PDA

View Full Version : how to incorporate


str8clownr
11/19/2007, 11:42 PM
ok so heres the deal,

i have a drilled tank with sump,
i have a asm g3 skimmer that is *as of now* not connected


I want to incorporate the skimmer into my tank somehow, but it is not a hang on back skimmer, and there is absolutely NO available space under the tank where the sump is.

what would be some ways to plumb it into my system, im looking for ANY ideas, i know lots of you guys out there each have their own way of doing it


my idea was to just get a small tank that the skimmer fit in, and somehow get some piping to the skimmer tank back to the main tank, or sump.


please guys, id love to get this hooked up as soon as possible.

thanks

Stoner Tang
11/20/2007, 12:07 AM
not much help here but i thought asm skimmers either were made for/or functioned much better in the sump?

schigara
11/20/2007, 12:14 AM
Is the G3 a recirculating model? This would be fairly easy. You could make a stand for the skimmer to sit on. You would feed the skimmer with the drain from the display. Instead of the drain going straight from the display to the sump, it would enter the skimmer first.

To keep the drain from putting to much gph to the skimmer, place a T in the drain before the skimmer with a gate valve that would exit to the sump. To control the water level in the skimmer, your skimmer output pipe will need a gate valve also that enters the sump as well.

So you would have a valve before and after the skimmer. The first valve controls the amount of flow and the after valve controls the level inside the skimmer.

Also, considering this would all depend on gravity, the input pipe of the skimmer would need to be below the level of the display tank drain and the output of the skimmer would need to be above the top of the sump.

Assuming it is a recirculating model skimmer, this should work. Is the inlet and outlet of the skimmer pump plumbed into the body of the skimmer?

mille239
11/20/2007, 09:13 AM
What size sump do you have? is there room for the skimmer to sit in the sump? As schigara said you can easily fabricate a stand for it to sit on if you have room available in the sump.

BrokeColoReefer
11/20/2007, 09:33 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11219451#post11219451 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by schigara
Is the G3 a recirculating model? This would be fairly easy. You could make a stand for the skimmer to sit on. You would feed the skimmer with the drain from the display. Instead of the drain going straight from the display to the sump, it would enter the skimmer first.

To keep the drain from putting to much gph to the skimmer, place a T in the drain before the skimmer with a gate valve that would exit to the sump. To control the water level in the skimmer, your skimmer output pipe will need a gate valve also that enters the sump as well.

So you would have a valve before and after the skimmer. The first valve controls the amount of flow and the after valve controls the level inside the skimmer.

Also, considering this would all depend on gravity, the input pipe of the skimmer would need to be below the level of the display tank drain and the output of the skimmer would need to be above the top of the sump.

Assuming it is a recirculating model skimmer, this should work. Is the inlet and outlet of the skimmer pump plumbed into the body of the skimmer?

The ASM's have to be run in a sump. They leak.

str8clownr
11/20/2007, 12:21 PM
there is absolutely no space in the sump NONE,
that is why I want another "sump" as in another small tank maybe a ten gallon, where the skimmer can sit, and then plumb into main tank

i was thinking it would be as easy as putting the skimmer in an empty tank, put a mag drive in said tank, and run mag drive back to display

i guess im over simplifying everything

BrokeColoReefer
11/20/2007, 12:27 PM
sure you can, as long as you have a gravity overflow coming from the skimmer tank and pumping back into the tank...

str8clownr
11/20/2007, 02:51 PM
ok guys so i went out today and bought a 10 gallon that JUST fits the skimmer (width wise) now, if i was going to leave this tank on the floor next to the tank stand, how do i plumb it all togther

coloreefer, you seem like you have a good idea about what you are talking about.

should i drill a bulkhead into the side of the 10 gallon? at what height of the 10g should i drill?

BrokeColoReefer
11/20/2007, 03:01 PM
hmmm, bulkhead? i invision a overflow coming from the display to the 10 gallon tank, with the G3 sitting in the tank and a return pump pumping back up to the display.. i could see putting a bulkhead in the 10 gallon tank if you want to run a external pump.. the other option would be overflow from main tank to 10 gallon tank, and the 10 gallon tank overflowing to the sump..

i could also see another return pump in your sump (like a mag2 or something) pumping up to the 10 gallon , and the 10 gallon have a overflow or bulkhead taking water back down to the sump. The G3 will apreciate constant water levels.

usmc121581
11/20/2007, 03:10 PM
Just an idea. Take a known size that will work. Have it drilled to fit a bulk head of your choice. Make a stand or put it above your sump, make a pvc connecrion from the drilled tank to the sump. Redirect the over flow(s) to the new tank with skimmer. When you start your system the water would then go from overflow to skimmer then to sump.

BrokeColoReefer
11/20/2007, 03:12 PM
a baffle in the 10 gallon tank would keep the water level constant, and then you could pump up tp the main tank ..

Gdevine
11/20/2007, 03:51 PM
Like you I have no room under the tank to run a skimmer in my fuge. I went with a 35g fuge and it just doesn't provide the needed space so I have it run outside the tank but the return can still reach the fuge on the overflow side. Here are some pics.

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p151/gdevine_photo/11260006.jpg

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p151/gdevine_photo/11260005.jpg

BrokeColoReefer
11/20/2007, 04:04 PM
the ASM cannot be run outside the tank. Its only a sump rated skimmer.

str8clownr
11/20/2007, 06:53 PM
BrokeColoReefer,
i believe a "sump" is just a tank under your display? right? so whether or not the tank is physically under the display or to the immediate right shouldn't matter right?

and i agree, if i add a baffle to maintain water level in the skimmer tank i shouldnt have a problem with it running dry correct? as long as the sump's level is fine. even though they would both be at about the same height...(floor and floor of stand, respectively)

Craig Lambert
11/20/2007, 06:58 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11223249#post11223249 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Gdevine
Like you I have no room under the tank to run a skimmer in my fuge. I went with a 35g fuge and it just doesn't provide the needed space so I have it run outside the tank but the return can still reach the fuge on the overflow side. Here are some pics.

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p151/gdevine_photo/11260006.jpg

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p151/gdevine_photo/11260005.jpg

Not to sound harsh, but you have a very dangerous setup in this picture..............

BrokeColoReefer
11/20/2007, 07:00 PM
if the skimmer sump is at the same level as the main sump, then i assume you are going to pump back up to the display correct? if thats the case, glue in a baffel, and make sure you restrict the overflow with a gate valve or somehting so you can tune the water level. What is unknown here is what level the sump will run at. You have two pumps, one pump as the main return, one pump as the skimmer return and one overflow split between two sumps. It gets complicated, if it where me, i would put restriction on the overflow going to the skimmer sump and also on the skimmer return pump to make sure you get the balance you need.

Ideally, you would have your skimmer sump above your main sump with the display tank overflow all going in your skimmer sump, and your skimmer sump overflowing into your main sump.

I think.

:)

str8clownr
11/20/2007, 08:40 PM
ha ya, this is proving to be a lot more complicated than i thought, you all have great advice, thanks

i think i will try the baffle method, and you are saying i should have a ball valve on the display-to-skimmersump overflow, AS WELL as a ball valve on the skimmersump return pump? which would pump water back into the display or my fuge, under my display?

BrokeColoReefer
11/20/2007, 09:59 PM
the trick is to have the pump going back out of the skimmer sump not be so powerfull that it sucks the area dry, and the overflow not being so much volume that it overflows the sump. That is the reason having the skimmer sump "in line" with the other systems (display -> skimmer sump -> main sump -> back to display) is a better option. The baffle in the sump will keep the water level constant, but the other side of the baffle where the pump hangs out cant run dry... another problem having the skimmer sump at the same level as the main sump is when you loose power, you have to account for that little 10 gallon sump not overflowing, just like your main sump. Another reason to have the skimmer sump above your main sump.

BrokeColoReefer
11/20/2007, 10:02 PM
ohh and yes, i would have both return and overflow adjustable with gate valves to make sure that you get the proper level in the sump. It might take a combination of both to get it just right. Make sure you use gate valves and not ball valves, they will let you dial it in alot closer. You dont want to much water going in, and you dont want to much going out. So you will have to mechanically balance it.

str8clownr
11/20/2007, 10:22 PM
ok im getting a MUCH clearer and better idea now, thanks

BrokeColoReefer
11/20/2007, 10:38 PM
no problem, glad i could help. good luck with your project, post the finished product with photos :)

str8clownr
11/21/2007, 08:24 PM
ok well after some more serious consideration, i've decided to go in another direction.

i think im going to Tee off the drain from the display, and put a gate or ball valve, (not sure which yet) to the line running to my skimmer tank, while leaving the other line from the drain to my sump/fuge unregulated.

the skimmer tank will then have a mag2 or 3 returning to the beginning of my fuge,

so that way, there is only one return going back into the main tank

this also removes the need to drill the 10gallon skimmer tank as well as use baffles

OR should i still put a baffle in the skimmer tank?

mille239
11/23/2007, 08:40 AM
You will still need to drill the 10 gallon tank as well I believe. The problem is you will not be able to balance the flow from the Tee'd off portion to the Mag pump in the skimmer tank. Either the pump will eventually drain the skimmer tank (i.e. pumping more out than the drain is bringing in) or the skimmer tank will overflow (i.e. the drain is bringing more water in than the pump is pumping out to the sump. No matter how hard you try with valves to reach an equilibrium it will not truly ever match up, and one of the two above scenarios WILL eventually occur. here is my suggestion:
(don't mind the crudeness of the drawing)

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d166/mille239/sump-2.jpg

As you can see, this will prevent the skimmer tank from overflowing, eliminate the need for an additional pump, AND allow you to regulate the flow going to the skimmer tank all in one.

mille239
11/23/2007, 08:48 AM
Actually now that I think about it, a better way to configure the drain in the above diagram would be to do it more like this:

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d166/mille239/sump2.jpg

That way you know you will have enough flow going to the skimmer, and you can always use the valve to decrease it if necessary.

davelin315
11/23/2007, 09:18 AM
Don't run it out of sump. The ASMs don't have good seals and the o-rings are not sized appropriately in my experience. I have a G6 which leaks from the seals where the dome connects and it also leaks from the uni-seals. It's not a good candidate to run out of sump.

The design of an extra tank seems to be one that would work, but don't forget that you're also taking the splashing out of the sump now with how messy these pumps are. You'll need to do the gate valve modification on yours or the way the water returns to the sump is it simply cascades out of the tube... big time mess...

Last, you'll want to have access to your skimmer, so a tank behind a tank may not give you the access you want. The picture above by Gdevine shows a neat set up, but there's a ton of algae growth inside the body of the skimmer and it doesn't look like there's a whole lot of room to get in there to clean inside it...

Take it from someone who used to overcomplicate things (OK, well I still do...), this seems like a recipe for disaster. Multiple sumps with different feeds... too much margin for error. What if your tank flow doesn't go through the T correctly and your skimmer starts to overflow out the top? My G6 "blows its top" if it gets messed up and the whole collection chamber gets knocked off when it gets full...