Clown trigger

[Mr31415]

What is the optimal (minimum) tank size to keep a Clown trigger happy for its entire life span? Also, what other fish / coral / inverts are 100% compatible with it?

I have one but it is a menace in my 480g predator tank. So I decided if I can, I will make a special tank for it.

[Monstrigity]

If your clown trigger is out of control you might have to build him a species tank. I have heard accounts of clown triggers eating the eyes out of fish in 10,000 gal. tanks. Some of them just won't get along with anything. If yours is mean it will probably just keep getting worse as he gets bigger. I would say absolute minimum tank size for a single clown trigger without any other fish would be a 180gal. Obviously, bigger would be better.

[Mr31415]

Thanks. Yeah by mean I mean he would swim between the rocks and bite my comet's tail, the large green brittle star's legs, tries to bite my Naso's tail etc. Like a real troublesome kid. But I really like that fish.

The other question - fish / coral / invert compatibility in a tank of say 200g?

[mattsilvester]

Personally - if I were considering a species tank for a clown trigger (which I often have) then I would probably keep just the trigger, maybe a really tough, quick wrasse (like a lunare), and a decent sized group of blue damsels.

I would make sure there were plenty of nooks and crannies that only the damsels could get into, so they could escape the attentions of the wrasse and clown trigger.

I would then have lots of places where the wrasse could escape the trigger (Shouldn't be too hard).

And finally, I would have on refuge for the trigger.

I'd intriduce them all at the same time.

I'd have a large filter system and feed the trigger heavily.

Corals - you might get away with some softies like star polyps, shrooms and leathers...... then again the trigger might shred the lot just for the hell of it.

In terms of tank size - I think it is difficult to put size on it...... If the animal gets big - and I mean near natural sizes - then a 180 is notgoing to be near big enough......

If he maxes out at say 12-14", then maybe a tank that is say 6'long x 30"wide x 24" deep, but that would be pretty much minimum really and borders on "just because you can do it, it doesn't mean you should".

HTH - and its just my opinion.

Matt

[Mr31415]

Excellent post Matt - thanks. I am seriously consider making a species tank for it.

I assume SPS and LPS is out? So too any inverts? Such as shrimps, serpent stars and urchins?

[DamnPepShrimp]

I'd say pretty much all inverts are out of the question, especially since your's is already a menace.

[Mr31415]

Maybe menace is the wrong word... He is like a bored 3 year old child.... A little bit destructive, cute and charming.

[LauraCline]

I'm not sure how big yours it but, I recently saw a very large adult (12-14") in the flesh and he was suprisingly large girth wise as well as length and extremely active. I would go to at least a 210 or 240 - better the 240 for the 8' length. IMO, if there was ever a fish to do a species tank for it's the CT. You just can't beat the intelligence, looks, and amazing power of these guys. On a side note, this one was in by himself but he looked like he could easily rip anything he wanted to to shreds including your arm. If you do put anything in with him, make sure they are really fast, lol.

[Monstrigity]

I think putting some damsels in with him could work if you don't mind replenishing your stock every so often because the trigger will get lucky sometimes. As far as inverts go, don't put anything in with him your not willing to lose!

[mattsilvester]

As far as the trigger catching the damsels - you might have to replenish them once in a while, but Clown Triggers are exactly specialised fish hunters, and damsels are too stupid either.

I remember many years ago (about 15 or so) my uncle had a 5' tank with a panther grouper and a miniata grouper (as well as a few other fish) and he had 4 damsels in there too. No real cover for the damsels, just big rocks and they burrowed under the rocks - as I am sure you know, groupers are FAST and they are designed to hunt down little fish like damsels - but they never suceeeded.......

So long as the trigger is well fed, I would think he would lack the motivation to get up any real speed or agility.

Fish like Chromis would be at greater risk, in my opinion, because they are open water plankton feeders, than constantly put themselves in harms way, and rely on the shoal (which is somewhat diminished in the home aquarium) for protection and the refuge of vast coral heads - which is neither practical or feasible in a tank containing a CT. But damsels are quick and smart and will stay close to cover....... as would some dwarf angels........

HTH

Matt

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<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11073368#post11073368 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Mr31415
What is the optimal (minimum) tank size to keep a Clown trigger happy for its entire life span? Also, what other fish / coral / inverts are 100% compatible with it?

I have one but it is a menace in my 480g predator tank. So I decided if I can, I will make a special tank for it.
200g minimum for a good size CT .
My never eat nip or care about any corals or my cleaner shrimps.
He was about 10" i had him for four years .
The problem with the CT fish was he like to move thing around the tank that was the problem knocking down corals everyday and when they get that big you don't need to put your hand in the tank to rearrange the corals so no coral need to be in the same tank with the CT when he gets BIG. He was a powerful fish he will move a five LBS Live rock across the BB tank very easy.
I miss mine dearly he die from head infection after a bloody fight with a super size Tusk fish.

[Mr31415]

I can get a tank 1.8m x 600mm x 650mm high (6ft x 2ft x 2.2ft). It would only be the clown trigger, some LR, and maybe a lunare wrasse.

I can get a Deltec APH525 skimmer, large refugium with cheato. 1 Tunze 6010 stream for flow. Would this be good enough?

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<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11088302#post11088302 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Mr31415
I can get a tank 1.8m x 600mm x 650mm high (6ft x 2ft x 2.2ft). It would only be the clown trigger, some LR, and maybe a lunare wrasse.

I can get a Deltec APH525 skimmer, large refugium with cheato. 1 Tunze 6010 stream for flow. Would this be good enough?
Mine eat the power cord from the Tunze so be careful .

[Mr31415]

:) Is it safe to keep a clown trigger in a glass tank???? :)

I will try and find a hard plastic wrapper to wrap around the cable. Nothing else will be in the tank (wiring wise)

[mattsilvester]

Mr31415
The equipment your list - is that because you already have this stuff? If not:

In my humble view - the skimmer is not up to the task. I'd be looking at an AP701 or AP851 as a minimum.
Tunze is an expensive toy for a CT to chomp on. I would be more inclined to have a decent return pump, circulating as much water as possible instead, and use teh left over cash to spend on the skimmer.
Is it going to be FOWLR of FO with a trickle tower arrangement? The latter might mean big water changes etc in time to keek nitrates acceptably low (less than 50ppm).

Personally - I would set up the tank with twin overflows, each with decent sized bulkhead fittings to allow for max water flow to sump. I would get a skimmer like the AP851 or the AP701, and plumb the waste through the skimmer to physically remove as much waste as possible. I'd have a decent return pump putting at least 1200 gals/hour through the sump. All heaters etc in sump. Use "jet nozzle" type fittings to increase water velocity at outlets. Don't waste money on Good LR - buy good base rock (dead LR) and seed with a couple of nice "meaty" pieces. As far as the refugium goes - I wouldn't bother - I'd just seed the main tank with a few different species of caulerpa instead like Ed Kruzel's old tank and let it grow wild. A few star polyps and 'shrooms migh survive in and around the macro.

Sicne your CT is already a decent size, I'd dump in half a dozen blue devel damsels and a lunatic wrasse (thats not a typo, though I do refer to the lunare!) first, then the trigger shortly after.

I just wouldn't risk anything in the tank with a wire.......... he's munch through the hard plastic, then the cable, if he so desires.

HTH

Matt

[Mr31415]

Well I am about to pay for it right now. I have actually already paid, but I will change the skimmer to one of those you recommended, and leave the tunze. Your reasoning makes sense to me.

If the (single) overflow can handle the flow, do you think a Haelia HX 6850 pump would be adequate for flow in the tank should I decide to add some large softies such as leather/colt corals? That pump does 7000l/h (1850g/h) and 5m head hight. The drilled hole is 50mm in diameter (2")... I hope this is wide enough to handle that amount of flow. (PS the tank has already been built - only 1 overflow chamber)

I'll leave the refugium and just have a nice 500mm x 550mm x 450mm sump.

PS: The blue devil damsels and lunatic wrasse... Is that just to get some additional life in the tank or do they fulfill any specific purpose?

[mattsilvester]

note* "Lunatic" wrasse is just my own personal "joking" name for them - just in case you don't realise :D - and if you have every seen one (especially diving) you'll know why!

I say the wrasse coz it is lively and bright colours and a really cool fish and about the only thing I can think of that will go with a clown trigger with any chance of sucess......

The blue devil damsels for a bit of life, colour, and they will pick up any little scraps of food (which I am guessing will be plentiful).

A 2" hole will take a 1.5" bulkhead which should easily take 1000 gals/hr - probably nearer to 1200..... not familiar with that pump - what flow rate will it produce at your given head? I'd personally aim at something that will produce 1200 gals or so, at the head you need ..... you can always tap it back a bit.....

Do you intend on having sand? Dunno how a clown trigger will behave with a DSB? It wold cetianly help manage nitrates etc...... but he might just blow it all up for fun.....

Sounds like a great tank - I'm sitting in from of my 8x2x2 tank now thinking!

As far as the skimmer - just make sure you can fit it in whereever you intend to put it, and then get the biggest one you can afford!

This is gonna be a cool tank!

[Mr31415]

note* "Lunatic" wrasse is just my own personal "joking" name for them - just in case you don't realise - and if you have every seen one (especially diving) you'll know why!
Got me there! :)

The flow rate is 7000l/h - at the height of the tank it should drop to 5600l/h (1400gph). The inner diameter of the bulk head is 1.37".

I want a DSB of fine oolitic sand. If he wants to blow it all up in to the air - at least it will keep him busy!

The tank is nicely designed - it is higher than usual. I'd estimate I have about 900mm underneath the tank for stuff... lots of space.

They will drop off the tank tomorrow... The sump is custom built so I will have to wait a couple of days for that. Can't wait myself - but I think my clown trigger is the most excited to get out of the QT tank and be able to be a menace again :)

PS: Have you ever experienced the *Lunare* wrasse to take out the eyes of other fish? My LFS told me it would damage the trigger...

[mattsilvester]

No, I haven't exoereinced it, nor have I heard of it, but if someone said it happened to them I could easill believe it.

The mexican lolipop wrasse is nice too (cortez wrasse) - similarly quick, not quite so aggressive.

Sounds like its gonna be a great tank.

[JJ21]

try to keep us updated with pictures :)

[Mr31415]

:) I will... Here is a teaser

http://reef.gamma.za.net/home/180g_species/ (http://reef.gamma.za.net/home/180g_species)

[Mr31415]

Yesterday evening I had the biggest fright. I have shone my flashlight in to my QT tank, only to see my clown trigger lying on its side, motionless. Not responding to the light - not moving at all.

Upon further inspection I saw its gills move... This morning swimming around like usual. I never knew they sleep like us!!!

[mattsilvester]

yeah, most fish go all dopey once lights are out.

[Monstrigity]

Yep, I've even witnessed fish sleeping upside down before(emperor angel).

[Mr31415]

But this clown sleeps like us! I swear if I was underwater he was snoring.... And that he turns sides too

[r.d.m]

sounds like a great tank,if you do get some damsels a large piece of dead acro is good cover