Are some skimmers better suited for ozone?

[SDguy]

Just something that popped into my head while posting in another thread. I recently started using ozone with my beckett skimmer. The skimmate is absolutely disgusting, and frankly smells up the whole room, even with the carbon over the waste collector vent. A fellow reefer is experiencing the same thing.

Now I've read and experienced the opposite, where the ozone seems to kill the skimmate production.

Is the amount of turbulence in the skimmer affecting the ozone use? Is this more of a factor than dwell time? I would have thought that on a beckett, which processes so much water, that I would smell ozone exiting the skimmer, but I do not. Again, is this a function of the skimmer itself? Simply a function of the amount of ozone introduced?

Just curious as to peoples' thoughts on this...

[BrokeColoReefer]

I will share my experence on that subject. I am experencing the same results as SD, and i happen to be that other reefer that he is talking about.
My ozone set up is a sanders 50 mg unit running through a MRC MR-2R. I use no carbon on the collection container output, or the skimmer water return. Not once have i smelled ozone in my fish room. If i take off the hose to the collection cup, i get a wiff of ozone, but its hardly detectable. My skimmate is dark and nasty, and production has not seemed affected at all.

In contrast, my previous setup was a ASM G4X, the ozone was tapped in the body of the skimmer, and the skimmer produced a white, creamy, wet skimmate that had no smell, and the fish room reeked of ozone.

Im photo happy today :)


http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a168/BrokeColoReefer/IMG_0385.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a168/BrokeColoReefer/IMG_0393.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a168/BrokeColoReefer/IMG_0391.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a168/BrokeColoReefer/IMG_6626.jpg

[H20ENG]

Yep, theres a breakpoint dosage that will begin to kill skimmers effectiveness. I cant remember the actual dosage rate, its in my notes from way back in my public aquarium days.

Basically the ozone is breaking the chemical compounds down rather than the skimmer pulling them out.

But when used in small doses, it really helps the skimmer pull out the puke, which you noted as extra nasty:) You almost need a second ozonizer for the smell of the skimmate.

[SDguy]

So in that train of thought...is their an absolute amount of ozone a tank can take, or can perhapos some skimmers handle AND use more ozone better/efficiently?

[H20ENG]

The absolute amount is whatever you want your ORP to rise to. You really dont want the system to get above 400mV due to hypobromous acids produced by the bromine (naturally occuring) and ozone- they can linger and harm the livestock.

We used to run a sidestream loop up to 650-700mV for disinfection and water polishing. This was mixed back in the main flow, degassed then fed to the tanks.

There is a dosage rate that is optimal for skimming, but I dont remember it, sorry. I do have it in my notes from a conference years ago (buried in a box somewhere in the garage). I think it was from Andy Aiken at the Nat'l aquarium in Baltimore. It was an AZA conference.

I'll see if I can find more info..

[SDguy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11101031#post11101031 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by H20ENG
The absolute amount is whatever you want your ORP to rise to. You really dont want the system to get above 400mV due to hypobromous acids produced by the bromine (naturally occuring) and ozone- they can linger and harm the livestock.

We used to run a sidestream loop up to 650-700mV for disinfection and water polishing. This was mixed back in the main flow, degassed then fed to the tanks.

There is a dosage rate that is optimal for skimming, but I dont remember it, sorry. I do have it in my notes from a conference years ago (buried in a box somewhere in the garage). I think it was from Andy Aiken at the Nat'l aquarium in Baltimore. It was an AZA conference.

I'll see if I can find more info..

OK, I understand that. But what I'm asking is, are some skimmers better at using X amount of ozone to achieve the desired ORP? Also, would you consider it like a sidestream if the ozone/skimmer setup is running in a very low flow sump system?

[H20ENG]

The skimmers that are very efiicient now (air drawn per pump watt) would do the best. Not sure any other way to tell.

Technically, your right it is a sidestream, but I wouldnt run the ORP up past 400. Too small a system:)

[SDguy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11102734#post11102734 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by H20ENG
The skimmers that are very efiicient now (air drawn per pump watt) would do the best. Not sure any other way to tell.

Technically, your right it is a sidestream, but I wouldnt run the ORP up past 400. Too small a system:)

Agreed, not sure there is another way to tell...I was just thinking about the diffrences between ozone reactors < NW skimmers < becketts with respect to turbulence/bubbles/etc.

Actually I keep my probe in my tank's overflow, so my sump may be higher than 400 (probably), but the tank never is. Would this be an issue?

[H20ENG]

No, unless your tank had a very slow overflow rate and you dosed heavily.

A true reactor would have the gas and water pressurized, and this helps them combine. Our large ozone reactors were 1.5" mazzei injectors feeding ozone into 400gallon FRP vessels. Contact time was about 2 minutes.

A skimmer injector is just as good.

[SDguy]

I'll double check to see what my sump ORP is compared to my tank ORP tonight... Thanks for the info.

[H20ENG]

Found some great info! Andy Aiken has been doing this research for years and is THE go to guy in the public aquarium fractionation world.
He says 0.01-0.03mg/L ozone dosage, which is very small. The problem arises when trying to measure what we have in our systems. ORP is not a direct reading of ozone, so we'd need an ozone test kit.

Here is the file I got it from:
http://www.aqualitysymposium.org/ppts/physicalphysiocemprocesses/AIKEN%20useof%20foam%20fractiona.ppt

And here is a boatload of awesome info by some of the most trusted names out there. Keep this one bookmarked:) :
http://www.aqualitysymposium.org/abstracts.php

[SDguy]

Thanks for the fantastic info. I'm still going through the second link.

But in the first, I didn't see...that 0.01-0.03mg/L is what, per minute, hour?

[H20ENG]

That would be the ozone concentration in the skimmers water. You would have to dose til you were able to achieve and hold that residual.

[SDguy]

LOL, I though that was weird per Liter of tank water :D

[H20ENG]

Heres another great bunch of articles:
www.aalso.org

[H20ENG]

I'll try to find a link to Drum and Croaker magazine, a yearly magazine put out by public aquarists. I know its hosted through the Columbus zoo website...

Not sure why some of this info never trickles down but damn its great stuff:)

[Gary Majchrzak]

some great info here. Thanks for sharing those links.

[SDguy]

Still reading through them (well, not from last night, I did actually sleep :D ). Thanks O3 sniffer!

[kokob007]

BrokeColoReefer where can i get that piece that the ozone hooks up to on the beckett?

Thanks,
Greg

[SDguy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11118727#post11118727 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kokob007
BrokeColoReefer where can i get that piece that the ozone hooks up to on the beckett?

Thanks,
Greg

You can get it directly from MRC, or just make it yourself. It's just a T with 1/4 FNPT on each hole, and a JG fitting.

[pwhitby]

I was wondering if ozone has issues with acrylic failing? I have never used it, but have been curious ?

Paul.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Ozone can degrade acrylic, but not very fast. One of the best ozone reactors on the market is made of acrylic (Marine Technical Concepts (MTC) PRO240D)

In this article:

Ozone and the Reef Aquarium, Part 2: Equipment and Safety
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-04/rhf/index.php

I have a section on suitable and unsuitable materials for ozone exposure:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-04/rhf/index.php#13