Hmm maybe I should just start yanking the Asternia out as I see them... the picture on zooid didnt help.

What do u think about my light cycle, 10am -10pm Actincs, 12-9 Halides should I reduce halides or both?

[650-IS350]

I run my T5's 8 Bulbs from 4-10 attinics, 5-9 daylights and others

[fl_izzy]

i think your actinics are fine but overkill on the halides. think about it it is way too much light. i would try 10 to 11 hours actinics and dead smack in the middle of your time maybe 4 to 5 hours halides. also and this one is from experience, you seem to have a lot of water movement at the bottom and they dont like that. the way your sand is and the other softies tells me that you have jets hitting too low. just my 2 cents

[audio101]

A lot of the corals in your tank looks kind of retracted and not very healthy. Something must me wrong with your water or lighting?

[mnestroy]

The photos where taken 30minutes after the lights went off, i put actincs back on for photos..

I yanked out 15 star fish yesterday... I've read a few articles saying they can be bad, so I figured i'd start with them.

I also changed my timer on my halides.

I will keep everyone posted.

[ficklefins]

Question:
When the polyps open do they look like they are missing their skirt? Can you list all the fish you have in your system? I do not believe this is an issue with any of your fish attacking your zoas.

[Timanator]

How long have you had the anenome, do you have any other large softies that might be stinging the rest of the tank?

[Toddrtrex]

I don't think it is from too much light. I have plenty of zoas within 10" of my 250 Phoenix.

Would be really nice to have numbers for your water.

And the yellow polyps doing well doesn't mean a whole lot, sorry. Those things are next to impossible to kill, IMO.

[mnestroy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11064238#post11064238 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Timanator
How long have you had the anenome, do you have any other large softies that might be stinging the rest of the tank?

The LTA i've had for about a yr.

When u say stinging do you mean touching them? The LTA is way on opposite side of tank, can I have toxicity in water?

Will more carbon help?

[Timanator]

The toxins released by the Xenia and Anenome might be bothering the Zoas. How often and how much do you change your water?

[ficklefins]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11053980#post11053980 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ficklefins
Question:
When the polyps open do they look like they are missing their skirt? Can you list all the fish you have in your system? I do not believe this is an issue with any of your fish attacking your zoas.

bump, I hope you can answer these questions.

[mnestroy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11070527#post11070527 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ficklefins
bump, I hope you can answer these questions.

Sorry, the ones that open look very healthy, the ones that are not opening look like they are melted.. not sure what u mean by the skirt.

Far as fish go.

2 Perc Clowns that never leave the LTA
2 Green Cromis
1 Small Blue Tang (might be a suspect)
1 Small Powder Tang

[mnestroy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11068714#post11068714 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Timanator
The toxins released by the Xenia and Anenome might be bothering the Zoas. How often and how much do you change your water?

I do water changes pretty often, like ones a week or every other, about 20%.

My xenia have grown out of control. I have in the past taken a razor to them and thrown them in my sump and withen a day they attach to a rock. I never thought about it but I'm sure cutting them in half while in the tank might not be a good idea.

[ficklefins]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11070714#post11070714 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mnestroy
Sorry, the ones that open look very healthy, the ones that are not opening look like they are melted.. not sure what u mean by the skirt.

Far as fish go.

2 Perc Clowns that never leave the LTA
2 Green Cromis
1 Small Blue Tang (might be a suspect)
1 Small Powder Tang

Thank you for answering my question. It seems as though you do not have an amphipod eater in your tank. I have had an issue in my tank where my larger polyp zoa/paly would not open up and look very shrunk. When I added I a pygmy angel he stared to hunt amphibods in my frag rack and my zoas made a quick turn around. I would suggest that you get a yellow corris wrasse or another amphipod eater to take care of the over growing issue.

Here is a link to another thread about the same issue I am talking about...
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1236912

[jjmcat]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11053980#post11053980 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ficklefins
Question:
When the polyps open do they look like they are missing their skirt? Can you list all the fish you have in your system? I do not believe this is an issue with any of your fish attacking your zoas.

My new RPEs are doing this now.

[mnestroy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11071719#post11071719 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ficklefins
Thank you for answering my question. It seems as though you do not have an amphipod eater in your tank. I have had an issue in my tank where my larger polyp zoa/paly would not open up and look very shrunk. When I added I a pygmy angel he stared to hunt amphibods in my frag rack and my zoas made a quick turn around. I would suggest that you get a yellow corris wrasse or another amphipod eater to take care of the over growing issue.

Here is a link to another thread about the same issue I am talking about...
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1236912

So whats some good fish? I had a flame angel long time ago (Hmm and the zoos where healthy when he was alive).

I just want to make sure It wont give me any issues with other corals or fish, I know six line wrasse seem to be pretty popular.

[ficklefins]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11072364#post11072364 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mnestroy
So whats some good fish? I had a flame angel long time ago (Hmm and the zoos where healthy when he was alive).

I just want to make sure It wont give me any issues with other corals or fish, I know six line wrasse seem to be pretty popular.

Thank you for answering my question. Your pics looked familiar to the issue I faced in my tank. I was in the process of getting a yellow coris wrasse to deal with the issue, but since I had a nano my newly acquired pygmy angel did the trick.

I don't like telling people that this "fish" will solve your problems but if I were you I would look into getting a yellow coris wrasse. This is the best case scenario wrasse and isn't too expensive.

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?pCatId=386


good luck and if you need any more info pm me.

[mnestroy]

Thanks for the advice, your suggestion does make sense, I have seen my pod population exploide, when the lights go out I see pods all over my zoo rocks (an all rocks) I just never thought they could be eating them or bothering them.

[mnestroy]

A little update, I purchased a Mandarin Spotted Goby, and hes been eating like a pig.

I also reduced my MH lights to just 5hrs, and Actinics to 8hrs.

Done several water changes, still no luck...

Any other suggestions?

[aquarius77]

Mandrains mouths are too small to eat the type of pod that prey on zoos.

I agree that you have an amphipod issue altho i cant see any in the pics. I lost many zoos before i figured it out and it looked just like your pictures to a T.

This is the type of devil you will find gnawing on your zoas. (I stole the pic from melevs site)
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c373/euchre_skillz/New%20Reef/amphipodmelevs.jpg


I would take the mandarin back and get a wrasse. Ornate wrasse or a sixline or even a green corris are all great hunters.