Phosphate rmovers... Which one?

[richofoz]

I've been reading a bit about phosphate removers and it seems alot of people on RC are using phosban....

I can't get it locally so I was wondering what the difference is between it and and say, seachem phosgaurd?

I understand that some are aluminum based and others iron based could someone please explain how the different products can effect my system?

Thanks heaps, Rich.

[Mavrk]

I think any of them are fine. Some may be a little better, but not enough to warrant going crazy over it. I do recommend a phosban reactor since this will make a big difference (I like the Two Little Fishies Phosban Reactor 150).

[demonsp]

It may be fine for control but its always best to solve the problem without adding any additive. Additives should always be last resort. And controlling phophate can be done without additives in many cases.

[McCrary]

Try Rowaphos from the Deltec site, it seems to be a good media.

[melev]

There are several GFO's on the market, by Tunze, Magnivore, Deltec, etc. What line of products can you buy in Melbourne?


<b>Mavrk</b> - that's a great avatar. I'd not seen that before.

[richofoz]

All of the lfs in driving distance carry seachem phosgaurd. I have purchased some as as temrorary measure which I'm going to put into a fluidised bed filter i have lying around.
I can order most things over the net, i was just wondering if one's way better than the other.
I have also read of phosban discoloring water not sure if it's true just wanted some feedback from those with experience...
And demonsp thankyou for your reply. I understand it's best to find the root of the problem and am endeavoring to do so. I just thought seeing i had the fluid bed filter there i could add something in the mean time to give my corals some relief...
I have only just got the test kit and discovered the levels are up at 0.5 ppm.
My ro water test as 0ppm and the nsw i use for water changes test the slightest tint of blue (salifert kit)
I feed rather sparingly and the only source of phos I can see is one relatively small piece of live rock, that i've never been able to rid of hair algae... Could a 500gm rock hold enough phos to raise levels that high?

Thanks again, Rich.

[demonsp]

Yes green hair can cause this. How big is your tank?

[richofoz]

it's about 400 litres including sump.
Am building a section in my sump for refugium. I hope that will help in the long run. I'm also going to take the rock out and put it in a bucket full of nsw with a heater and a power head. if it makes any difference i'll get rid of it...

[demonsp]

sorry wasnt tought metric in school. You know the gallons?

[melev]

Roughly 100g of water.

Since mostly all Ferric Oxides are the same, you can order most any of them and get good results. I've used ROWAphos the most out of all the brands.

It is important to set up your GFO reactor with very slow flow going through it. When you first start it up, let the water flow through it so the fines can move out of the reactor into a nearby bucket. It usually takes about 3 gallons of water, and it should take about 10 minutes of so for this water to collect - remember, sloooow flow.

Once that is done, you'll want to measure the output of the reactor for PO4. As long as you get a 0 reading, it is working correctly. All the water above the media should be clear, and the media should barely move. If the reading is higher than 0, slow the flow even more until it is 0. Once a week, open the valve for a second to send a puff of water through the media to prevent it from solidifying, then return the valve to the slow flow setting you had it at originally.

The media should be good for about a month or so.

[bhdmc]

I use ROWAphos and you can purchase it from WWW.THATPETPLACE.COM.

[Sea-nut]

So the slower the flow , the harder the reactor is working , is that what you are saying melev ?

[richofoz]

Thats perfect as I have a small (about 100gph) pump spare I'll hook it up end test the results.
Thanks for everyones input, Rich

[silvers]

All GFO comes from the same place go to Two Part Solution(RC sponsor) They sell bulk GFO very cheap and the also will tell you that all GFO comes from the same place in Germany.

[Jeff-in-Akron]

The slow flow is about contact time the water has with the media. The more time in contact, the more phosphates get removed. Also, high flow makes the media particles grind against one another and little particles can go back into the tank.

I run two in series- one with phosphate sponge (alumina based this go around) and one with carbon. I am thinking of adding purigen to the carbon one.

[Craig Lambert]

Here is a great article on GFO:

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-11/rhf/index.php

Also, I would pass on the aluminum based products:

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/july2003/chem.htm

[melev]

The aluminum-based phosphate removers are hard on leathers. I had several leathers close up and look wilted for several weeks after using one, so I don't recommend it usually.

GFO doesn't seem to have that problem with my leathers.

Sea-nut - it isn't necessarily that the reactor is working harder. If the water flows through the media more quickly, it doesn't have time to remove the phosphate. And since we want it out of our systems, it is best to have it set up so every drop of water going in ends up coming out phosphate-free.

And as Jeff-in-Akron pointed out, too much flow can grind the media down to dust. If dust worked better, they'd sell it as dust. Instead, the granules are tiny, but some vendors are even making pellet-sized media now. Warner Marine's PhosAr HC is one.

[richofoz]

Thanks for all your help guys!
I've been running the reactor for less than 24 hours with just eonugh flow to slowly move the particles...
I didn't have time to check the output, but when I looked this mornong all 750mls of phosgaurd had turned dark yellow so I guess it's working will test the output after work.
Thanks again!;)

[Craig Lambert]

Be sure to monitor your alkalinity because it may drop. It's also best to start with about 1/2 the recommended dose.

[Elorian]

On a side note, I seem to remember an article stating that GFO may cause pinched mantle in tridacnid clams- anyone know anything concrete about this?

[Macimage]

What about the liquid phosphate removers like the Blue Life one?

Thanks!
Joyce

[richofoz]

I'd wondered about the liquids too but the ones in my lfs' claim to be the greatest thing ever. blah blah blah... Nobody I know (or in the shop) had used them and they just sounded to good to be true to me.
I also worry about the fact that they don't actually "Remove" phos they just turn it in to something else or bond with it to make it precipitate?
Where as the solid mediums actually absorb the phos so it's actually being removed from the tank when the media is replaced.
Interested to hear from any one with experience using the liquids too...

[melev]

I've used many bottles of Phosbuster Pro in my tank over the past two years, and it will bring PO4 levels to 0 overnight.

It is a flocculant. It is best to boost up alkalinity 10 mins before dosing this product, and I prefer to use it at night when the fish are sleeping. Using a length of PVC pipe, I point the end at the intake of my return pump and pour the liquid into the PVC. It mixes as it pumps into the reef, and the water turns cloudy.

The next morning the water is clear and the phosphates are 0. I've never had any losses using it, and like it more than using GFO. Just my personal preference.

The stuff Blue Life sells (Lanthanum chloride) is dosed by the drop, and I've not tried it yet. However, I love the idea of dosing it one drop at a time in my skimmer, every 10 mins. Turning that water's PO4 to a solid would keep it trapped in the skimmer and collection cup, rather than have it do its thing in my reef. It would take longer dosing it every 10 mins, but I'd like to try it at some point.

[VaderWS6]

Anyone else use Phosbuster Pro? What are the negative effects of this liquid? Does it only remove phosphate?


<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11145399#post11145399 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by melev
I've used many bottles of Phosbuster Pro in my tank over the past two years, and it will bring PO4 levels to 0 overnight.

It is a flocculant. It is best to boost up alkalinity 10 mins before dosing this product, and I prefer to use it at night when the fish are sleeping. Using a length of PVC pipe, I point the end at the intake of my return pump and pour the liquid into the PVC. It mixes as it pumps into the reef, and the water turns cloudy.

The next morning the water is clear and the phosphates are 0. I've never had any losses using it, and like it more than using GFO. Just my personal preference.

The stuff Blue Life sells (Lanthanum chloride) is dosed by the drop, and I've not tried it yet. However, I love the idea of dosing it one drop at a time in my skimmer, every 10 mins. Turning that water's PO4 to a solid would keep it trapped in the skimmer and collection cup, rather than have it do its thing in my reef. It would take longer dosing it every 10 mins, but I'd like to try it at some point.

[richofoz]

I like the idea of dosing liquid into the skimmer Melev. If the Phosbuster is a flocculant does that mean it turns the phos into a solid that will fall out of the water column?. If so could you dose that very slowly into the skimmer inlet with a piece of air hose or something?

I used the Seachem phosban and after reading the article posted above have decided not to replace it with the same thing.
I don't have any leathers but I do have a few polyps I don't want to stress out...
Now the levels are down I can relax and I might get some of the phosbuster in case the levels go back up before I can find the source of the problem...