Need more RO/DI advice..

[cd77]

Looking for some RO/DI help again!

I'm torn between a SpectraPure MaxCap and a Filter Guys Ocean Reef +2 -- I like the SpectraPure because of the SilicaBuster cartridge, though I like the Filter Guys system because of the optional Chloramine filter upgrade.

Is the SilicaBuster worth it? Would the MaxCap take care of Chloramine for me? Conversely, would the FilterGuys system take care of Silicates?

Maybe a combination of filters from the two if they are interchangeable.. any advice is appreciated as always! :)

[Playa-1]

I'm sure you would be perfectly happy with either unit.
The best results would be to run the water through a good energy efficient water softener and then through a RO/DI system.
This would dramatically improve the life of the filters in the RO/DI system especially the RO membrane. It would also extend the life of the DI media and produce an excellent end result.
Keep in mind that none of the systems produce pure H2O. They simply filter the water to make it much better then it was before it went through the system.

[cd77]

I wish I would have had my house pre-plumbed for a good water softener before we built it. Do they make decent ones that can be installed under a sink?

Curious -- the Spectra unit costs substantially more than the Filter Guys unit, any reason why people are paying more for the Specrapure?

[Playa-1]

I believe Spectrapure is doing some added value services and they are getting a little more for their units for that reason. I think the custom aspect of the service might be beneficial if you were on a well system and had regional specific issues. I've heard they will custom blend DI resin and pretest RO membranes and things of that nature. The reality is they buy the RO membranes from the same manufactures that the other water treatment people do. I like their system with the little booster pump because that will help the RO to operate more efficiently then a unit that is on city pressure. I didn't see a price on it and i'm sure they are charging an arm and a leg. The more efficient system will use less water to make a gallon of filtered water. You would have to decide if that improved efficiency was worth the initial cost. To me water is cheap. The water that is discharged from the system is not bad water, it is water that was not forced through the membrane, so you do not have to waste the water. It can be sent to plants, lawn, bird bath, or you can make coffee with it. It's filtered tap water. So with that in mind i would say that with the exception of the unit with the booster pump they are going to be virtually the same exact system with the same exact results. One just cost a lot more then the other.

I used to be in the water treatment business and i've seen many whole house and light commercial systems installed. As far as preplumbing goes i had a really nice system retrofitted into my last house. They can get very creative so if your interested in a whole house unit, you may want to talk to one of your local companies and see what they can do for you. They will pay for themselves over a period of time if you play your cards right.

There is a guy on another thread posting that he had 300 ppm going into the system and 7 ppm coming out. If he had a softener before that system i'm sure he would be sportin a big fat 0 coming out. And His filters would last a lot longer.

I'm in a rental right now and i really miss the water system we had. We had it set up on Potassium instead of salt so we could drain the back wash cycle into the yard. The potassium was a couple more dollars per bag but we didn't have to retro a drain pipe in our garage.

[cd77]

I'll call around and get some prices :) If it can increase the lifespan of cartridges and membranes -- or even improve our health, it would certainly be worth it over time as you said :)

I've got ~500ppm coming out of the faucet, and about 13ppm after RO. DI tests 0 sometimes, 1 other times, but the RO membrane is old and my AWT results came back with very high silica (or silicates) which I'm assuming right now is because the RODI unit isn't filtering them.

I'm not too concerned about water waste to be honest. Compared to the irrigation system, the cost is negligible.

I did notice that the difference in pre-filter micron size was a bit different between the two units, but the Filter Guys has three pre-filters.. all too confusing for me!

Spectra: 0.5 Sediment, 0.5 Carbon
Filter Guys: 5 Sediment, 5 Carbon, 0.6 Chlorine

Which of the two units would you go for, Playa-1?

No advice from AZDesertRat or WaterKeeper on this one?? :)

[kuoka]

I have a SpectraPure Maxpure but as Playa says, both are good units. I heard the service and price from The Filter Guys are good. I bought mine from Marine Depot and the service was good (I think I could've saved a little more $ if I looked around though).

[Vin7250]

I could b e wrong but isnt the point of an ro/di to remove minerals and solids from the water?? if it is, then why would you run your water through a softner that just runs water through a form of salt.....wouldnt that just add more minerals?? not being sarcastic just wondering?

[Playa-1]

If i owned my own house with 500 ppm coming out of the faucets i wouldn't think twice about getting a whole house system put in. Over time that high tds water will likely screw up waterpipes, waterheaters, faucets, and anything else attached to it. It's a good investment if your planning to stay there for a while. A little known fact is that soaps and detergents work much more effectively in soft water as well which helps laundry and dishwashing equipment work more effectively.

I am actually getting ready to purchase this unit from The Filter Guys. I have to do a little research on my local water supply because i suspect that they are using Chloramine in which case i may need to consider upgrading the filters. I'm not going to install a water softener in this rental unit :)

$230.00 - OCEAN REEF + 2 SIX STAGE 75 GPD RO/DI

Here is a cool article worth checking out
www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-05/rhf/index.php

[Playa-1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11064087#post11064087 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Vin7250
I could b e wrong but isnt the point of an ro/di to remove minerals and solids from the water?? if it is, then why would you run your water through a softner that just runs water through a form of salt.....wouldnt that just add more minerals?? not being sarcastic just wondering?

Actually the Softener acts as a sediment prefilter on steroids to preserve the life of the filters and Membrane of the RO/DI system. The softener uses resin to attract mineral hardness as the water passes through the system. The salt or potassium is used during a recharging or cleaning process that is usually automated that people set up to occur in the middle of the night.

Some people live in area that have naturally soft water and wouldn't have the slightest use for a softener.

Some of us live in areas that have horrible water quality and to top it off our local water treatment facility adds fluoride and Chlormine to the water supply to make our reef keeping experience more difficult :)

[barngeatbayman]

is your tap water Silica high in your area. If not I wouldn't worry about it the DI resin will take care of it. Do you have cholormines in your tap? If not added to your city water no need for that either. Both units are great!!! I have the Filter Guy's Ocean Reef +1. Jim's customer service is second to none. Ask him questions become educated. You wont be disappointed with either unit!!!

[Playa-1]

This is another good point. I wouldn't want my expensive RO membrane or my expensive Di resin being wasted on what a $3 50lb bag of salt could do for months in a softener.

[cd77]

I need to get a Chloaramine test (Chlorine doesn't appear to be measuring so I assume that Chloramine is being used) and a decent silica test -- but from my AWT results, I have a feeling it's not my salt that is too blame.

I just tested my tap again a few times, getting readings between 460 and 485.

Good point regarding the membranes and resin, playa. Can anyone recommend a good water softener company?

[Playa-1]

I would get a few estimates from local companies.

[cd77]

Well, I'm more concerned about the brand I guess.. or are they all pretty equal? I know there are salt-less ones, some that require weekly maintenance (or so I've read) others that require little to none, etc..

edit - "concerned" isn't the right word -- just looking for something tried and true :)

[rlee81indy]

playa-1, in the loungs there is a thread called rate the avatar above you. I have to say yours is a ten. Sniper kitten...awesome

[Playa-1]

Thanks rlee81 :)

[Playa-1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11064905#post11064905 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by cd77
Well, I'm more concerned about the brand I guess.. or are they all pretty equal? I know there are salt-less ones, some that require weekly maintenance (or so I've read) others that require little to none, etc..

edit - "concerned" isn't the right word -- just looking for something tried and true :)

Maybe look into RainSoft, Culligan, and look into a couple of locals. A homeshow is a great place to visit with some of the local water treatment guys. Get them to compete against eachother :)
Definately shop around because some units are more effecient then others are. Some have lifetime resin, some may have a very energy and water efficient regeneration cycles, Some may bend over backward to do a custom retrofit install for you. :)

I felt bad for the plumber that had to install my last system. He had to run a line across my yard, under the sidewalk, through a flower bed into my garage and mount the system in a cabinet because i didn't want to look at it. Hahaha. That guy did a great job too... The guy did it for less then what i used to sell RainSoft systems for so i was pleased.

[cd77]

Ok :) Thank you! I was just looking at Culligan's site in fact. From one site I looked at it looks like I'll be in the $1000 - $1500 range. Sound about right?

[Playa-1]

I think i paid about 3k for my last one but that included a whole house Carbon and a RO system under the sink and a crazy install :) I've sold systems for $4500 for about the same set up.
So i would say that $1500 sounds reasonable and if you can get it for less then thats even better.

[Duff Man]

If you're not afraid to solder pipe, I would recommend installing it yourself. I did last winter and it was much easier than I thought. You'll save a ton of money. I even put zones in to make sure the outside spigots use hard water instaed of wasting salt when watering the lawn or plants.

[cd77]

Alrighty! :) Thanks for the advice folks (and yes, Duff, certain DIY projects that I get myself into end up costing me more in time and money than if I would have hired someone! lol)

I think I'll call a few companies out next week and see what their opinions are!

Again, all of your advice has been very helpful. Thank you!

[cd77]

For those of you interested, this is what I ended up buying for now until I can explain to my wife the benefits of a water softener (without getting the 'stop spending money on your tank!! bit..')

I wasn't able to find any information on silica reports from my local water company -- it looks like few others are having success with this either. I'm still very leery of their silica results mind you, but what the hell.

1. I went ahead and bought the full Filter Guys Ocean Reef +2 system. I'm really happy with how Jim responded to promptly and courteously to my last question in their forum here. I'm also pleased with his Professionalism and the quality of their website in comparison to SpectraPure.

2. I purchased the two stage DI (MaxCap, SilicaBuster) unit from SpectraPure along with a good Com-100 TDS meter.

I happen to agree with some who say that a decent, well maintained RODI unit will take care of Silica to the extent where it shouldn't be introduced into our tanks in any significant amount.

Maybe this is overkill, maybe not -- the "Bill Nye geeky guy" in me wants to see 1) whether or not AWT's results are highly questionable, 2) whether not just having a new RODI (The Filter Guys) unit will help with the diatoms, and 3) whether or not this SilicaBuster is really worth it (and there are more factors than just reducing silicates according to their marketing) -- I know there are a lot of other factors I'm obviously dismissing and I'm by no means an expert -- just want to be on the right track for future goals -- it's only a matter of time before my wall divider becomes a 200G BB reef glistening with SPS and rare treasures from the seas!

... and most importantly, I have various visits from UPS and Fedex to look forward to over the next week or two! Yippeee!!

Now if only we could get those salt results back from AWT to see what silica results they get from lab grade pure water and various salt mixes -- and whether or not the Silica/Molybdenum results are bunk.

[Playa-1]

Good for you :)
For what it's worth My wife was extremely scepticle when i was initially talking to here about a softener. We live in California and the water really sux here :)
After we got it she was totally hooked. I was really suprised at how much she liked it. Once we get another house she will not blink and eye and getting another good water treatment system.

[cd77]

Thank you! :) Yippee! More toys to play with! :D

I think the Culligan man will get a call on Monday!