flake food and phosphates

[dexterphi]

I've been fighting a BAD algae problem for a month or two. I've been trying to figure out where the phosphates are coming from.

I just saw a article that said flake food has a lot of phosphates in it. I just realized I switched to formula one flake fish food a couple of weeks before my algae problems started..... I'm thinking it is not a coincidence.

The fish food container says "low phosphates", but it doesn't say "no phosphates".

Has anybody else had bad experiences with this type of food? I thought formula 1/2 foods were pretty safe.....

[bertoni]

Any nutritious food is going to have a lot of phosphate in it. Phosphate is a macronutrient. Overfeeding might cause problems, and sometimes live rock is contaminated with phosphate. What's the setup like? How much food is going into the tank?

[demonsp]

Size tank ? Water source? Useing for flow? Water readings ? Last water change and amount changed? Age of tank?How many fish?Amount of LR? Amount of sunstrate and type?

You could add most of this in your profile which really helps.

[Sk8r]

yep. They're good food, but if you have a phosphate problem, and no system uptaking it, it's better to use frozen either commercial or homemade, and even to rinse it in ro/di water before putting it into your tank. I do use Formula One, and have no hesitation recommending it for certain problem fish, but I also have a big refugium sopping up the phosphate it's putting in. Some fish [some mandarins that will eat dry food, and other fish like watchmen, that have trouble reaching other food] can solve a temporary eating problem with it. But most of these fish that will eat dry will also eat frozen mysis shrimp, which comes in big satisfying lumps; or cyclopeeze, which is very fine and helps feed corals as well.

[dexterphi]

here the latest specs... I updated my profile.
carbonate hardness: 100 ppm
PH 8.4
ammonia 0 ppm
nitrate 0 ppm
nitrite o ppm

the tank is 7 months old.

I don't have a refugium, but I'm modifying my sump into one. I installed a light yesterday and have chaeto coming in the mail.

I do 10 galln ro/di water changes every week. I changed the filters in my rodi just to make sure I didn't have a problem (no tds meter) and ran phosphate tests on the old and new water and exact same results. I skipped last weekends water changes because I was unsure of my ro/di water......

I have a yellow tang, yellow goby, clown, 2 green chromis, small sailfin tang, cleaner shrimp, at least 100 various snails (just bought a snail cleaner pack)


I have a koralia 3 (850 gph) and a power sweep (280 gph) running in the tank. I got the tank used and don't have the specs on the return pump from the sump......

formula 1/2 makes a pellet form... Should I switch to it?

[demonsp]

You need more flow. Also mix the fooc source up. I feed flake and pellet in the morning and no more then what they can eat in 1 or 2 min , skipping a day every 3 or 4 days rotating flake and pellet. Tangs and other omnivores need Nori that i give twice weekly and frozen at night with brine , marine cusine , cyclops , and what they can eat in 2 or 3 min , maybe missing 1 or 2 days monthly.

Over feeding always bad and only after time. Then with low flow the uneaten food , waste and other debris collect in low or no flow areas around rock work cause problems.

What type of snails?

[cloak]

I think the phosphates in the flake/frozen food you might feed is to minute to even think about. JMO. Don't overfeed.

[dexterphi]

My newest snail addition....

25 Nassarius Snails
25 Nerite Snails
25 Miniature Ceriths
15 Stocky Ceriths
10 Turbo/Astrea Snails

I also had atleast 15 astrae snails and some other random ones...

I don't think overfeeding is the problem. They eat it all within a couple of minutes...

Whats nori and where do you get it. I know the tangs needed to eat algae, but.....

How much more flow.... I thought 10x tank volume.... 75 gals = 750 gph.... The koralia makes 850 by itself....

[bertoni]

The amount of time the fish take to eat the food doesn't matter that much. Most of what goes in comes back out. More flow might help. 20x wouldn't be bad, although 10x is often enough.

I don't know anything about that skimmer, but it might not be sufficient.

[demonsp]

10 turbos will cause many problems.2 or 3 enough. They are disdructive to your reef. And way to many of the other snails.Yur adding an unwanted excess load .But i would think they would clean up the excess food. Not sure about algea and waste though. Like stock and coral add as you need. You need to cut back on the CUC and re examine your specific tank needs.

Nori is a type of dried seaweed that you attatch to a clip and they love and need it.

Flow. In high amounts is bad and in low amounts its worse MB. Your LR convert ammonia into harmless nitrogen and your SB converts nitrate into harmless nitrogen but cant do it right if flow is low. Low flow gives algea a better chance to advance. Low flow causes uneaten food,waste ,and other debris to collect in , on , around , and under rockwork and after time raises levels and makes it harder to eliminate the source.

Here. http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2007/1/aafeature/view


GL

[dexterphi]

I got the snail pack from reef scavenger because it was the first thing I tried to fix my algae problem and my hermit crabs had made a little snail cemetary in my tank. They have plenty of larger empty shells to choose from, I think they are just mean. They tried to eat my new snails too so I sent them to the basement (the sump). Most of the snails besides the turbos and nerite are VERY small..... I thought the snails were overkill as well, but they can't even make a DENT in my algae problem. Thats how bad it is.....

I'm going to get another redundant return pump for christmas it'll help my flow....

There is super long thread on this website about the skimmer. The consensus is that with a mesh mod it is sufficient...

I read this on reefkeeping.com: "Flake fish food is typically about 1% phosphorus (3% phosphate equivalent) by weight (and many products have such phosphorus data on their labels). Consequently, if five grams of flake food is added to a 100-gallon aquarium, there is the potential for the inorganic orthophosphate level to be raised by 0.4 ppm in that SINGLE FEEDING!"

[demonsp]

If this is the only food source and it overfead where it collect then after time it will casue problems.

Just not enough food for all them and the shell thing will always happen but not as much with time and the right amount.

[bertoni]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11283742#post11283742 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dexterphi
I read this on reefkeeping.com: "Flake fish food is typically about 1% phosphorus (3% phosphate equivalent) by weight
That's probably about the same as frozen food. Here's some data on ingredients:

http://www.springerlink.com/content/18q2556v42j1l417/