help

[NAWSCM]

ok we have a 75 gal tank that we started to set up for a reef tank we got live sand and rock waited for a complete cycle about 6 weeks we then got three fish not at the same time about 3 days apart well one of the fish looked to have ick or velvet so my boy friend put medicine without consulting any one when i called him at work and told him things look to be dying i called the pet store we were told to take out 20 gal then replace it with fresh water and to put a pollr filter in the tank to get rid of the med this was 2 days ago now what can we do do we have to get all new stuff and start over

[kevin2000]

Do you know what medicine he put in the tank?

Are the fish still alive -- if so -- what symptoms do they have -- and what kind/size of fish do you have.

[NAWSCM]

MARDEL copper safe for ick velvet and external parasites and yes the fish are alive but the live rock and sand are hurting BAD

[kevin2000]

Copper is highly toxic to inverts and is considerd a "no-no" for any reef tank.

SW tanks are great but tend to be expensive and most of the diseases are deadly and not readily treatable within the show tank. All that boils down to the need to use a quarantine tank where you can keep a fish for 4-6 weeks and if the fish shows signs of a problem you can readily treat/cure without killing everything in the show tank.

If any of your fish have a disease remove them all and place them into a QT. You don't have to do this right now .. do some research and understand how to setup a QT & how to run it .. must be a zillion posts on this subject.

The suggestions your LFS gave you should help eliminate the copper from the show tank. Keep a close eye on water quality (ammonia) chances are good your going to have some die off which will create some problems.

[NAWSCM]

should we remove all the old rock and sand or not or just add new also how long could we expect the copper level to be in the tank

[kevin2000]

No simple answer

First off .. copper is more toxic to inverts than fish so a limited amt of copper isn't going to harm a FO tank.

Even if you want a reef tank some would argue that limited exposure to copper can be properly mitigated with the procedures recommended by your LFS. Some would argue that your SOL. When in doubt .. add an inexpensive invert and see how it thrives/dies.

[NAWSCM]

is the live sand dead now and if we want to add more live rock do we remove the old

[kevin2000]

The bacteria within the sand is probably OK .. some of the micro critters within the sand may have died off. Water changes should manage any decomposition water quality issues.

Some coppers can bind with calcium carbonate (aragonite sand and live rock) and if that binding has taken place some would argue that it may leach back into the water column at a later date. Probably depends more on how much, how long, and perhaps what kind of copper. I don't know the particulars of Mardel's copper product.

If your tank had a major dose of copper which sat there for a prolong period of time the binding/leaching issue risk goes up. You have to make your own risk assessment here - on one extreme you would replace both the substrate and live rock - on the other you may get away with doing nothing.

[NAWSCM]

two questions one does the qt always have to be set up or do we set it up before we get new fish. and second even after 4 days we still have slight die off and trace amounts of copper should we change the polly filter and keep it running or will that disturb the balance of the cycled tank

[kevin2000]

I strongly believe that each and every fish should be quarntined - doesn't require a lot money - only patience. Some people will always keep extra filter media within their show tanks/sumps this media will develop beneficial bacteria over a few weeks and when placed into a QT powerfilter will give you "cycled tank" - other rely on simple water changes to maintaing QT water quality - others keep a QT up an running full time.

If you still have copper readings then I would make a few major water changes - changing the poly filter may also help. Depending on how much "die off" you originally had you may see deteriorating water quality from the dying organisms - if so be prepared to make more water changes.

Don't be afraid of making large water changes ... just make sure you make up your new water a day before and try and match the temperature to your show tank.

[dvavc]

Hi all. Please help.
I have read very carefully posts of Terry B.and Lee on the Ich treatment subject, but did not really get it; how I’m suppose to keep ammonia down in my QT during 30 – 40 days of hypo salinity treatment, if live rocks will die as well as bacteria on bioballs or any other media of the wet and dry filter?
Isn’t it more practical to keep regular salinity and keep live rocks in QT and just use copper? As I understand copper does not kill live bacteria in rocks, which will control ammonia? For me daily water changes for 30-40 days is out of question, it's already getting out of hands in terms of time and nerves wasted with this thing. My QT is 50g with Aqua clear 110 hanging filter which i filed with established media from my main tank.I also transfered my live rocks from main display in to QT.However Amonia is .25 and curent salinity is 1,021, I have 2 medium size Tangs , 1 bleny, 2demsels, 1 wrass.
Thanks.
:confused:

[tmz]

Copper is an acceptable and effective treatment for cryptocaryon irritans(ich) and marine velvet(amyloodinium). If you have live rock and substrate in you quarantine tank,however, it will absorb an undeterminable amount of the copper you put in making it a little tricky to maintain a therapuetic level. You will have to test your copper level and add as needed to offset this variance without dosing too much which can harm your fish.

[dvavc]

What about hypo salinity how to keep amonia under control without live rocks?
BTW if anybody knows at what level salinity live rocks start to die?

[kevin2000]

No offense intended but your better off starting a seperate thread rather than taking over someone elses.

[NAWSCM]

can i put all the fish we now have in a qt tank and retreat them for the ick since the med was only in it for a short time. or some one told my b/f to just dip them in tap water which did not sound like really good advice i told him to wait until i had your answer

[tmz]

A fresh water dip will not kill cryptocaryon that are inside the fish.It can be used but I only use it when there is a very heavy infestation and I think I am probably going to loose the fish if I don't cut down some of what is on it. I don't like to expose fish to chlorinated water in any case. If you are going to do a fresh water dip make sure the temperature of the dip is the same as your tank water and dechlorinate it. I can't remeber the amount of time but you can find threads on it . The spots you see on the fish are wounds where the parasite has left the body of the fish. Treat in quarantine. If you wan't to learn a little bit more about "ich" and how to treat it,you may wan't to google Crytocaryon irritans and you wil find a wealth of information.Or do a search on the Fish Disease and Treatment forum here on RC.