What would you buy and why ?

[RichSea7]

I'm finally getting equipment for my AGA 155 bowfront ( oldstyle dual overflow - Not the newer Megaflow - SO I know I may need to drill a few extra holes in the overflows to up the flow rate.....)-----
I plan to build this tank as a Tonga outer-reef biotope..... and will use dual refugium style sumps ( about 30 gallons total extra volume ).

Keeping with the idea of NOT breaking the bank to buy equipement, what Pumps ( Yep, I'll use two pumps and cross the returns ) would you more experienced folk recommend. ( Low energy loss to heat, low(er) noise levels, and low power consumption are all goals here. )---

Also what wavemaker would you recommend for the main tank. (Low heat transfer is a plus ). Getting that back and forth sway without shooting fish into the glass on the other side of the tank, or creating rockfalls would also be a plus.....:lol:

My goal is to spend a Moderate amount of money.... ( not the cheapest, but also not the most expensive equipment ) and get good performance and durability.... An integrated wavemaking approach ( such as squids on the returns ) along with another wavemaker along the back center of the tank is one possibility I have been considering.....

I'm not worried about lighting just yet, as I want to get the sump/water motion equipment list decided first. There are a lot of opinions here and on other boards, and my goal is to get enough info so that I can make the "right" purchase for my tank and what I am trying to achieve the 1st time......

Thankyou in advance for your input.

[t11t5]

where you from?
How soon do you want things?

[RichSea7]

I live in Ohio.....

I want to get my main pumps first.....

Then some wavemaking equipment.....

I'm looking for random and chaotic water flow, but some back and forth sway would be nice.....

[afelder]

can't go wrong with the ehiem pumps they just keep on running I know people with 10+ years on theirs

[SDguy]

Are you looking for external or submersible pumps? Are these for return pumps? What GPH are you looking for?

You can go with a Reeflo pump and an oceansmotions on a closed loop system to give random/back and forth flow. Or internal controllable power heads.

I'd also look into threading all your live rock onto acrylic rods or some other sort of "backbone" system. I'll never just stack rock and hope for the best again :)

[cnaegler]

I agree with SDguy. I'm currently in the process of setting up my new Oceanic 180 bowfront and i've tried to research as much as i could. I've noticed that alot of the TOTM's use the Sequence Reeflo dart pump with an oceanmotions 4-way for closed loop, so that's what i'll be using. It's an external pump and it's rated at 3600gph but with a six foot head it cuts it back to around 2500gph. I personally like the mag drive pumps and SCWD's for returns because i've had a mag 7 with a SCWD for over two years on my 55 with not even a whimper but, i can't say if they're the most efficient or cool running pumps, but I'm sure there are more qualified individuals here that could tell you more about the pros and cons of diffrent submersible pumps. I just like Mag drives because they've been reliable for me. I'll be using 3 SCWDs with a mag 18 on the 180 for the returns to maximize flow variations. But also keep in mind that i plan on an all SPS tank so these turnover numbers may noy be what you're looking for. IMO, If flow numbers is what your looking for go for quality in your closed loop and maybe "skimp" a little on your return pump.

[cnaegler]

heres a link to the Sequence dart pump, if you'd like.

http://www.aquacave.com/detail.aspx?ID=525

[SDguy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11113535#post11113535 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by cnaegler
It's an external pump and it's rated at 3600gph but with a six foot head it cuts it back to around 2500gph.

On a classic closed loop which is plumbed directly through the wall of the tank, there is no head loss from height, only from friction from pipes and elbows and such.

[cnaegler]

Yeah, sorry about that! My tank is NOT drilled so i have to plumb my closed loop up 5 or 6 feet and over the back. If yours is drilled, RichSea7, then you'll have to take that into consideration when considering what GPH pump to choose. Thanks SDguy for clarifying that!

[RichSea7]

Thanks guys....It's one of the older AGA 155 Bows with Predrills (dual overflows) .

I'm not sure if I want to go submersible, or drill holes for closed loop in the acryllic refugium sumps....

Even with some modifications, I believe that 750 GPH is the max flow rate per overflow with the older AGA predrills..... So that's about 1500 GPH total if the system is pushed......

Remember I'll need 2 return pumps with the set-up I plan, so I want avoid buying significantly more pump than I need.... (especially as I understand that Mud refugiums tend to want slower flow than "traditional " sumps. )......

BTW, What do you guys think about Quiet One Pumps ?

Would a Squid on each return and maybe a set-up with a Vortec wavemaker behind the PVC bracking and LR , produce enough of a pretty random and Chaotic flow ?


I'm wanting to have a kind of "channel" between two Rock groupings that runs (front to back, with a bit of curve built in ) down the center of the tank..... I'll also build a few caves and such.... What I want is a few select SPS on the top of the Rock groupings ( Near the top of the tank ) and maybe a Frogspawn near the overflow ( closer to the bottom of the tank ) on one side..... Possibly a few plate or other corals w/ lower light requirements near the middle of the tank.....

My goal is to have a lot of room ( and current) for my fish to swim in and lots of hiding places. I may look at some lower light corals or gorgians ( Sp ? ) as I get more experience.....

I want to use "biology" more than Technology with this set-up, however, water motion is where the most "tech" will likely be needed with this set-up.... I want to keep heat down, as this biotope mimics a bit cooler environment than the typical reef tank.....

Anyhow, thanks for the input... you guys have already gave me a lot to think about....It sounds like sqwids on the returns may be a good idea.....

Any other thoughts ?

[SDguy]

I think there is a little confusion. When we talk about closed loops, we are simply talking about a pump plumbed directly into the main display tank. Water simply is sucked out of the tank, and pumped back in. This does not involve the fuges, sumps, or any other "open" system.

So, most people run very little flow actually through their sump and fuge. The majority of heir flow comes from internal pumps like vortech/tunze/etc or aCL.

Example: I run about 500gph through my sump. I run about 5500gph through a closed loop. I plan to add a vortech in addition :D

[RichSea7]

Thanks SD..... So I should look maybe at a pair of Votechs w/ the controller for closed loop and then aim for at least 500 GPH per overflow from the open loop ?

[SDguy]

500gph per overflow sounds reasonable, assuming your sump can deal with 1000gph running through it (should be fine).

Vortechs would be considered internal powerhead type pumps. A closed loop uses a large, external pump which is plumbed directly to, but outside, of the tank.

[RichSea7]

Thanks Peter.... Some of the Tech terms get confusing, as I'm really more interested in the Biology stuff.

BTW - your tank looks Awesome !

I especially like that you have a lot of corals with high florecence ---- Something that might work for the Biotope I want to mimic, as I will have a more "blue" cast to my overall lighting then a lot of tanks do.

I'm figuring on getting all my water flow stuff ( and basic Aquascaping ) picked out first, then figure out my lighting....Hopefully there may be more LED options or better MH options in terms of lower heat output coming out in the next year.....

[customcolor]

click on my red house for my build of my 125 for some more ideas if you would like. i only use my return and a closed loop for a good turnover. i have no heat isues neather with my halides running with no fans or chiller.

[SDguy]

Thanks, you can see my tank build here:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=756593&perpage=25&pagenumber=1

[RichSea7]

Custom Color---- I really like your tank..... I especially like the pond foam idea to aid in the Aquascaping, both to make the overflows stand out less, and to aquascape (part) of the back glass. I was thinking about doing something similar, although I'm not sure if I ran Vortechs off the back glass if the vibration would eventually cause the pond foam attacked there to come loose...... Also, If I ran Vortechs, I would have to leave a good portion of the back glass "clean" or without any pond foam..... Still, Pond foam covering part of the overflows and back glass would look cool, and provide a better illusion of the Biotope I want to Mimic.....

I'm also not sure if the back glass could be painted on the outside and still work with the vortechs ?

Peter.... Thanks for the link.....

I really like the Gorgians and what appear to be seafans you have..... I understand they were hitchhikers from your LR....

It's very cool though, and I'd love to have a bunch of Gorgians near the bottom of my tank, as I want to simulate a bit deeper reef environment that would look more natural for the Needlenose Hawkfish...... ( Yep, I want to keep them along with a pair of Bluejaw triggers and maybe a trio of 6 line wrasses - All are out reef inhabitants in Tonga )- I want to stick to my Biotope as much as possible....except for the Euphyillid...... I just have always wanted a Flourencent Euphyilla species coral...... ( Maybe I would say it was an "invader" from the seagrass zone....lol )

Anyhow, I appreciate the links, as once my son and daughter in law move out this spring, I can use your tank build info. to help me with my hood and plumbing design. Custom Color's hood build shots were real helpful..... I also really like how Peter got so much equipment underneath his tank.....

It looks like good planning is the key....

[SDguy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11119421#post11119421 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RichSea7
I also really like how Peter got so much equipment underneath his tank.....

It looks like good planning is the key....

Thanks, yes 1.5 years of planning before adding water. Short of a crowbar and some vaseline, I can't fit one more piece of equipment under there :eek2: :eek2:

BTW, the gorgs were purchased. They are not hitchers. They are all photosynthetic species though, so frequent feedings are not required, but good lighting is.

hth

[RichSea7]

Peter, How did you find your Gorgs and how do you know which ones are photosynthetic ?

[xtm]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11109891#post11109891 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RichSea7
Also what wavemaker would you recommend for the main tank. (Low heat transfer is a plus ). Getting that back and forth sway without shooting fish into the glass on the other side of the tank, or creating rockfalls would also be a plus.....:lol:

Tunze Wavebox my friend.... go to youtube and see for yourself. It's a little steep price-wise but you get what you pay for ;) By the time you're done setting up a wavemaker and 3-4 powerheads, you would have spent the same amount of money anyway... my 2 cents

[SDguy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11120802#post11120802 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RichSea7
Peter, How did you find your Gorgs and how do you know which ones are photosynthetic ?

The LFS's around here carry them from time to time. Generally speaking, gorgs with off white to brown polyps are photosynthetic. These often come in body colors like purple brown, yellowish, rust. (purple frilly, purple ribbon, orange spiny, etc.)

Brilliantly colored gorgs, especially those with pure white or brilliantly colored polyps are usually non-photosynthetic, and either must be fed often (red or yellow finger gorgs), or simply do not live in captivity (blueberry gorg).

hth

[customcolor]

the paint i dont think will hurt the vortecs cuz i dont think that the magnets rub on the glass and the thickness of the paint is not even thickenuff to make the magnets not work so if you paint you should have no worrys.
for the foam just as a wornning== that stuff really floats good== so make shure its on your back ground good or you can put it on some eggcrat that is shaped to the overflow alittle then foam away and sylicone it to your overflow.
glad you like my build. its alot easyer to show you the link to what i want to tell you instead of just saying it. never know what some one else might see :)

[RichSea7]

Peter, are there any photosynthetic Gorgs with Rust/Red bodys and white polyps ? ( I'm looking for ones that would be a good bodycolor match with the Needlenose hawkfish )

Custom... You stated that the pond foam tends to float....D

oes it make a good seal with the glass ( or the plastic of the overfow ) or is it the egg crate that it really seals to ? What if I had an eggcrate arch from the edge of each overflow, with the arch legs being glued to the egg crate put on the bottom of the tank to stabilize my rockwork ( and more evenly spread the weight of the rock along the tank bottom ) ? If this the egg crate arch was glued to the eggcrate below ( held down by the weight of the LR ), then would this stabilize the pond foam structure enough to hold it in place, even with some hefty wave action in the tank ?

[customcolor]

i wouldnt glue the eggcrate unles your using like weld on 40 to suport the rock without giving out. you could use zip ties (zip strips) to help hold it too.
pond foam: i have seen some one use foam attached to the bottom of a tank and rock and didnt have enough rock and the next day it all was floating with the coral on top of it :( foam sticking to the glass is touchy. i had to use some silicone after it was cured cuz it was pulling away from my overflow. so you may need to do the same if you dont want to use egg crate for a frame for the foam to go through and grab.
to answer your other question about the arch and foam i think if its glued or held togeather well it would work fine with enough rock.