Design Assist Please

[chris023]

So i'm setting up a new 150 gallon and have drawn up a design idea that i think (hope) would work (attached). I have not fully calculated the distance of the plumbing, but i am guessing less than 5 feet on the return. I also do not know much about the unions, valves, etc. so these are just guesses on what i think i would need, i can probably eliminate some unions as i believe some values are unioned (not sure). I am also definately unsure if the 45 degree elbows will work like i hope. I am going with my return pump external, so any miscalculation could probably be handled by adjusting where the pump is placed. I wonder if i should just go with all flex PVC to avoid any problems (unless there are more concerning issues with using flex PVC?) I am looking at using a Mag 18 for the return based on the head loss calculate giving me about 800GPH with this unit based on the parameters of .75 inch pipe, 5' vertical, 3 45 degree elbows, 1 check valve, 1 ball valve, and 5 union couplings. I think that a 150 gallon with a 1.5 inch overflow should have around 900 GPH (sound about right?). I would appreciate any feedback. Thanks.

[Avi]

The attachment doesn't open for me when I try to open or save.

[chris023]

I wonder if the version of winzip are you using makes a diff? Seems to work fine for me. Not sure what the prob is.

[chris023]

Here is a .xls version. Maybe this will work better.

[beef3333]

The first thing that I saw was the Ball valve before the MAG 18. From what i have read here people say that it is better to just have a Valve on the Output side. Also not a huge plumber but not sure about the Ball valve on the Overflow drain. I would think as long as the 1.5" pipe can handle the Mag18 output you would never need to slow it down with a valve. Other then that it looks good.

I have been also looking at Sump/Fuge design and the only thing I have found is that some people put the return in the middle and then split the overflow so that you can slow down how much water you put through the Fuge and then the rest just goes to your sump side. Just a thought. Looks great and very nice illustration

[Avi]

That one opened without a problem.

chris...that's some setup, you're planning. Do I assume correctly that the two ".75 returns (which appear one on each side of your overflow in the rendering) will be going to the top of the tank and over the side despite the fact that they appear to be plumbed into bulkeads at the bottom of the tank? While I'm by no means very skilled in plumbing, I would think that if, on the other hand you do indeed intend to plumb them into bulkheads, you'd be taking an unreasonable risk by relying on a sole check valve to avoid all the water in your reef from from ever draining back into your sump - if your return pump is turned off or goes off for any reason - and consequently, flooding. I've never used a check valve myself, but I've read on a number of occasions in these forums here, that they aren't fool proof and could fail.

[AlexB650]

here are a few thoughts:
-skimmer area is too small...what kind of skimmer do you have in mind that would fit and be able to handle your system?
-place the refugium on the opposite end from the skimmer and use a "T" to control the flow to it (using two separate ball valves), and place the pump feed in the middle.
-don't rely on the check valve to keep your tank from overflowing into the sump--then to floor. they're notorious for failing. i'd get a bigger sump to handle the overflowing issue and to give you a larger skimmer area.
-mag 18 may be a little large--you didn't list the vertical run, so i don't know what the head loss will be, but it's probably still up there. check the calculator the have on the main page here. also, you may want two overflows if you're doing a pump that large...not sure though, perhaps someone else can chime in on that.
-oh, and i didn't notice this at first, but your baffles are backwards. the one in the middle should be elevated.

here's the design i used for my sump:

<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i269/alexb518/Aquarium/sump.jpg" border="0" alt="Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket"></a>
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[chris023]

Thanks so much for the input, you all have given me more to think about. Let me answer a few questions you all had.

Beef3333: the ball valves before the pump is in case i need to replace/repair the pump. I can remove it by shutting the eater supply on both sides. Not intended to slow the intake. The valve on the overflow is in case i need to stop overflow for any reason. Not sure what those reasons may be, but i'd rather have a way to di it if needed. Good suggestion about splitting the overflow to both sides of the refugium, will definately consider. Thanks.

Avi: The .75 return lines are being plumbed up through the overflow box and out the top through cutouts in the top of the overflow box. So if the return bulkhead fail, only water at the level of the top of the return lines would flood (again, which are near the top of the overflow). Sorry my diagram failed to illustrate that. Even if the check valve fails on the return line, i will hopefully have enough space in my sump to handle it. According to the calculator, i would only need about 12 gallons of empty space in my sump.

Alex650: I don't think the sump is to scale with regards to compartments, so i'm not actually sure yet how large it would be. I plan on putting in either a Aqua C or an ASM G series (again, not sure yet). I will definately consider larger sump to handle overflow. I guessed less than 5 feet of vertical (i did list it above, along with all other paramerter), and the calculater knocked the mag18 down to about 900GPH, but i agree that you maybe right that the mag18 is a bit overkill. I may even end up with flex PVC after the pump and valves on the return, so i can probably get away with maybe a mag12. Oh yeah, baffles are backwards, thanks. And i will be using my pump externally, so the sump will have room for redesign. Thanks.