Ati bubblemaster look alike hitting the market

[N-A-S-O]

Has anyone heard about these new skimmers? Are the sicce pumps any good?

http://www.marinesolutionsinc.com/catalog/index.php?manufacturers_id=28

[3.99AfterTaxes]

Same pumps as the ones found on the BM.

[GSMguy]

I think they look nicer than the ATI look how tall they are and the pump being under the skimmer helps keep the footprint small.


http://www.marinesolutionsinc.com/catalog/images/NW160Xtreme.jpg

[sjm817]

For comparison
http://www.reefgeek.com/reefgeek/7221/BM160_web.jpg

[USC-fan]

these skimmer are going to sell great if they stay at this price and there is not any flaws in the design. I can't wait for the first reviews.

[ReefWreak]

I'm waiting for the reviews too. I saw this last night and spent hours looking around on the net for this new series of octopus extreme or w/e it was. I'm excited. It might be time to replace my ER 8-2 if these things have a 10" chamber and are recirc for <$500. Gonna be sick. I can't wait.

[reef_doug]

I have the BM250 and don't really care for their "newer gate valve". I really like the output design of these Xtreme where I can deflect the output to the next chamber in my skimmer.

Tunze uses Sicci pumps in their 6000-6200 series streams. BM uses Sicci pumps with a meshwheel for their U.S. version skimmer, (maybe the exact same pump in these Extreme skimmers).

[stressed damsel]

cant wait for reviews. for the price this might be the next great skimmer out there.

[hahnmeister]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11294111#post11294111 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by N-A-S-O
Has anyone heard about these new skimmers? Are the sicce pumps any good?

http://www.marinesolutionsinc.com/catalog/index.php?manufacturers_id=28

Yes, we have been talking about them over in this thread for some time now....
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1250258&perpage=25&pagenumber=1

The body is based more on the BK deluxe (a good thing) than the ATI, with the Sicce pump. Not exactly quality, but bang for the buck... hard to beat.

[hahnmeister]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11296787#post11296787 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by reef_doug
I have the BM250 and don't really care for their "newer gate valve". I really like the output design of these Xtreme where I can deflect the output to the next chamber in my skimmer.

Tunze uses Sicci pumps in their 6000-6200 series streams. BM uses Sicci pumps with a meshwheel for their U.S. version skimmer, (maybe the exact same pump in these Extreme skimmers).

Im pretty sure ALL tunze pumps are Sicce made. The PSK 2500 that this skimmer uses is what ATI uses on the BM's, and what Tunze uses as the 'hydrofoamer' pump on its 'Master DOC' series of skimmers.

[nava405]

guess what? i think it'll work alot better than ATI since it doesn't have the small 6" tube inside the body...

[luke33]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11297205#post11297205 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by nava405
guess what? i think it'll work alot better than ATI since it doesn't have the small 6" tube inside the body...

Sure will. If you check out the coralvue extreme octo's, they are more similar to the ati with the tube inside teh tube type deal, which i think it a total waste of space. Aquariumspecialy has been selling these for a couple weeks now.

[sjm817]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11296787#post11296787 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by reef_doug
I have the BM250 and don't really care for their "newer gate valve". I really like the output design of these Xtreme where I can deflect the output to the next chamber in my skimmer.

I agree. The BM250 I have has a normal style output that I can direct wherever I want. The new design is a step backwards. The new ATB cone skimmers also have this design which is a shame.

[albfelix]

Just do a search on the For Sale Forum for ATI and look how many results you will see taking in considearation how long these skimmers have been on the market and do the judgement yourself.

just my 2 cents

[sfsuphysics]

Looking at the pictures of the above link it seems like none of them are recirculating skimmers. Unless I'm missing a place where there's a hole cut to pull into the pumps intake.

And it appears that only the 160 model has the underneath pump design.

[GSMguy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11299303#post11299303 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by albfelix
Just do a search on the For Sale Forum for ATI and look how many results you will see taking in considearation how long these skimmers have been on the market and do the judgement yourself.

just my 2 cents

can you repeat that in a way that is not a riddle?

[GSMguy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11299332#post11299332 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sfsuphysics
Looking at the pictures of the above link it seems like none of them are recirculating skimmers. Unless I'm missing a place where there's a hole cut to pull into the pumps intake.

And it appears that only the 160 model has the underneath pump design.

most of the sicce Mass produced skimmers are not RC the ATI are not RC the Tunze is not RC and neither are these

[sjm817]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11299303#post11299303 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by albfelix
Just do a search on the For Sale Forum for ATI and look how many results you will see taking in considearation how long these skimmers have been on the market and do the judgement yourself.

just my 2 cents
I searched and in the last 3 months I found 5. One of which the poster changed his mind and is keeping it.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1235770
Nothing wrong with this skimmer, it is the best I have ever owned. ...and then he cancelled the for sale post

You got this guy that had a 160 for sale and sold it 4 days.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1247757
I got an H&4 A150 external so I can use the space where my skimmer was as a refugium.
He also is selling a 200 for a friend..
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1247757

Here is another 200:
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1249687

Another 200:
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1230035
works great. just need a bigger skimmer
I dont see anything at all unusual. What is your point?

[GSMguy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11300142#post11300142 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sjm817
I searched and in the last 3 months I found 5. One of which the poster changed his mind and is keeping it.






with that info I can solve the riddle, ATI BM owners like their skimmers and do not get rid of them often.


What do i win

[Creetin]

Sjm i dont see it either, Looks like people just like to knock down ATI to prove that thier SWC is better.
Anywho good luck with your SWC's :)

[GSMguy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11300176#post11300176 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Creetin
Sjm i dont see it either, Looks like people just like to knock down ATI to prove that thier SWC is better.
Anywho good luck with your SWC's :)

what is a SWC?

[albfelix]

my point is that they are built cheap with cheap pumps.

[sjm817]

That's nice if you think that, but it makes no sense, has nothing to do with how well they skim or anything at all to do with the few units being sold, or owners satisfaction.

So, whats your point? Do you prefer the build quality of SWC? Do you like their pumps better?

[GSMguy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11300246#post11300246 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by albfelix
my point is that they are built cheap with cheap pumps.

many people love the pumps.... they are not overpriced if thats what your looking for.

as for built cheap, yep they are, luckily most people don't kick their skimmers around too much.

[luke33]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11300246#post11300246 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by albfelix
my point is that they are built cheap with cheap pumps.

So you are saying the pump's on the ati's are nice but the pump's on these SWC's are cheap.....Yea, that makes alot of sense! Since, you know, there the same exact pump :lol: And i've never seen an octo that was built cheap, there pretty darn sturdy. And like mentioned above, unless you like dropping it alot i wouldn't worry to much.

[Creetin]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11300189#post11300189 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by GSMguy
what is a SWC?

Single white chick?? I dunno i thought it was a skimmer brand. lOl

[hahnmeister]

Salt-Water Care
Salt-Water Connection
Southwest Customs
Sweet Wasabi Corn
So What Creetin
Small White C... Contraption!
Super Water Cleaner
Spills Water Constantly
Super Wonder Chinese
Streaking With Chinese
Something with China
Suppose We Care

[sfsuphysics]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11300176#post11300176 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Creetin
Sjm i dont see it either, Looks like people just like to knock down ATI to prove that thier SWC is better.

It has always happened, wasn't too long ago that if you didn't have a EuroReef then the skimmer you had was completely garbage (Unless you could pony up for an H&S or BubbleKing or something). Now apparently EuroReefs are the "garbage" to the next generation of skimmers.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to buy one of these newer skimmers, but I'm quite tired of the whole "you get what you pay for" speeches from others. Not to put down these skimmers in any way-shape-or form but EuroReef was "you get what you pay for", now those who are trading up to the bubblemasters from euro-reef are getting what they paid for :)

That being said, I'd buy one if I had the room in my sump for one, unfortunately my "knock-off" ASM G3 will have to do.

[hahnmeister]

Getting what you pay for isnt always true, not in a small volume, high margin market like this. These days, about 1/2 the cost of buying a skimmer from an EU company is in the shipping costs and exchange rates... then, because the importer has to make money as well, or rather the distributor, there is some more money. Then, the retailer.

The attraction behind being able to buy from a US maker that sells their own skimmers is growing these days. ORCA, Volcano... I think if the dollar keeps falling the way it has been, pretty soon these guys are going to be the ones to buy from. I suppose Euro-reef as well since they sell direct... and of course a slew of all the other US beckett makers that sell direct.

That is, as long as people who are buying can keep their jobs to support the hobby and afford a skimmer.

Still, you must admit, with the exception of the pumps, there is no reason why Shan from ORCA, or Spazz, couldnt build a Bubbleking at 1/2 the cost, or 1/4. And pretty soon, the pump will no longer be an obstacle even... Im making sure of that.

OF course BK, Fauna, ATI, etc... will continue to sell in the US because of the marketing that goes behind their products. But beware... I have now uncovered marketing 'lies & propaganda' that 4 of the major EU companies like to spread to further their own image. Actually, make that 5 with that BS 'why threadwheels arent good by Deltec' propaganda. Heck, one of the reasons I will most likely continue to buy from ATB is Anton's honesty... he tells the truth about his products, the good and where things can be improved (and then improves them). But other than that... some of what you might be paying for with some companies is for the 'image'.

[GuySmilie]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11300705#post11300705 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hahnmeister
.....some of what you might be paying for with some companies is for the 'image'.
Some of?!
Now there's an understatement if I ever heard one! :D
In my opinion it's more like half of.

[GSMguy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11300391#post11300391 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by luke33
So you are saying the pump's on the ati's are nice but the pump's on these SWC's are cheap.....Yea, that makes alot of sense! Since, you know, there the same exact pump :lol: And i've never seen an octo that was built cheap, there pretty darn sturdy. And like mentioned above, unless you like dropping it alot i wouldn't worry to much.

No it's the ATI that he thinks are sucky not the SWC, if I'm following the breadcrumbs back to the troll village correctly.:confused: :confused: :confused:

[luke33]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11301167#post11301167 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by GSMguy
No it's the ATI that he thinks are sucky not the SWC, if I'm following the breadcrumbs back to the troll village correctly.:confused: :confused: :confused:

:lol: :lol: :lol: Thats funny. The ATI's are excellent skimmers imo, the only thing i don't like is the extended bubble plate, its not needed and i think it waste's alot of space and takes alot away from the skimmer. Thats why i'm liking the octo's so much.

[sjm817]

The extended bubble plate is there for a reason. The ATIs flow a lot of H20 and move a lot of air and has a short body. The extended tube is to prevent microbubbles from exiting the skimmer. You could cut that tube down if you have an effective way to deal with skimmer microbubbles. That said, it doesn't seem to hurt performance. The skimmers work very well.

[GSMguy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11301214#post11301214 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by luke33
:lol: :lol: :lol: Thats funny. The ATI's are excellent skimmers imo, the only thing i don't like is the extended bubble plate, its not needed and i think it waste's alot of space and takes alot away from the skimmer. Thats why i'm liking the octo's so much.

i talked to Jeremy at PA about the tube and i see no reason not to dremel it right off.

[sjm817]

I could see taking it down some, but all of it? I can say for certain, my BM250 would send a ton of MB out the exit without it.

[luke33]

Well, here's my thoughts. I'm pushing 35-40scfh in my via aqua 388 body, 11"diameter to 9" diameter to a 4" neck. The air is basically milking out the top 1" of the 11" diameter and 9" of all the skimmer, its only 18" tall, has alot of the same characteristics of the ati but i'm using a 1300gph pump on it. It has zero probs with the flow, so why use a bubble plate with less than 800gph? Its not needed. Now the bm250 thats different as it s pushing nearly 90-100scfh.

[Mr James]

by GSMguy
...ATI BM owners like their skimmers and do not get rid of them often.

That would be me!! 6 years as a Beckett-man, I truly love my BM200 an plan for another 6 years with this brand/model. I don't know the BEST settings for it nor what an extended bubble plate is, but I really love it. I don't plan to go back to the Beckett nor do I plan to get a knock off.

[flyyyguy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11301411#post11301411 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by GSMguy
i talked to Jeremy at PA about the tube and i see no reason not to dremel it right off.

has anybody done this??? even partially???

if so, step up and talk about it........as a BM250 owner, ya got me curious

[mavgi]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11301411#post11301411 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by GSMguy
i talked to Jeremy at PA about the tube and i see no reason not to dremel it right off.

Tell to Jeremy to try it ....:D and after that... all the bubble will go out direct from the exhaust direct to the sump...

[GSMguy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11302576#post11302576 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mavgi
Tell to Jeremy to try it ....:D and after that... all the bubble will go out direct from the exhaust direct to the sump...

Ha he did not suggest it outright, but when we were talking it was at Macna and the convo was more about the fact that many people mod their skimmers if they dont like the riser tube inside it could be cut and would not be abnormal because people mod their skimmers all the time.

If i were to do it it would be with a 200 and i would start slow taking part of it off and going from there, luckily i don't have a BM that I'm unhappy with so i don't have to do this. :)

[GSMguy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11302321#post11302321 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Mr James
That would be me!! 6 years as a Beckett-man, I truly love my BM200 an plan for another 6 years with this brand/model. I don't know the BEST settings for it nor what an extended bubble plate is, but I really love it. I don't plan to go back to the Beckett nor do I plan to get a knock off.

nice Good that it worked out for you, i Remember you threatening to go back to Beckett if the ATI didnt please you.:D

[Klaus Jansen]

OF course BK, Fauna, ATI, etc... will continue to sell in the US because of the marketing that goes behind their products. But beware... I have now uncovered marketing 'lies & propaganda' that 4 of the major EU companies like to spread to further their own image.

@ Jon..

no respectable comment on RC...:confused:

[hahnmeister]

I never implied that you were one of the 4 Klaus... The only one I mentioned was Deltec.

The only reference I made to RE (BK) was that they will continue to sell because of the marketing that goes into their products. Im not being critical of that... thats just good salesmanship and marketing to inform the customer. When something costs more (than another item in the market), then the 'added value' of that product must be made known... which is what you do.

[reef / aholic]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11300705#post11300705 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hahnmeister
Still, you must admit, with the exception of the pumps, there is no reason why Shan from ORCA, or Spazz, couldnt build a Bubbleking at 1/2 the cost, or 1/4. And pretty soon, the pump will no longer be an obstacle even... Im making sure of that.

What about this?????

[ostrow]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11302576#post11302576 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mavgi
Tell to Jeremy to try it ....:D and after that... all the bubble will go out direct from the exhaust direct to the sump...

That's exactly what I thought when I read that! Funny.

Now, my skimmer is taller, so perhaps that's why no microbubbles. But at the size of the 250 ... yah, bubbles bubbles bubbles!!!

[hahnmeister]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11307269#post11307269 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RoBolton
What about this?????

What about it? It doesnt have anything to do with what Klaus asked about...

[GuySmilie]

I think he may be referring to the pump obstacle you're making sure of. That comment had me curious as well.

[JCTewks]

the Lagua pond pumps can be made to produce more air at the same watage as the RD pumps. There is a thread about it :)

[hahnmeister]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11309826#post11309826 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by GuySmilie
I think he may be referring to the pump obstacle you're making sure of. That comment had me curious as well.

The US needs to start making a quality pump. We dont have an eheim, Sicce, or Red Dragon built here in the US, let alone an Aquabee or Hydor. Therefore, we are at the mercy of the market. Being that The Euro is about 1.5x the $US right now, and some of these EU built pumps are pretty expensive to begin with... we are paying through the nose.

So we go with Chinese pumps... ouch. I havent seen one yet that runs quiet, smooth, cool, etc. That, and if the $US keeps falling, things arent going to look so good for Chinese imports either.

The only US made pump that seems to be even in the ballpark is the Dart.

So, thats why we need a US made skimmer pump that is quality. We can make something here for $250-300 that can do 4000lph with 85 watts, and run silent and cool like an eheim. Or 1500lph for 36 watts, or 2300lph for 50 watts, or 1000 lph for 25-30 watts. It is possible.

[JCTewks]

The big problem with the darts as skimmer pumps is their size!!! they also seem to put a lot of water out for the air they produce...it's easier to make a custom volute for a laguna too :D

[Klaus Jansen]

@Jon..
yes, it is possible. Bubble King Copys for 1/2 cost or 1/4 cost, when it come from China. DIY-Red Dragon Pumps, Copys from the Red Dragons... good for you, bad for Inventors in Europe...
You want a Red Dragon Copy, where come from USA ? Okay, Royal-Exclusive using expensive US-CNC-Machines (Hurco) So we want make the next Invest not in US-Technologie... we want buy a Hurco copy where come from China. = 1/2 Cost...

[lawboy888]

i have two 300 reef...what do you guys recommend as a best skimmer for these...a little ot but maybe i can get some ideas :)

[hahnmeister]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11310240#post11310240 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Klaus Jansen
@Jon..
yes, it is possible. Bubble King Copys for 1/2 cost or 1/4 cost, when it come from China. DIY-Red Dragon Pumps, Copys from the Red Dragons... good for you, bad for Inventors in Europe...
You want a Red Dragon Copy, where come from USA ? Okay, Royal-Exclusive using expensive US-CNC-Machines (Hurco) So we want make the next Invest not in US-Technologie... we want buy a Hurco copy where come from China. = 1/2 Cost...

Its not as if I blame you or any other mfg's in particular... I blame the falling $US. I just dont see an end in sight... I wouldnt be shocked if the $1 US = .50 Euro within a year or two... like the UK Pound.

And I dont mean 'poor copies' of BK skimmers exactly. I mean... look at what mfg's exist in the US... not alot. Mostly beckett 'black box' mfg's. The best we have might be the Euro-reef, and even they are considering going with Hailea pumps. Then there is the Dart Needlewheel... not exactly efficient or a 'gem' to some. Sure, there is Volcano, and ORCA... but these are small operations at the moment.

Almost all the 'better' skimmers on the market, needlewheel at least, come from the EU...
Tunze
BK
Deltec
H&S
ATI
Hydor (not that they export to US though)
ATB
Knop
Schuran
ELOS
Grotech
RATZ
ZC
Aquaconnect
Aqua Medic

It seems we like AquaC Remoras, ASM's and Coralifes in the US though...lol. The problem for US makers is pumps it seems... its hard to find a good pump that isnt a Red Dragon, Eheim, etc. GEO even quit making skimmers. Oh, wait... yeah, RK has started a consumer grade line. Ooooooo.

Buying crap from China isnt always the best idea either... sometimes its just not well engineered. These SWC models look better than the usual, but because they use Sicce pumps. The chinese dont seem to have a grasp on 'pond pumps = best skimmer pumps' yet.

[Roland Jacques]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11301411#post11301411 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by GSMguy
i talked to Jeremy at PA about the tube and i see no reason not to dremel it right off. <a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11301263#post11301263 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sjm817
The extended bubble plate is there for a reason. The ATIs flow a lot of H20 and move a lot of air and has a short body. The extended tube is to prevent microbubbles from exiting the skimmer. You could cut that tube down if you have an effective way to deal with skimmer microbubbles. That said, it doesn't seem to hurt performance. The skimmers work very well.
I think the extended tube over the BP has two other small fuctions which might help performance just a little.

1. flow path. It insure all through put water dose not take a "short cut" to the skimmer exit . Not a big deal ether way, but id rather have it than not, as long as it dose not create any extra turbulence in the neck.

(I was disappointed to find out that some Orca big Dart recirc skimmers have a good % of the throughput water going directly to the output without being skimmed or even seeing a bublbe at all. That's due to a bad path design .)

2. More concentration of Air/bubbles : water (interface) for a Just a little longer time. Once the mixture leaves the extended tube the water ratio goes up as the bubble continue up. Again not a big deal but...

[GuySmilie]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11309972#post11309972 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hahnmeister

.......So, thats why we need a US made skimmer pump that is quality.......It is possible.......

.......And pretty soon, the pump will no longer be an obstacle even... Im making sure of that.

:idea:
Which all begs the question,
is der hahnmeister entertaining ideas of fabricating/marketing such an animal, in the USA?

[GSMguy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11310413#post11310413 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Roland Jacques

(I was disappointed to find out that some Orca big Dart recirc skimmers have a good % of the throughput water going directly to the output without being skimmed or even seeing a bublbe at all. That's due to a bad path design .)



the ORCA Dart from Reeflo and the Dart needlewheel skimmer from ORCA are different designs i think you may have the two confused...

[Rwinfrey]

I spoke with euroreef today they do not plan on changing pumps.

:p :p :p In my opinion ATB ATB ATB:p :p :p just kidding

[JCTewks]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11316786#post11316786 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Rwinfrey
I spoke with euroreef today they do not plan on changing pumps.

:p :p :p In my opinion ATB ATB ATB:p :p :p just kidding

What??? I'm confused, what does this have to do with this thread???

[flyyyguy]

oops

[hahnmeister]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11316786#post11316786 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Rwinfrey
I spoke with euroreef today they do not plan on changing pumps.

:p :p :p In my opinion ATB ATB ATB:p :p :p just kidding

Yeah, it wasnt a 'for sure' but they were looking into the Hailea I know. Perhaps the response when they posted that told them enough... or, perhaps the falling dollar is preventing even the Chinese pumps from being as attractive either.

[Roland Jacques]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11310735#post11310735 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by GSMguy
the ORCA Dart from Reeflo and the Dart needlewheel skimmer from ORCA are different designs i think you may have the two confused...


Just comparing 2 skimmers builders, and the thought that went into designing flow paths. The ORCA is just a great Example of a high end skimmer with a poor design of flow path. Maybe up to 20% of the through/put water sees no bubbles at all. this = poor flow path design. But your right it was a little off topic thats why the ( )s

The ATI BM with the extended Bubble plate Tube, maximizes throughput time because the water/air mixture has to go a longer distances before can leave the skimmer. = Great flow path. Without the extension tube the waters entering the skimmer CAN quickly escape the reaction camber.

Less Micro bubble is sump, more bubble/water contact, longer flow path. Thats make 3 reasons to keep the tube extension. Just trying to understand why anyone would want to remove it. (unless it causes extra turbulence in the neck)

[GSMguy]

Roland you have yet to read my post? you quoted it??? what orca are you talking about?

[GSMguy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11317775#post11317775 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hahnmeister
Yeah, it wasnt a 'for sure' but they were looking into the Hailea I know. Perhaps the response when they posted that told them enough... or, perhaps the falling dollar is preventing even the Chinese pumps from being as attractive either.

If you build it they will come....

[steve the plumb]

Thats my skimmer you are talking about.So far the skimmer works great.What I don't know is how efficient it is but it does produce a hell of a lot more skim mate than my tunze skimmer did.http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z47/stevetheplumb/pics016-1.jpg

[steve the plumb]

I find the skim mate is darker and smells worse than my tunze.My tunze gave me a light watery skim mate.It was never like this.I find the skimmer is working even better http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z47/stevetheplumb/pics019.jpg

[steve the plumb]

You guys should give the skimmer a try before knocking it.I am very happy with ithttp://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z47/stevetheplumb/th_pics021.jpg (http://s194.photobucket.com/albums/z47/stevetheplumb/?action=view&current=pics021.flv)

[GSMguy]

im not knocking it, looks great, I would imagine it kicks butt

[Roland Jacques]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11318579#post11318579 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by GSMguy
Roland you have yet to read my post? you quoted it??? what orca are you talking about?

Sorry, I totaly misunderstood your post. ( Thanks for seting me straight. ill get the exact name.

[steve the plumb]

the wet neck does work at keeping the top half of the skimmer cup clean.I just pulled out crud from it yesterday.This was my tunze you can barley see at the bottom I have some light colored skimmate that was very watery and took forever to produce.That skimmer cost me $808 CDN funds.I didn't pay that much more for my dart skimmer compared to what I got its a joke.http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z47/stevetheplumb/pics003-3.jpg

[Roland Jacques]

dart NW made by ORCA www.protein-skimmer.com

Steve, im not knocking it over all. And besides I knock every skimmer. Theirs no perfect skimmer otherwise there would be no room for improvements.

It just very has a poor flow path. Lets Face it skimmers don't have to be perfect in every way to do a great job. It is still a great value. IMO the flow path just could have been Easily fixed.

[steve the plumb]

Do you think I could fix the skimmer now?Maybe adjust the flow path but I don't see how I could get in there to do that.I am wondering if it would make a big difference in performance.For one all my water going into the sump goes into a filter sock.All my water leaving the sump now some goes into the tank and some goes into the skimmer.I also placed a filter sock at the exit of my skimmer to see if it turns brown or not.It does turn a slight brown but nothing like the filter sock in my overflow return.I was curious to see if dirty water does escape the skimmer.I switched out the 2 socks yesterday and I will take a pic for comparison.

[steve the plumb]

Shaun built another model and made some changes but he tested and found no difference in skimmer performance http://www.protein-skimmer.com/images/customers/446996/gallery/P.LAW%20KW1%20Skimmer%20002.JPG

[hahnmeister]

I doubt many would see a change in performance unless running it on a 500g+ system. Still, the inlet thing is something that would bug me as well... esp for detritus removal... having the inlet on the pump means everything gets at least one pass through the pump, so detritus and solid waste will get pulled out. With the inlet on the bottom chamber, this chamber will most likely become a detritus settling zone, accumulating mulm.

As for how to 'fix' the skimmer you have steve, you can simply run an extension on the inlet pipe so that it terminates right before the pump intake of the dart. BeanAnimal has done this on his DIY 7' tall skimmer. The only trick is... I dont know if you can get into that bottom chamber, or if its been bonded shut.

[ostrow]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11321310#post11321310 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hahnmeister
having the inlet on the pump means everything gets at least one pass through the pump,

Are you saying if my pump is a Maxijet 1200, and I have my entire drain running through it at 2000+gph, all of the water will go through the pump?

You are too smart to say that.

Each Sicce, for example, moves around 500gph. Set up recirc, some of that water will enter from the intake pipe in the skimmer chamber. What %? How can we know. I can't conceive of how to determine what percentage of the water exiting the pump comes from which source. But my point is a pump can only move what a pump can move, anything extra from the T on the intake will just exit without getting whipped by the needles, mesh, etc. It will enter, and some will leave, the skimmer.

I think this "flow path" is largely a red herring. Water enters skimmer, the pumps are going to take in the max they can take in. Rest will exit. Path of exit is below the output, below the diffuser chamber, so all shoudl be well. Current down there should push out detritus. Purge valve enables more rigorous cleaning when needed (but the bigger issue here is a removable diffuser chamber, that option is $$$ and I'm bargaining won't be that big of an issue.)

[hahnmeister]

Well, it is assumed that with a recirculating skimmer, the throughput of the skimmer will be much lower than that of the pump... so yes, 100% of the incoming water CAN be put through the pump at least once. A recirc skimmer with a Sicce (400gph throughput) might only have a throughput of 300gph.

I dont think 'flow path' is so trivial when you consider the bottom of the skimmer could become a large settling chamber.

[steve the plumb]

Hahn the new dart that he built has the water going straight into the pump.I did speak with him about this he did a test on an 8.5" diameter skimmer and he found no difference in performance weather he did the entry the way I have it or seperate.The skimmers performed the same way.

[Creetin]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11300619#post11300619 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hahnmeister

Silly Wisconsin Cheese


I had to make ya enter that one. LOL