Need some help....

[rdy4flt]

Hello,

I haven't posted in a while but I started my SW tank setup back in Feb. Tank has been running great but ever since about march or april I've been waging the war against algae. Let me give you some tank specifics.

Haven't done a water test in a little while so I can't tell you much but last time I did it everything was well within normal limits, except the gravity...it was a little high. I have a 28 gallon tank, 30 pounds of live rock, Aqua C Remora protein skimmer, JBJ Artica Chiller, CF 50/50 bulbs, MH that I run for a few hours a day. My live stock includes: Clown fish, lemon peel angel, blue tang, cleaner shrimp and and army of snails to help out. I recently(a month ago) added a flower pot coral, colt coral, torch coral and 2 clams. Unfortunately the 2 clams and colt coral fell victim to a strange little slug (two of them actually) that I still haven't been able to identify but I removed them promptly upon discovery...see pic below. In any case, I have torch coral and flower pot coral left.


I am having the hardest time keeping the algae under control. Every water change and sometimes in between I try to remove as much algae as possible but it manages to come back just a week or two later. I've tried red slime remover when the occasion called for it but other than that I just stick to the water changes. I've read that some people don't even use protein skimmers, should I keep mine, is it something that is needed to sustain a healthy tank? I notice a lot of algae built up in the skimmer that I also clean out.

I was thinking about doing a water change tonight and repositioning the live rock...now that I have these corals I need to make a better home for them. Is it wise to use a soft tooth brush to remove algae from the rocks? I was thinking of doing that in a bucket of water that I remove from the tank. Clean the algae off of the rocks and with the rock out of the tank sift the algae out of the sand and put the rock back into the tank.


Sorry for this long post that is all over the place but I'm just a little frustrated especially since I'm relatively new at this. Any advice you can give is greatly appreciated.


Here is a pic of that slug and my late colt coral. After I removed the intruders the coral detached from the rock and died. :(

http://photos.readyforflight.com/images/A_2/7/3/1/1372/4f13jhxj.jpg



Rudi

[bertoni]

How much food is going into the tank per day?

[super stooge]

im new to salt water so there is a good chance im completly wrong in everything i say but i think u should take a look at ur phosphate. it could be a contributing factor. also in a new tank different algal blooms are normal from what ive seen and heard.

[rdy4flt]

I have an automatic feeder with flake food. Feedings are twice daily but only about a quarter size portion. Aside from that I add to the tank, as recommended per the directions....Kent Marine - Liquid Calcium, Iodine, Essential Minerals, Iron and I alternate daily between Coral Life and Phytoplankton.




Rudi

[rdy4flt]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11084804#post11084804 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by super stooge
im new to salt water so there is a good chance im completly wrong in everything i say but i think u should take a look at ur phosphate. it could be a contributing factor. also in a new tank different algal blooms are normal from what ive seen and heard.

I'll have to check that tonight.

[bertoni]

That's probably too much fish food for the tank. As a reference, I might feed 1/8 cube of the frozen Formula 1 per day, or so, as a starting point. I don't know what Coral Life is, or what kind of phytoplankton is being fed, so I can't comment there.

FWIW, I'd discontinue the iodine and Essential Elements, since they're unlikely to help much, and might hurt.

[rdy4flt]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11085248#post11085248 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bertoni
That's probably too much fish food for the tank. As a reference, I might feed 1/8 cube of the frozen Formula 1 per day, or so, as a starting point. I don't know what Coral Life is, or what kind of phytoplankton is being fed, so I can't comment there.

FWIW, I'd discontinue the iodine and Essential Elements, since they're unlikely to help much, and might hurt.

I'll tone down the feedings to once a day and use a smaller portion. My main concern before was not feeding enough.

Sorry, I was thinking of something else when I said Coral Life...I meant Coral Frenzy.

http://www.coralfrenzy.co.uk/coral-frenzy.jpg

The phytoplankton I use is DT's Premium Reef Blend.

http://www.petstore.com/IMD/250/DT1137/DT1137_99.jpg

When would I use the Iodine and Essential Elements, if ever?


Thankyou so much for the help. :) I really do appreciate it.

btw - do you know what type of slug or worm I pictured above?

rudi

[bertoni]

I wouldn't dose iodine, since it doesn't seem to be useful to dose. The chemistry forum has more. If you do wish to dose, I'd recommend getting an iodine test kit. Overdoses can be very harmful. I wouldn't dose the Essential Elements at all, since it's a cocktail mix of ingredients. Water changes should add all the elements, including iodine, that are needed.

DT's is a fine food, but I wouldn't feed more than 1/2 tsp or so per day. I don't know enough about the Coral Frenzy to comment, but it's likely to be very high in nutrients. I'd discontinue it for the moment. The torch coral might appreciate a tiny bit, but the algae-bacterial problem needs to be solved first.

The slug might have been a polyclad flatworm or a nudibranch. I'm not good at ids. Did they have any internal skeleton at all?

[rdy4flt]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11085340#post11085340 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bertoni
I wouldn't dose iodine, since it doesn't seem to be useful to dose. The chemistry forum has more. If you do wish to dose, I'd recommend getting an iodine test kit. Overdoses can be very harmful. I wouldn't dose the Essential Elements at all, since it's a cocktail mix of ingredients. Water changes should add all the elements, including iodine, that are needed.

DT's is a fine food, but I wouldn't feed more than 1/2 tsp or so per day. I don't know enough about the Coral Frenzy to comment, but it's likely to be very high in nutrients. I'd discontinue it for the moment. The torch coral might appreciate a tiny bit, but the algae-bacterial problem needs to be solved first.

The slug might have been a polyclad flatworm or a nudibranch. I'm not good at ids. Did they have any internal skeleton at all?

You are very knowledgeable and awesome person, let me tell you. :) Thanks again for the help.

Iodine and essential elements will be discontinued. So only 1/2 tsp or DT a day? I have been doing the DT one day and Coral Frenzy the next day. For the dosing on both of these I have just been following the recommended feeding on the side of the bottle which is 1 tsp per 15 gallons for the DT(every other day) and 1/4 tsp per 50 gal tank(2 to 3 times per week)


Coral Frenzy info:

http://www.coralfrenzy.com/info.html

I copy and pasted some of the info from the link above...

CORAL FRENZY CONTAINS:
Oyster Larvae, Salmon Roe, Fish Protein, Rotifers, Copepods, Daphnia, Dunaliella salina, Haematococcus Pluvialis, Spirulina, & Schizochytrium. It is rich in amino acids, proteins, carotenoids, HUFA, PUFA, & Omega 3 & 6 fatty acids.

The combination of these ingredients creates a notable feeding response and helps with coral growth and color as they consume the product. Coral Frenzy is a great food for sps, lps, zoanthids, softies, and other filter feeding organisms.

NUTRITIONAL ANALYSIS:
Crude Protein (min) 52.8%, Crude Fat (min) 9.8%, Crude Fiber (max) 1.6%, Ash (max) 14.2%, Moisture (max) 6.8%, Omega 3 (min) 26.7%, Omega 6 (min) 10.6%.


Regarding the slug..no I don't believe it had an internal skeleton.

Thanks again.

Rudi

[bertoni]

Feeding directions have a lot of guesswork. For now, I'd back off on the Coral Frenzy and the DT's.

I have no idea what that slug is. It's interesting, though.

[seapug]

I'd suspect your food inputs as the main contributor as well. Your tank is pretty small and you're putting a lot in there. It's all phosphate-- the main culprit in algae blooms 99.999% of the time.

I'd cease all the supplements and a feed fish a smaller amount food once/day at most. I'd even cut back to every other day for a while, do small (couple gallons) water changes a couple times/wk for a while. Yank out as much algae as you can by hand before each water change.

Might also be a good idea to look into a Phosban reactor and media. They are relatively cheap, easy to set up, and very effective for stripping problem nutrients from the water.

Don't give up....I've been there.

[rdy4flt]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11087245#post11087245 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bertoni
Feeding directions have a lot of guesswork. For now, I'd back off on the Coral Frenzy and the DT's.

I have no idea what that slug is. It's interesting, though.

Will do. As far as the water change I will be doing in the next day or two...is it safe for me to let's say remove the algae from the live rock with a soft tooth brush in a bucket with water I removed from the water change? I want to do a little live rock re-arranging to accommodate the torch and flower pot corals.

My torch coral seems to be doing ok but the flower pot coral has not extended out since I brought it home about a month ago. There is a circular patch of empty "cells" on the flower pot coral. The rest seems to still look good, its yellow/green in color and with my moon lighting at night it kind of glows. I'm getting concerned with it, I don't want to lose it. Any ideas?

Again, thank you very much for your help.


Rudi

[bertoni]

Flower pots (Goniopora) don't tend to do well over the long haul. If it's close to the torch, it might be getting stung, too. Hard to say.

[rdy4flt]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11087267#post11087267 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by seapug
I'd suspect your food inputs as the main contributor as well. Your tank is pretty small and you're putting a lot in there. It's all phosphate-- the main culprit in algae blooms 99.999% of the time.

I'd cease all the supplements and a feed fish a smaller amount food once/day at most. I'd even cut back to every other day for a while, do small (couple gallons) water changes a couple times/wk for a while. Yank out as much algae as you can by hand before each water change.

Might also be a good idea to look into a Phosban reactor and media. They are relatively cheap, easy to set up, and very effective for stripping problem nutrients from the water.

Don't give up....I've been there.

Thankyou. :) I'm doing my best not to give up...as you know it can get stressful. I just changed the auto feeder to once a day with a small portion of food. I'll have to look into the Phosban reactor and media you mentioned.

I will keep you guys posted on the progress. I will be doing water change on Friday...it's the only chance I have to get some salt water.


Rudi

[seapug]

The flower pot coral is worthy of it's own thread, but I'd start with getting the algae under control. I've used toothbrushes and tweezers to knock down problem areas in the past. Go for it.

[rdy4flt]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11087307#post11087307 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bertoni
Flower pots (Goniopora) don't tend to do well over the long haul. If it's close to the torch, it might be getting stung, too. Hard to say.

The Flower pot is on the other side of the tank. I've tried moving it from the sand floor to up on the rock. It seems to be reacting a little better to the new location on the rocks. What corals would be good for me to get? I got the torch in the hopes it would provide something for my clown fish but having seen anything yet. I just want to get my algae under control then I'll get more into corals but I want to know what to get, obviously nothing too fragile.



Rudi

[rdy4flt]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11087319#post11087319 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by seapug
The flower pot coral is worthy of it's own thread, but I'd start with getting the algae under control. I've used toothbrushes and tweezers to knock down problem areas in the past. Go for it.


Yeah the flower pot coral is pretty cool but I just wish it would show itself. Agreed...my priority is the algae issue. Toothbrush here I come...thanks!!!! :):):)


Rudi

[papagimp]

IN regards to the slug-thing, heres a link to wetwebmedia, about half way down there is a message with pic that looks almost identicle to your pic, bob fenner describes that one as just a Opisthobranch/Seaslug species. NO positive ID but it's the closest thing i could find that may help.

look for this title "Pics and ? Nudibranch and polyp/anemones 3/28/07"

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/nudiidfaqs.htm

[greenbean36191]

The slug is Tritoniopsis elegans, which is a fairly common predator of leathers.

[melev]

That is very interesting papagimp & greenbean.

Feeding less food once a day, and at that food that isn't quite as 'loaded' with nutrients would help in your situation.

The goni is a tough coral to keep alive in captivity, and feeding it daily with Coral Frenzy is probably key, but I would endeavor to feed it out of the tank. Scoop up the coral (on its perch) into a submerged container so you can take it out full submerged. Drizzle it with food so the polyps can grab a meal, then replace it back in the tank within 15 mins to avoid letting the water cool too much in the holding vessel. If the coral gets used to this system, you can feed it easily as long as it cooperates and is open to receiving your feeding regime.

Feeding it out of the tank avoids adding too many nutrients to the main display. The same method is used with sun corals as well.

[plyr58]

Running phosguard in your sump or filter will remove phosphates pretty effectively. Have you done all the things to Id your algae source. (Phosphate test, sunlight not on your tank, ample flow, etc.) How about a pic of the algae. Fixing the problem depends on what species it is.

[rdy4flt]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11089142#post11089142 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by plyr58
Running phosguard in your sump or filter will remove phosphates pretty effectively. Have you done all the things to Id your algae source. (Phosphate test, sunlight not on your tank, ample flow, etc.) How about a pic of the algae. Fixing the problem depends on what species it is. I will post up a pic of the algae after dinner.

Thanks for the advice guys. I will try feeding the Goni out of the tank and see how it responds. As it stands I have suspended Iodine and Essential Elements. I have cut down on the feeding to a smaller portion once a day.

Should I continue with the Liquid Calcium, Iron, Strontium & Molybdenum, Coral Frenzy and Phytoplankton?


Rudi

[bertoni]

The strontium and molybdenum probably shouldn't be dosed, either. Feeding the Coral Frenzy in a separate container is a good idea, in my opinion. I'd continue with the DT's.

Dosing both calcium and alkalinity is normal. The Liquid Calcium is fine for calcium. What's being dosed for alkalinity?