Walk me through this (chemiclean)

[unbreakable]

okay, so this tank (28g) was originally bought from someone else. Since the tank cracked i had to transfer everything over to a new tank.

the sandbed is at around 5" or so and he said it was around 40lbs of lr, which i dont think it is, probably lot less. anyways, ever since i set it up ive been having issues with cyano on the sandbed. i purchased an ro/di unit a couple months back hoping it would solve it but it didnt. i bought chaeto hoping it would absorb anything else in the tank, and recently i purchased two 6025s and modded them. there was very weak flow before

i want to get rid of this stuff once and for all, im sick of it.

Been with my for about 8months now, probably 3months with previous person
Ammonia: 0
Nitrites: 0
Nitrates: 0
SG: 1.025-1.026
Temp: 78-82
Alk: 9-10dKH (API)
Calcium: 475ppm (still trying to lower it-Elos calcium kit)
3 Fish: 1 yellow tail blue damsel, 1 YWG, 1 royal Gramma
I feed every other day

I bought some chemiclean to see if it would work, but first i dont know how many gallons i have exactly in the tank. I estimated 15g since i use that when i add Alk to the tank. So if one scoop does 10g (chemiclean), i shouldnt add anymore, right? Also, it says to make sure to oxygenate the water by adding an airstone, how many airstones do i need?

[unbreakable]

Oh yeah, Phosphates shows at 0 but thats with an API test kit. Even when i ran a skimmer it was there. im setting up a refugium and hoping to look into a an ASM g mini skimmer in the next month to help out

[bertoni]

The Chemi-Clean is unlikely to solve the problem. It's usually just a temporary bandage. I suspect the problem is lack of nutrient export, or perhaps the sand contains a lot of organic debris. Personally, I'd check the feeding amount and wait for the skimmer.

I wouldn't use an airstone for aeration. A few powerheads should be fine. The airstones are too messy.

[unbreakable]

im going to go ahead and wait until i get that asm skimmer for the sump. i just kept hearing people say over and over how the product(s) they tried removed their cyano completely and hasnt returned back after months of doing it and just annoyed that i still see it around the tank

[cleanup.man]

FWIW ... I used chemi-clean on a 54G with 2 air stones and 3 maxijet 1200's on a red sea wavemaker (or maybe it was 2 stand-alone tunze 6045s ... can't remember which) to get rid of my cyano.

About 4 days after application, I found my yellow tang and flame angel (the two biggest fish in my tank) gasping and was unable to save them (they looked ok the first 3 days). I think the chemi-clean / cyano reaction (?) consumed too much oxygen ... the smaller fish were OK.

At the end, my cyano was gone (with two of my fishes), but then came the GHA, which I never had before. Perhaps the phosphates (probably absorbed into the LR and sandbed long ago) that were previously consumed by the cyano was now fueling the GHA ... that was another battle.

[unbreakable]

thats another reason i wasnt sure about using it, but people kept telling me that as long as you dose the proper amount or a little less than i should be okay

[knowcrap]

bertonit is more right IMO in that using the Boyd's ChemiClean will provide a temporary solution but you should work on finding the root cause and fixing that problem. If I am not mistaken phosphates are the cause of cyano.

Personally, I had the same issue on my 180 for a while...never a major ouotbreak but a constant, nagging thin layer of cyano on my (shallow) sand bed. I tried everything, including the Boyd's, but in the end a skimmer upgrade and a refugium were the two things that resoved this for good (to date) for me.

[melev]

Let me throw my opposing experience into this thread, just to muddy the waters a bit.

I've had excellent results using Chemi-Clean over the years. Is it a bandage or is it a solution? For me, it is something that I need to use on occasion. I feed heavily, and always have. I feel fat thick fish are healthier than those that are on a diet. And due to a lack of knowing how to use my test kit, nitrates were around 60ppm for a long time. (I learned what I was doing wrong at MACNA)

So I chose to use a product to reduce nitrates gradually over 60 days, and when I was done NO3 was 2ppm. However, for the past 4 weeks, even with PO4 at 0 - .03 for the entire time, cyano bloomed on the sand in thick mats. I siphoned it out, twice. It isn't a flow issue in my tank. Two nights ago, I dosed my tank with a full jar of Chemi-Clean (treats 300g) and today I have beautiful white sand again. None of my livestock has ever been affected by this product, which I know I have used at least - hmmmm - 10 times in the past 4 years.

When dosing, I turn off the skimmer for the duration. It would be good to turn off any other media (I run these in reactors) such as phosphate removers and carbon. It is recommended that you add an airstone to the tank to keep up oxygen levels, but due to the water volume, my sump, and the flow in my tank, I don't have that problem. As long as the surface of the water has a really good ripple to it, gas exchange should be happening.

After 48 to 72 hours, do a decent-sized water change. 25% would be best. Fire up the skimmer, and be around to deal with the collection cup overflowing repeatedly for the next few hours. Just toss it out, toss it out, toss it out. You can always add more saltwater to replenish if it becomes necessary. Turn on GFO and Carbon reactors again. The next day your tank will be crystal clear again and everything will look great.


Keep in mind, there are several things we do to try to avoid 'medicinal' solutions, such as a thriving refugium full of macro algae growth, a monster skimmer, regular water changes, good random flow, stable water parameters and proper feedings, but in my experience I've found that it necessary to use this product as well. It is one of the only dosing products I even recommend.

There is one other method that is very cheap: Three Days of Darkness. I tried it out myself and it works. However, that depends on your livestock. If you have SPS corals, that might not be a good option for you.

[unbreakable]

i did pick some sps pieces just today since ive been wanting to get into sps forever. i tried the darkness thing before but it came back really fast. if it doesnt go away after the skimmer in the future then i think ill have to consider the chemiclean. i think so far the chaeto has done a good job of taking out the nitrates. they were 20 before, then 0 after a few months with chaeto. api says phosphates at 0 but maybe i need to get something that can detect them lower than 0

[Sk8r]

My advice would be to try the darkness once a month [3 day dark, windows shielded, 1 day actinic] for 3 months, while running a fuge and trying to better the chemistry. THEN if it hasn't worked, go for the Chemiclean, with a potent skimmer in play.

Remember this stuff is NOT algae [plant], but bacteria [animal]. Its death is like having a big fish die in your tank. That's one reason for skimming like crazy. Phosphate has less to do with it than good skimming does, imho.

Remember that when you use a bacteriocide like Chemiclean it's like dumping medication into your tank---a gentle one, compared to some, but it will not discriminate about killing a certain amount of your sand and rock bacteria, which will add to the dead-load that has to be skimmed out. It is an antibiotic you're using.

Now, all this said---I did use it, and got out alive. My tank survived, it worked, I got rid of thick sheets of the stuff overnight. But it wrecked my pod population and cost me megabucks supplementing for my mandarin, until I could get an effective fuge set up. Granted---I keep a mandy in a 54, which is pushing it, so I got the consequences---I didn't let my mandy suffer for it, however: she is fat and sassy on 300.00 worth of pods before I could get the darn fuge going, and THEN she learned to eat frozen mysis...go figure.

I do wish you luck: it's a stage of tank development, for one thing, but above all make sure no window-sunbeam is getting to your tank: that's guaranteed to set off an outbreak.

If you do use it, crossing fingers, but you've got some good advice in this thread, and it should be ok, with the above caveat.

HTH.

[cleanup.man]

hi melev, nietzsche,

melev, I'm glad to hear you've had very good experiences with chemi-clean. I would try using it again ... I think the loss of my fish was due to low oxygen levels (and my inexperience) rather than anything else.

nietzsche, I just wanted to share my experience with someone using it for the first time and make them aware that:
a) perhaps it is better to error with more airstones than too few
b) monitor your fish ... after 3 days I got lax and on the 4th day ... boom
c) perhaps it is a band-aid solution with nutrient export being the key issue ... after my cyano died off, GHA took its place; I ran out to get a phosban reactor, lightened the feeding, ...

[Percula9]

Instead of chemiclean try slime remover. Worked good for me. Do more water changes to lower the nutrient levels in your tank.