Tank stocking limits

[wizzbane15]

I have heard a lot of opinions on the stocking limits for tanks. I am wondering what templates, fomulas, rules of thumb, ect... everybody has used to determine when they stop buying livestock. I've listed my tank and what I have below and I would like to hear whether it seems ok, to much, not enough, ect. Cheers,

I have an All-glass 125 (72x18x24)

As for Livestock, here is an approx list:
-2 good size yellow tangs,
-3 blue hippo tangs,
-1 Tomini tang,
-1 blochii tang
-1 sailfin tang
-2 Clarkii clowns,
-1 singapore angel,
-1 purple firefish,
-2 firefish
-1 pink spotted watchman goby,
-1 blue spotted watchman
-1 diamond watchman,
-1 orange spotted watchman
-1 twin spot goby
-1 green banded goby (he lives in my refugium)
-1 solar wrasse
-1 six line wrasse
-2 bicolor chromis
-6 green chromis
-4 lyretail chromis
-1 mated pair coral banded shrimp
-2 cleaner shrimp
-2 harlequin stars
-1 giant green brittle star
-1 purple lobster
- a couple of pom pom crabs
-1 bubble coral, white
-1 green alveopora
-1 purple goniopora
-1 devils hand soft coral
-1 porites worm rock
-1 short tentical plate coral
-1 green frilly mushroom rock with 6 mushrooms
-1 prurple mushroom
-1 xenia in about 6 different pieces
-2 kenya tree
-1 colt coral
-1 gigantic purple condy
-1 white condy w/ purple tips
-atleast 50 blue leg hermits
-about 15-20 astrea snails
-who knows how many other assorted snails and such
-1 sand shifting cucumber the size of a hot dog bun

[awestruck]

I am assuming you're kidding, right?

[johnny1]

I am not sure there would be any room left for the water.

[yoboyjdizz]

Seems like alot but most are small fish. If your systems can keep up with it more power to you. I would take out the salfin tang, two blue tangs and another tang.

[wizzbane15]

I'm not kidding on the stock list. All of the tangs are about 2.5-3.5" in size on average. I have one yellow that is is 6".

A lot are smaller fish. The reason I asked is I was considering getting 2 or 3 more tangs, most likely a purple, and a powder blue. I'm not trying to horde fish or anything like that....

[crvz]

They may be that size now, but they won't remain so. Please do the fish a favor and stop adding to your tank. 34 fish, including 8 tangs, is well past the limits of a 125 gallon tank.

[joelr31]

This stocking list is for a 300 gallon tank. I suggest returning some of the tangs so that they are placed in a more appropiate (larger) home.

[wizzbane15]

the 125 is the intermediate tank for the 450 which will be finished summer 2008.

[yellowwatchmen]

I would not have that many gobies in there. Dont they Fight?

[pdfb55]

i think you could keep most of those with a few less tangs until summer. I would wait till you have the 450 to add all of those tangs

[JKDMan]

i have 2 tangs in a 210 gal and they fight i may have to seperate them
imo u have to many fish for the 450
and no more tangs ur gonna have a fight club on your hands as it is in a year or 2

[chrissreef]

picture in my opinion - that's a second measure of how i determine overstocking - you can't just go by stats/numbers.

example: a hair algae tank can have the best water tests out there... but something is obviously wrong =) (or right =P

[REEF-n-Chicago]

I want to see a pic of this :) !?!?

[robsee06]

Irresponsible reefkeeping...plain and simple.

[jcpatella]

That's the first thing I thought of - I'd like to see a pic too!

[Craig Lambert]

There was a TOTM (around 250G) with more fish than that, but they were mostly Anthias, and only a couple of tangs. The owner had a Deltec 902 skimmer. (A real beast), and a large phosban reactor. I would cut the number of Tangs. I would also think twice about the lobster. They grow to 6" and their tentacles grow to about 12". What skimmer are you planning to use?

[AquaReeferMan]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11143972#post11143972 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by robsee06
Irresponsible reefkeeping...plain and simple.

Yeah, I agree with that. I have 16 fish in my 125g. 3 are Tangs and I am already planning my 240g long upgrade. I cant believe you have all those fish cramped into a 125g. Very irresponsible.

[AquaReeferMan]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11143423#post11143423 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by wizzbane15
The reason I asked is I was considering getting 2 or 3 more tangs, most likely a purple, and a powder blue. I'm not trying to horde fish or anything like that....


You do realize fish grow right? You do realize once they feel cramped they are going to fight right? Can you even comprehend the bio-load of 10+ tangs in that small of a system? People like you make me shake my head.

[chrissreef]

basically most pple don't realize how big these fish get b/c they always see the ones in the store that are 4-7" - they don't realize they grow to 14-24". Even when they snorkel/scuba a 12" fish looks pretty small because of how big the ocean is. I thought a 200g tank was big, then I saw one next to the ocean =/ I also thought my 30lb dog was small in my parents house... so i brought her over to the apartment and nope, no way she's coming here!

[awestruck]

I will be setting up my 120g. in about a month and transferring my livestock from the 58g. Right now, in the 58g., I have a 2" cowfish, 1 osc. clown, and 1 pj cardinal. Now, my 120 is only 4' long and your 125 is 6', which undoubtedly is a considerable difference. However, it's only a 5 gallon water difference. I have been discussing getting 1 tang, just 1, for my 120 and it would be one of the smaller ones (yellow, sohal, purple etc.). In addition to 1 tang, 1 more clown, and probably 3 anthias, that is probably all I'm going to stock. And, I am unsure if I will be able to keep my cowfish (Juliet) when she's full grown because they really get large, just like tangs.

I guess it's not a matter of whether you can stock this many animals, because you already have, but do you really feel this many fish is good for the health and well being of all of your animals?

I am thrilled to be upgrading to a 120g. but in the scheme of things a 120 (or a 125) really isn't that large when you're talking big fish. I know it's difficult because sea creatures are beaufiful, but perhaps you would like to reconsider and thus keep only 1 or 2 tangs in addition to your smaller fish.

I apologize for my rude comment earlier, it was uncalled for.

[chrissreef]

and so you know... I once had
power blue tang
yellow mimmick tang
hippo/blue/regal tang
copper band butterfly
2 percula clowns
royal gramma

- all in a 30g - but don't tell anyone else that!!! They looked pretty and didn't fight at all... but they definitely weren't swimming "around".. I eventually gave them a new home =(

[AquaReeferMan]

Hows that Pro Clear Skimmer working for you?

[reefergeorge]

Awestruck. I don't think a sohal is considered a small tang, but I have never had one. Good luck with your new tank.

[jake32010]

thats a lot of stuff in there

[oysterxfast5]

Not to be rude, But hey dude trying living in a big box and never leave it. Thats what you are doing to those tangs. Maybe cut out some of them.

[awestruck]

Reefergeorge, you're right! :) A sohal is actually pretty big, I meant scopas.

[Marsfrogie]

Pics pics pics ;)

[erendon]

So how long have you had your fish in the tank for? I canlt beleave that your time bomb has not exploded yet. Can we see pics of this tank? What equipment are you running with it?

[Chef Reef]

i would love to see pics of this...

[wizzbane15]

Well, I got the type of responses I assumed. I can definately see how some may feel my tank is stocked irresponsibly, but the reason I inherited all of the tangs was that my LFS was having cash flow problems and they were unable to take care of a bunch of tangs that they had and they were given to me for free. The problem got worse and they ended up going out of business so now I permenently ended of with them... :( and :)

I already have already gotten rid of 2 tangs and I have recently convinced a friend of mine to set up a 100g tank I had sittin' empty at his house which will become an interim tang tank until my 450 is done.

[wizzbane15]

As for pics, I will get some up this weekend.

As for equip, here is what I run:

dual overflows run into a proclear 350 sump. Plumbed directly into the sump I then have a closed loop secondary filter system that runs from the sump and back that consists of 2 Precision Marine reverse flow filters, one is filled with Boyd's Chemi-pure, and it hold about 4-5 of the larger size ones, and TLF Phosban, the other is filled with Seachem Purigen (approx 700-800ml worth which accoring to Seachem should be enough to handle 500-600g worth of volume). From there, the next filter module in-line is a Lifeguard double chemical module that I fill with a mix of things, kinda a whatever I feel like mix of stuff. From there water goes to a Lifeguard fluidized bed filter and the output of that goes into a custom made mud refugium that is directly attached to my sump. Water flows throught the 'fuge and then drain back into sump right onto the intake for my skimmer. The skimmer output then goes directly into my retun area and is pumped back up to the tank via 2 Rio 2500's(no comments on the RIO pumps, they came with the setup).

Keep in mind that all of this is set up in my stand and I have a 125 tall so it is only 18" wide.

.......so even though I temporarily got stuck with a large number of fish, I have tried my best to make their environment the best I could considering the circumstances.

[wizzbane15]

To answer some of the questions posted directly:

-I have had these fish since March 2007.
-My ProClear skimmer is only O.K. It is a pain to get adjusted properly and it gets dirty pretty quickly. I always skim my tank fairly aggressively. I have a Turbo XL as a backup which I can add as external one in an emergency, but luckily it hasn't been needed.

[LobsterOfJustice]

I dont think it's as bad as others are making it out to sound. Other than the tangs, most of the fish are small. I do think it's too many tangs though. I would shoot for about three. I'm kind of surprised all the gobies are getting along too - I would have kept with two or three, but if they are all getting along I guess thats fine.

[LobsterOfJustice]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11145129#post11145129 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by oysterxfast5
Not to be rude, But hey dude trying living in a big box and never leave it. Thats what you are doing to those tangs. Maybe cut out some of them.

Oh, so you dont have a fish tank then?

[wizzbane15]

The gobies all seem to get along. They all have their own "turf".

All of my gobies I have had for a couple of years and I got them when they were all small. The pink spotted and blue spotted are about 4-5" inches now but very peaceful. I even catch them sharring the same burrow every once in a while, go figure?!?

[ScottL4619]

I'm not going to bash you for having all these fish. As long as they're healthy now and you plan to move them to a bigger tank soon, what can you say. However, I would, like everyone else, love to see a picture of a tank with all these fish in it. I have the same tank you do and have often wondered what it would look like stocked full of all kinds of fish.

[payyourtoll]

comments reserved until pics are up :)

[dendro982]

OOT:
I notices porites with worms in the list of livestock. Can you share the keeping practices (feeding, light, flow, alkalinity, anything special)? May be a new thread at invertebrates forum.

Thanks.
I have them too, would like to learn more.

[shabreeson]

I can't believe that u have a purple lobster with all that stuff. I thought it would kill fish like crazy. how long have you had it? any problems?

[awestruck]

I rescued Juliet knowing that a 120g. isn't very big for her, so I know how you feel about rescuing all of your fish. However, I believe you are still WAY overstocked, and if one of your fish gets sick, you're going to have some big, big problems.

[tkeracer619]

If the fish are all small, I doubt it would be a problem until mid summer. As they grow there is no way you will be able to keep your params in check and if you don't do a lot of water changes the rest of your livestock will surely suffer.

TBH thats the tang stocking list for my 360G.

[clekchau]

so, where are the pics or is this fake drama again?

[wizzbane15]

no fake drama, I promise that pics will be up by tonight.

[jcpatella]

I just came across this article this morning - I thought it might be applicable to this thread. Check out the pictures in the article - wizzbane15 has nothing on this guy!

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_4/V4I3/angelfish/Angelfish.htm

[shabreeson]

jcpatella I know you guys will hate me for saying this but, that tank looks awesome, I don't know how that guy balanced that aggression without loosing hundreds if not thousands on dead picked to death angel fish.

[chrissreef]

it looks good... but so do 15 bikini models (all close like) in the back of my truck =P

[jcpatella]

That's what I'm getting at - high amounts of fish in one tank CAN be done, but with proper planning and high maintenance. It's interesting to me to see people get all over someone who has plenty of fish without first asking their methods of quarantine, filtration, etc.

Still waiting on those pics, though...

[EyeCandy]

How does some of those things go together? Like the starfish and the harlequin shrimp? Or the lobster, usually a bad idea for a reef.

[shabreeson]

"no fake drama, I promise that pics will be up by tonight."

it is officially tomorrow... and yet there is a lack of pretty fishy

[MarkusII]

Hello,

This stocking list is for a 300 gallon tank
I even would not put all these tangs in a 300 gallon tank - the stock may just be right for the one planned for next year - no more fishes please (especially tangs)
They keep growing...

regards

Markus

[awestruck]

Last summer is was 101 degrees outside so my son and I went swimming at the community pool. There were so many people there that you could move about 5 feet only, or, you ran into someone else. Fortunately, we could get out of the water.

[Dustin1231]

When are we going to get to see the pics??

[reefman13]

When are we going to get to see the pics??

I guess a promise means nothing to this guy.....

[Dustin1231]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11159547#post11159547 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by reefman13
I guess a promise means nothing to this guy.....

Looks to me like this is just a bunch of B.S. Thats way too much for that small of a tank. I guess ill have to see it to belive it.

[clekchau]

i've seen hong kong style tanks like this many times so its not impossible

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a365/clekchau/f5.jpg

but thread starter still hasn't provided the photos he has promised so :dunno:

[docjones]

Wow, and I felt guilty wanting to put 3 tangs in my 125.

[awestruck]

Just because we can doesn't mean we should.

[wizzbane15]

Ok, I have been trying to upload pics, but this 50k max size limit is a problem. does anyone know a way around this? I took some pictures with my camera, but they are are substantially larger than 50k. I even tried setting my camera on its lowest settings but to no avail.

[wizzbane15]

I am unable to download any of the resizer programs because my computer is a work computer and will not allow me download programs to it. Does anyone have some internet only ideas that do not require a program download?

[Dustin1231]

wow.

[wizzbane15]

To throw some more info out, I saw a post asking about my secondary system for sick fish. I will admit that keeping all of mt fish healthy is paramount because a single sick fish can wreck havoc on my tank. If and when needed I have 3 ten gallon tanks in my garage that are ready to be used as QT tanks. Each has its own filter, heater, thermometer, UV, powerhead, and skimmer if needed. I did put some effort into having a QT system in place. Luckily, I have yet to need it.
As for diet, I feed a fairly varied diet. All of my food, whether it is frozen or flake, gets soaked in Boyd's Vita-chem, Kent's Garlic-x, and Seachem Reef Plus. I try to use a couple of different regular foods such and randomly mix them such as:
-cyclop-eeze flakes
-frozen cyclops
-frozen mysis and HUFA enriched brine shrimp
-frozen Rod's food (which is AWESOME!)
-Ocean Nutrition flake food(formula one, two, prime reef, and brine shrimp plus)

additonal foods I use, just not part of my standard regular feedings are:
-Ocean Nutrition frozen Prime Reef, Spirulina formula, Formula one, and Formula two.

I also use a full compliment of seaweed from TLF, including green, red, purple, and brown seaweeds.

[jcpatella]

Posting images using reef central's photo gallery is a bit limiting. The way most people (including myself) post pictures that will be larger than 50k is by using a site called www.photobucket.com. You can upload images to your [free] account on this site and copy the image location to this thread. If this is confusing, feel free to PM me.

[tkeracer619]

www.imageshack.us will resize the images for you. Copy the last link they provide you, click the insert image icon, paste the link in the field provided.

IMO those tanks look ugly when overstocked. Poor fish.

[mikey3165]

please dont do that even if ur keepin the other fish for another tank jsut buy them when you get the other tank

[burton14e7]

I'm more curious on what you're doing for the 450 since that will be their final home.

[Giga]

sigh just wait a little till your large tank is done(if it's not BS) then put more fish in there. To me it sounds like you have no idea what the heck your doing

[dendro982]

IfranView freeware image editing software should work without installation, .exe from diskette or a memory stick.
Image -> Resize ->Best fit desktop (or less than 600 pix max dimension). May adjust colors and sharp.
Photobusket.com for a full size, appearing in the thread, webshots.com - for less noticeable thumbnails, with full-size image on their website. Both are free.

[scotmc]

If you read RC, you already know your over stocked and a poor reefkeeper. Why ask for public opion for you to justify your decision? Because over stocking a tank has a name(hong kong style ) dosen't mean it's right.