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View Full Version : HELP! Huge Indoor Saltwater Lagoon on Beachfront Property?!?


Lagoonytune
12/03/2007, 10:37 PM
I just bought some beachfront property on the Sea of Cortez in Mexico. I'm going to dedicate the bottom floor of the 3-story house we are going to build to a HUGE indoor saltwater lagoon filled with all kinds of local critters. I can pump fresh ocean water directly into the lagoon. Does anyone have any ideas on how to put this all together? I see it in my mind quite clearly--just looking to make it REALITY! :)

Lagoonytune
12/03/2007, 11:00 PM
I attached a picture of the future location of the beach house with the indoor lagoon--its in my gallery. P.S. This is not just a dream--I'm going to make it happen, within the next year and would really appreciate any help you could offer....

spazz
12/03/2007, 11:33 PM
there is alot of things you can do here to save alot of money. the big one is water changes. if you do a 10% water change per day you might not need alot of support equiptment to run your system. you can also use that water to cool your system.

do you have a sketch of your design? will this be open to the sun or will this be inside and use un natural light?

also what size will this system be?

Lagoonytune
12/03/2007, 11:43 PM
Hey Spazz, the only picture I have I posted to my gallery--not sure yet how to post them in the thread but I will try to figure it out. Suffice to say right now all I have is 5000 sq. ft lot on the beach, with permission to do whatever I want (like pumping water to and from the ocean). My wife says I have free reign with the ground floor level (I dont think she realizes yet what she's agreed to haha). I'm thinking maybe a 20-foot diameter circular or oval tank about 6 feet deep, but I'm flexible--just in the planning stage now. So we're talking, what--about 10,000 gallons? This will be an indoor lagoon, with a combination of natural sunlight and unnatural lighting (when it gets dark). The water from the Sea of Cortez is warm and clear--this should be an interesting project, no?

Some of the critters that will definitely be inhabiting the lagoon: lobsters, crabs, oysters, clams, shrimp, morey eels, seabass, halibut, corbina, puffer fish, sardines, needlefish, various rockfish, grouper and maybe a shark or two.... (dont get me started) :)

Kemo484
12/03/2007, 11:49 PM
This store in Houston has a 40,000 gallon indoor lagoon. http://www.aquariumworld.net/ You might be able to get some insite from them. Anyway sounds like a great idea, keep us posted and take lots of pictures.

sin05_omar
12/04/2007, 02:19 AM
Wow... Thats one major project...

Perhaps you could continiously pump fresh seawater to the tank and overflows out to the sea... that way you need not worry about water chemistry,Tempreture.. you can blast the tank with one megawatt worth of lights without worrying about heat. . . ?

Now that will be the ultimate tank... and you could proclaim that your tank has infinate volume.. Not many persons on earth can claim that....

Ps. I know its going to look super weird having two pipes going through your property... But perhaps going underground might solve it? then there is an issue of "might happen" pollution... I believe that can be solved by by simply shutting off the pumps i am sure the system is capable of supporting itself due to the sheer volume you are going for....

Last but not least... I am not sure this idea will get you into trouble with the authorities... do check on that ya...

Best Regards,
Omar

djfrankie
12/04/2007, 03:17 AM
I got an idea.

Since the ocean is right outside your property why don't you buy some diving gear and you can have yourself a real fish tank :-)))

It should be fun!

djfrankie

invincible569
12/04/2007, 06:37 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11309653#post11309653 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Kemo484
This store in Houston has a 40,000 gallon indoor lagoon. http://www.aquariumworld.net/ You might be able to get some insite from them. Anyway sounds like a great idea, keep us posted and take lots of pictures.

The owner is a bit reserved so dont expect much out of him.

Lagoonytune
12/04/2007, 08:01 AM
Yes, I've already scoped out putting the pipes underground--not a problem. Five miles north of here there is a shrimp farm that does the same thing recirculating their water--I got some of my ideas from them. And this is MEXICO, and my wife is high up in the government, so I can do whatever I want--no trouble with "authorities." You can tell by the picture that I don't have a lot of neighbors who are going to complain either.

I don't know why "invincible" says not to expect much because I'm a bit reserved--he doesn't know me. And someone who was a bit reserved would never take on a project like this, would they? Maybe I should get a avatar with a mohawk....

I will post pictures as this becomes reality. Keep the suggestions coming--I appreciate the help!

Greg

steve the plumb
12/04/2007, 08:48 AM
He isn't talking about you he is talking about the owner of that store in Houston.I think invincible is from Houston.

Lagoonytune
12/04/2007, 08:53 AM
Haha you're right Steve. That's funny. Sorry Invincible--just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean that people AREN'T out to get me. I'm still going to get an avatar with a mohawk....

Next week when I go back out to the property I will take some pictures of some of the local critters that I catch in front of my house. Maybe a pic or two from the shrimp farm up the coast so you can see how they use the ocean water....

Greg

steve the plumb
12/04/2007, 09:00 AM
well at least you are saving money on salt water changes.I would go to that farm and take a look at what size pumps they are using.I doubt you will need pumps as large as theres but it will give you an idea.I would however get a pump that can do your entire system in an hour(at least) this way you can pump and change out your entire tank if need be plus you can do easy water changes.You don't even have to do them if you are always pumping fresh sea water in and pumping old tank water out.your water will always be fresh from the sea.I don't think you would need to do that but it would be nice to have that option.No calcium reactor and kalk reactor along with no top off unit just pump and lights.

hatfielj
12/04/2007, 09:21 AM
I'm jealous. Definitely just have continuously circulating water straight from the ocean. You will have the healthiest tank/lagoon anywhere! That is exactly how monterey bay aquarium in california does it. They have a couple of exhibits that gets their water directly from the ocean continuously. The only problem with doing something like that is you have to have a system designed for cleaning out the plumbing on a regular basis. It won't take long for the pipes to get cluttered up with all kinds of stuff and even clog up.
Monterey bay has this missle like thing they shoot through their pipe work from time to time to keep it clean. They also have to hire divers to go out into the bay where their intakes are and chisel away at all the barnacles and algae that grow on the pipes.
It seems like a lot of work, but considering you could get away with no skimmer, no calcium reactors, no heaters, no chillers, no additives or anything, it would still be a lot less work in the long run I think. Good luck and learn how to post pics quick so you can keep us all updated on this! Thanks for sharing!

steve the plumb
12/04/2007, 11:04 AM
depending on the size of pipe and how long the run is you could use a drain cleaning machine.If you have some clean outs placed in certain parts of the run you can do the entire pipe.I don't think you would need larger than 3" pipe.You can probably get enough water in there with 2" pipe.You could use a pool pump to pump the water out back into the ocean since it doesn't require as much pressure.

Lagoonytune
12/04/2007, 11:10 AM
The vertical rise from the ocean to lagoon will be about 25 feet, and the distance from the lagoon to where then intake valve will be underwater in the ocean will be about 80 feet I think--it has to be far enough out to get to the cooler, cleanest water. I don't know if there is some sort of formula on how big a pump or the what the diameter of the pipe will have to be. The outtake probably won't even need a pump--gravity ought to work pretty well. What do you think?

seansx
12/04/2007, 11:28 AM
Hey there! I also live on the sea of cortez! I live in San Carlos..I collect corals, fish and Inverts all from the sea, WITH PERMISSION! Where do you live? Maybe we can work something out.

Lagoonytune
12/04/2007, 11:34 AM
Permission spermission. I've always said that its easier to apologize later than get permission today. Like I said above, my wife is pretty high up in the Sonoran government so I'm not too worried about the "authorities." I'm building this in Kino Bay. (Drive north of San Carlos to Hermosillo, and then west to the Sea of Cortez.) Sure, we could meet up sometime Sean. I really love sportfishing and spearfishing too--I'd love to exchange notes with you. Send me your contact info offline. We're not going to start building this for about another six months--just in the planning stages right now. Take care.

Greg

seansx
12/04/2007, 11:36 AM
Ok. jsut saw ur pictures...i live 2 hours north from me...i dont know what the criters are like up there but the water idea was an idea my father and i had when we lived on the beach here..but then summer came around..the water got churned up alot with the currents and the water was brown in some areas..I dont know how kino is like never been there. But I know the currents in the sea of cortez and you'll need a massive filteration system for the summer. I collect all my stuff scuba diving...all my live rock while diving..and inverts and some reef fish from some tide pools. It's easy and cheap! Should work well for you to. And you will be getting local fish so you wouldn't have to worry about cooling and heating unless you want the system heated during the winter. Which could cost a pretty penny. But over all thats an amazing idea. Maybe we can go diving together sometime collect some corals.

seansx
12/04/2007, 11:37 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11311943#post11311943 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by seansx
Ok. jsut saw ur pictures...i live 2 hours north from me...i dont know what the criters are like up there but the water idea was an idea my father and i had when we lived on the beach here..but then summer came around..the water got churned up alot with the currents and the water was brown in some areas..I dont know how kino is like never been there. But I know the currents in the sea of cortez and you'll need a massive filteration system for the summer. I collect all my stuff scuba diving...all my live rock while diving..and inverts and some reef fish from some tide pools. It's easy and cheap! Should work well for you to. And you will be getting local fish so you wouldn't have to worry about cooling and heating unless you want the system heated during the winter. Which could cost a pretty penny. But over all thats an amazing idea. Maybe we can go diving together sometime collect some corals.

" you live 2 hours north from me" sorry my bad

Wryknow
12/04/2007, 12:16 PM
Well, this is just my $.02 but if it were me I would just build a dedicated greenhouse for this. Use natural sunlight for lighting. Filtration would primarily consist of massive amounts of fresh salt water pumped through the system. I would just run the incoming salt water through a mechanical filter and possibly a UV sterilizer. For the mechanical filter I would be looking at pool filters, probably a couple of very large ones used in line and plan on completely turning over the entire tank volume several times per day. I would then make a surge device for wave action and you'd be in business. This whole project will be relatively inexpensive if you take advantage of your great natural resources.

aastretch64
12/04/2007, 12:41 PM
If you are that close to the ocean, all you really need to do is have two large pumps...one to pump ocean water into your lagoon, and one to pump the lagoon water back to the ocean. (You might have to check the laws in Mexico as i'm sure without testing it is probably illegal to pump anything in the oceans in the US.

HPD Turbo
12/04/2007, 06:45 PM
It is very ilegal, no matter how high your wife is in the Gov, you will have to deal with enviromental ONG, and trust me, you will be going to jail.

Be carefull.

Lagoonytune
12/04/2007, 07:38 PM
HPD-- would it make you feel better if I pumped the water out of the ocean, and then into the sewer? So be it. Sounds easier anyways. But I assure you, regardless, that things are not done in Mexico like they are in the U.S., and it definitely does make a difference who you know (or who you are married to). Thanks for your concern though. :)

reef / aholic
12/04/2007, 11:06 PM
Lagoonytune, make sure you collect some clarion angelfish too!!!

Lagoonytune
12/04/2007, 11:18 PM
Beautiful fish, but not local. The whole idea here is to catch all my own critters right in front of my house. Thanks for the suggestion though! :rollface:

Hey--what do you guys think about making this a network of "tidepools" instead of a lagoon? That way it wouldn't have to be confined to a single geometric shape, but could surround any furnishing we put on that floor? Just brainstorming....

Greg

sin05_omar
12/04/2007, 11:59 PM
aastretch... Two pumps one pumping into the tank and another pumping back to the sea wont work... What if one of the pumps break down.... there will be trouble and due to the volume our freind here is planning... its a one way ticket to double trouble...

All i need is one good pump from the sea---> tank ... and from tank--> sea can be taken care by an enormous overflow...

seansx
12/05/2007, 12:02 AM
Yea HPD Turbo...Mexico is a very different place..who ever has more power can do more things...but Lagoonytune...you need to get some Emperor Angel Fish they are everywhere in the sea of cortez..catching them would be a trick though!

reef / aholic
12/05/2007, 12:03 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11309253#post11309253 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Lagoonytune
I just bought some beachfront property on the Sea of Cortez in Mexico.

Good website on reef-fish in the Sea of Cortez!!!

http://www.coralreefnetwork.com/stender/diving/cabo/cabo.htm

Good book on reef-fish in the Sea of Cortez!!!

Reef Fishes of the Sea of Cortez by By Donald A. Thomson, Lloyd T. Findley, Alex N.

seansx
12/07/2007, 11:23 AM
I agree with Omar...two pumps will just bring more hassle. Just get the one main pump pumping ocena water into the lagoon/tidepools (pretty cool idea) then have a massive overflow with underground tubing (under the sandy beach) back to the ocean. Gravity will work it

seansx
12/07/2007, 11:24 AM
What type of pump are you looking into?

Otto2
12/15/2007, 08:22 AM
Thought this thread was to good to be true. How come no updates?

Gary Majchrzak
12/15/2007, 08:32 AM
Greg- research/Google the lagoon display @ the Waikiki Aquarium in HI. They use natural seawater. It sounds like you're planning something similar. Good luck.

jjk82901
12/15/2007, 11:30 AM
i don't see the point, just go get your lazy a$$ off the couch and go snorkling if all you want is "to catch all my own critter right in front of my house." you are a true example of a person that has too much money and/or power (wife) that gives our hobby a bad reputation (as well as humanity). i hope you grow up some day and think, wow i can just go outside and see the wonders instead of trying to make people think you are important or cool. personally i hope a huricane lands on your house. good luck douche.

virginiadiver69
12/15/2007, 11:51 AM
Sounds like someone has an inferiority complex.

Reefaquariumnut
12/15/2007, 02:35 PM
JJK,

Grow up.

huge1day
12/15/2007, 02:39 PM
why is there always a hater???

Bart

Lagoonytune
12/15/2007, 03:06 PM
If I lived in Montana I would build an indoor trout pond, with acrylic viewing panels, so that I could share the magnificence of wild trout in a controlled setting. But that's just me.

We have to work with what we've got. So we're still in the planning stage here in Kino Bay. Visiting the property today but not building for about another six months. I will take some pictures for y'all.

Merry Christmas Everyone!

Greg

jnarowe
12/15/2007, 04:08 PM
That's a nice spit you are on there. Very cool. GL!

sayn3ver
12/15/2007, 05:09 PM
perfect example of suburban/urban sprawl. Perfectly empty beach in pristine condition and someone feels they have the right to build on it. Nothing like capturing the beauty of nature with somebodies house in the middle of the shot. Why not buy an exsisting structure or build in an already developed section? It's a magnificent view and i can't for the life of me figure out why someone whats to poor cement all over it to build a house.

seems selfish to me.

and in response to jjk82901,

i think the responsible thing to do is what the original poster is setting out to do. It would be an ecological nightmare to have a lagoon full of non-native species considering he is pumping water to and from the ocean. I do not know what kind of water treatment/sewer system is implemented there but even having the water go down the drain still has its risks. I understand people in the US have reef tanks close to the ocean, but if you live in a temperate section I'd imagine the risk goes down due to the organisms not being able to survive the cooler water temperatures. It would be impossible to prevent non native macro algae, coral, fish etc from ever accidentally getting released directly into the ocean.

Lagoonytune
12/15/2007, 10:33 PM
Greetings all. The pristine view Sayn is referring to is 1/8 mile north of a full blown marina that will be constructed later in 2008 (So I'm not going to build on a natural preserve in case you were wondering.) Its called Kino Bay, in Sonora, Mexico. Part of the Escalera Nautica. Check it out on Google or wherever.

A year from now the pristine point you see will all be single family homes on the Sea of Cortez (Viva Progress), regardless of what I do. Best fishing, diving and boating anyone could ever ask for. And almost no one around as you can see from the pictures. Three hours South of Tucson, Arizona (the way I drive).

The whole point of "La Laguna" wll be to share the local sea life with my family and friends, particularly those who would never have a chance to see this anywhere, especially in a controlled setting.

The coolest thing of all, is that because I will just bring in fresh sea water, this project is going to be very inexpensive when you think about it. Free water, fish, coral, other critters (we say "critters" in Arizona), and no need for any of the other usual saltwater aquarium necessities.

Geez. I wish I was rich like JJK said. But I'm just a working guy. I sell health insurance over the phone and internet to the U.S. market, so I live where I want to live, so here I am. All I ever hear about on CNN is stupid Lou Dobbs dogging the "aliens" migrating North--I'm one of the few Gringos sneaking down South I guess. Anyways....

We went down to the property today and it was a bit cold and windy--even down here in Paradise. Grouper fishing pretty good right now (remind me to put a 20-lb black sea bass in the lagoon). The water in front of the lot was clear which tells me that even in the dead of winter we can recirculate effectively without having to go too far offshore for the intake.

Anyways amigos, give me six months to finalize the plan and start construction, and with all the great help I've received here I am sure we will put something pretty interesting together. Yes I will take pictures (but I'm afraid to give my address thanks to a potential unibomber or two on this site.) I appreciate your suggestions and good wishes.

Greg

jnarowe
12/15/2007, 10:55 PM
:lol: yeah, it could be a dream system with very little expense. Our local marine Science center is run virtually the same way, constantly recirculating the water from Liberty Bay, where my store is located.

It's all Northewest stuff of course so even less to deal with. I think I would shy away from the tide-pool idea because it would increase the risk, particularly of crap getting into it and fouling it. But it could be done.

You could turn it into a business too...don't forget that! :D

TandN
12/15/2007, 11:43 PM
wow cant wait for you to starrt this best of luck

mrcrab
12/16/2007, 12:48 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11317326#post11317326 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Lagoonytune

Hey--what do you guys think about making this a network of "tidepools" instead of a lagoon? That way it wouldn't have to be confined to a single geometric shape, but could surround any furnishing we put on that floor? Just brainstorming....

Greg

There's no reason you couldn't go with different levels within the tank. I'd go with something freeform though rather than a geometric shape. I'll see if I can dig up some pics from the Florida Aquarium to give you a better idea of what I mean.

Ooooh...even better, you could put a couple of drains at different levels with actuated valves that would open and close at different times allowing for an incoming and outgoing tide. That way you could also incorporate your tidepools. Lots of possibilities.

And ignore the detractors that have set in. Sounds like a very worthwhile project. Just ignore the trolls.

Otto2
12/16/2007, 08:00 AM
I love this idea and will be following it. I was thinking it was a joke when it went a week and no one was posting anything on it. Look forward to seeing progress. I wouldnt worry about the haters. Seems like every thread I read on RC, there is always one.

WDWDen
12/16/2007, 09:30 AM
I think its a cool idea. My only concern would be sucking up some kind oil or gasoline spill from a boat or somthing. I would suggest running the intake line down deep in the water, being careful not to suck up sand though. I would also suggest running the return line a little farther away from the intake, just to make sure your not pulling in the same water again. Depending on how big your pump line is, you'll probably have to put a mesh on the end, so no fish or anything get sucked into your pump.

Good luck man. It should be a great project.

Reefaquariumnut
12/16/2007, 04:06 PM
Awesome view!! I don't know how I could wake up every morning and then head off to work having to leave that majestic landscape. Good luck with the project.

bristle
12/16/2007, 07:22 PM
The salinity is probably off near the shore and changing during the day.

SasquatchFarmer
07/05/2008, 01:54 PM
Well all, its been about the 6 month mark...is there any progress? I hope to hear great things!

couchpotato300
07/06/2008, 11:01 PM
have you started the build yet. or the build of the house yet?

anything. any new pics or anything

kdblove_99
07/09/2008, 04:23 AM
Old Thread ey?

dougie
07/09/2008, 06:16 AM
sounds great.

Jay Fortay
07/09/2008, 08:27 PM
I've got some ocean front property in Arizona to sell anyone who believes this guy :/

jnarowe
07/09/2008, 08:38 PM
wait 'till the big quake comes...

Solitaryensis
07/09/2008, 09:47 PM
Not too sure how these things work but im going to GUESS that its going to cost you an arm and a leg to set something up to pump water from the beach to your home. Dont forget that you wont be able to take water right on the shore. My guess is that you would need to go out at least 1/8 of a mile. For all that plumbing and electricity (assuming youll get permission to do this) I would think you might be better off running a sump, a couple of tunzes and doing water changes. There are some advantages to doing what you are doing but I just dont see it making sense for a non-commerical application and being very practical. I cant even begin to plan it out in my head. I know the laws are laxed there but I dont think you would want to just run some piping above ground and down the beach. Not saying it cant be done but it SOUNDS like you havent entirely though this through. Either way, good luck

ChaosReefer
07/10/2008, 03:49 PM
Yeah, you're definitely going to want to run the piping out a good distance into the water, otherwise you'll be pulling in a lot of sand and gunk in with the water, and potentially a lot of pollutants. You're also not going to want a return pump into the water. If one fails, flooding will occur. Nor will you want a gravity-fed return system to the ocean. There is the potential for something to swim up the return pipe or clog it up and then your tank will overflow. In fact, I don't think you'll want an always-active pump from the ocean in general.

Running it for maybe 3 or 4 hours a day would be the best bet (with powerheads and other filters on for the rest of the time) will be your best bet, and will minimize the risk. I'd say dumping the excess water into the sewage would probably be the safest thing to do as well. There is always the potential that something foreign to the environment may accidentally get out (unless you're using local rock and sand to aquascape the tank with, which is not only most-likely highly illegal under international law, but it's also very harmful to the enviornment).

On that note, I wish you the best of luck in your endeavour, and if possible, hook a brother up with a link to a realty site for the area! It's been my dream for years and years now to go visit/live in the sea of cortes area. I don't know why.... but I want to...